Anyone have any good DSM- walkthroughs, preferably video?

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chajjohnson

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So my psych residency scrapped our DSM lectures, essentially putting the onus on us to learn the DSM in our free time. Just wondering if anyone knows of any good resources that help to go through the DSM besides just sitting down and trying to read that monster of a book. I learn best from video, but other resources would be welcome. Thanks!

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With respect, the DSM is actually one of the easiest to read books despite its size. The print is large and there is lots of white space and simple checklists. Just read it and stop wasting time looking for more convoluted ways to waste time and money.
 
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I would definitely recommend First Aid for Psychiatry also. It was a must for the shelf exam. It's super easy IMO.
 
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To kind of piggyback on this, any suggestions on structuring reading/learning outside the hospital as an intern? I’ve heard the “read about something you see in one of your patients” suggestion and have tried to do this here and there but feel like I’m not keeping up. I’m also at a loss as to what resource to use since they’re all really good, and I’m not sure how much time I’ll really have to be reading a little bit of Stahl, a little bit of Kaplan/Sadock, a little bit of DSM5, a little bit of the Mass Gen book, a little bit of PRITE review, etc. without burning out. Any thoughts/ideas?
 
To kind of piggyback on this, any suggestions on structuring reading/learning outside the hospital as an intern? I’ve heard the “read about something you see in one of your patients” suggestion and have tried to do this here and there but feel like I’m not keeping up. I’m also at a loss as to what resource to use since they’re all really good, and I’m not sure how much time I’ll really have to be reading a little bit of Stahl, a little bit of Kaplan/Sadock, a little bit of DSM5, a little bit of the Mass Gen book, a little bit of PRITE review, etc. without burning out. Any thoughts/ideas?
Your intern year , IMO learn how to do a good clinical interview, diagnosis, and treat and learn when to admit ER patients and when they can be sent home. But throughout all of residency you have attendings to ask or discuss, after residency you won't, take advantage of them. All of your ideas are good. I am a big fan of Beat the Boards. It would be pricey but if you joined with the seniors in your residency program or another and got the group discount, that would be a good way to learn both for residency, the Prites and for the boards. My first year of residency was awesome in that we all did the non-psych rotations first and then took Step 3 and then started psych. We could focus on all of the non-psych rotations and our PD told us NOT to study for the Prite PGY-1. Most programs aren't set up that way I don't think so one has to both read psych and whatever info from the non-psych rotation at the same time. It's really early in your intern year. What makes you think you aren't keeping up?
 
It's really early in your intern year. What makes you think you aren't keeping up?

Just little things, like not being sure whether a particular patient truly fits the diagnostic criteria for a particular disorder, not really being sure how to teach my med students or answer certain questions they ask me, sometimes not fully being able to answer patients’ questions about medications. Moreso the teaching/being a mentor to med students thing I guess, which I’m a bit self-conscious about since I remember some of my classmates early in MS3 year talking about who were the bad interns vs the good interns.

I’d definitely like to read up more on interviewing and developing clinical acumen during the diagnostic interview. What do you think of the DSM-5 pocket guide (little purple book), or are there better resources?

Yeah, I think it might have been nice to start with most of the off-service stuff so I could truly learn and be comfortable with becoming an intern before I learn how to be a psychiatrist. Alas, my schedule’s a bit of a mish-mash as it likely is in most programs, and most of my off-service stuff is in the second half of the year.
 
Just little things, like not being sure whether a particular patient truly fits the diagnostic criteria for a particular disorder, not really being sure how to teach my med students or answer certain questions they ask me, sometimes not fully being able to answer patients’ questions about medications. Moreso the teaching/being a mentor to med students thing I guess, which I’m a bit self-conscious about since I remember some of my classmates early in MS3 year talking about who were the bad interns vs the good interns.

I’d definitely like to read up more on interviewing and developing clinical acumen during the diagnostic interview. What do you think of the DSM-5 pocket guide (little purple book), or are there better resources?

Yeah, I think it might have been nice to start with most of the off-service stuff so I could truly learn and be comfortable with becoming an intern before I learn how to be a psychiatrist. Alas, my schedule’s a bit of a mish-mash as it likely is in most programs, and most of my off-service stuff is in the second half of the year.

Well it's good that your nonpsych rotations are later. You can focus on psych. If you aren't sure on diagnosis, the pocket DSM 5 in your pocket- perfect for on the spot. I started at a brand new program and we didn't have to teach med students. It was actually outpatient first. At my second program (I switched my PGY 3 ) interns didn't teach students, so that would be tough. Be nice to the students. I hated the "mean" residents. I tried to help med students with questions I recalled from the shelf exam, that's what they were most concerned about. I carried Stahls prescriber guide with me and still have it with me when I work and if I am prescribing a med I don't usually prescribe or I'm not sure if a certain dose I want to prescribe comes in that dose or if I need to write it as a higher dose and take half . Pull your Stahls or whatever book you are using for psychopharm that fits in your pocket out with patients and med students is my advice, you can read aloud to your patient and let the patient see the information as well, a lot of patients are concerned about sedation or weight gain and Stahls has a great diagram for both of those plus side effects , starting doses. They will get the needed information and you will learn.
You are just starting. You are an intern. If you knew all there was to know, you wouldn't need to be an intern. This is the time to learn and grow. Unless your attendings are criticizing you, I wouldn't stress. And don't compare yourself to the other residents. I was the superstar at my first program and fast forward, I am trying to pass the psych certification board for the THIRD time and I am dying to switch to another field. I had done a ton of psych electives so it was so easy for me intern year.

If your program allows, ask an attending or senior resident to watch you do an initial eval and provide constructive feedback, and watch your attendings and senior residents and see how they do it, watch the patient as your attending or senior resident is interviewing a patient, how does the patient respond? But in the end you will and should develop your own style. You need to get x info while building a rapport with the patient. Your style may be different from others. My style was different from what others did, but it was mine. I personally let the patient talk for 20 minutes if the patient was open, some patients have been dying for someone to truly listen to them, and they told me a ton of the information I needed and whatever information they didn't give me I would ask in the next 25 minutes if it took that much time. If they told me something painful I would say "that must have been difficult" if they overcame an addiction or adversity, I would say that was a great accomplishment.
The hardest part for me was when the patient would ramble on and on and I didn't want to be rude but in reality they probably could have gone on and on for hours and I didn't have time for that so I had to learn to say, that's important and when we meet later, we can discuss that more. With patients who aren't so forthcoming, I tried to help them relax. I would tell them that it was ok to be nervous, ask them to take a few deep breaths and breathe with them. I would tell them most patients were nervous in this situation to normalize it for them but explain that I was asking questions in order to best help them. For the patients who were not willing to be interviewed, I would say I understand you have been asked these questions or I understand you are tired (if they are playing asleep or even sleeping), but I really want to help you, I will make this as brief as possible if you would like and then you can go back to bed. It's all about making the patient the most comfortable. And let there be pauses. Sometimes you get the most important information if you just wait a few minutes and the patient just blurts out key info that they wouldn't have if you just kept going down your checklist. I think there are books and probably you-tube videos on how to interview or maybe get together with your fellow interns and practice being the psychiatrist and patient if you think that would help.
I had a patient suicide early in my second year of residency, so did two other residents. The other residents appeared fine. I had a really difficult time and it was apparent to my attendings. My PD at the time said I HAD to see a therapist when I wasn't "getting over it" soon enough (I had realized prior to this I wanted to do FP )and I learned so much about therapy by being a therapy patient. I saw one therapist who was AWFUL and learned what not to do and the second therapist was a psychiatrist who did psychoanalysis and it was a great fit. A lot of residents in my program ended up going to therapy. My psychiatrist said it was the norm when he trained for pretty much all of the residents in his program to be in therapy and he was. Psychiatry seems to be trending more toward med management and less to therapy but you do have to do x amount of cases in each therapy modality, so maybe consider therapy to deal with being a resident or any other issues you may have.

It's awesome that you are trying to learn, but be gentle with yourself. You are just starting out. If one could just jump to attending status without a residency I could just be a FP or Cardiologist tomorrow, but the point of residency is to learn , you aren't expected to know everything August of PGY-1. The DSM IV was a lot easier than DSM 5 IMO with all of the different modifiers to each disorder. What you are doing now sounds great. If your program has a strong didactic program, read ahead on the topic and ask questions. Like you mentioned, pick a patient you saw that day and review the diagnosis, the differentials. the med you picked and maybe some about that whole class of meds. I personally love Beat The Boards. And one thing I didn't do during residency which I wish I would have is to also make time for you, hang out with your friends who aren't in the medical field, don't stop doing all of your hobbies. What I did to help anxiety was swim. We tell patients to exercise, I followed that advice. I like swimming, so I joined a gym and swam and it gave some of the stress a place to go. Try to live a semi-balanced life, not easy as a resident, but important. What I DID do that I thought helped was about 2 weeks into a rotation was to pull my attending aside and ask for constructive criticism. That was so helpful and it shows your attending you want to improve.
I hope this was somewhat helpful. I hope someone else chimes in and adds some advice.
 
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So my psych residency scrapped our DSM lectures, essentially putting the onus on us to learn the DSM in our free time. Just wondering if anyone knows of any good resources that help to go through the DSM besides just sitting down and trying to read that monster of a book. I learn best from video, but other resources would be welcome. Thanks!

I really like the gmeded.com videos by Michael First. Watch the metastructure video first.
 
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Wow, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I’ve been lucky to have attendings and seniors who sit in and listen when interns are doing evals and offer constructive feedback. I do still struggle with particularly difficult patients, namely those who feel they don’t need care and can be hostile, and who on top of that don’t have much support so it’s difficult to get reliable collateral, etc. I try my best, but I just don’t know what to say to them sometimes or how to approach them....at that point, I usually just ask my attending for advice, but I sometimes can’t help but think “a better or cleverer intern may have actually thought of something more creative.” It’s discouraging at times like these when it’s like I’m supposed to be “owning” my patients, but I really don’t know how to approach some of them. What’s more frustrating is that I feel like I’m still very slowly settling into my responsibilities whereas some of my co-interns (who I know have a similar level of experience as me when it comes to their med school psych electives) seemed to hit the ground running and knew how to be interns right away. I know it’s not helpful to compare but it’s hard not to. I appreciate the suggestion about therapy — lots of residents in my program have therapists as well, so I hear, and I’m actually seeing one for a consultation very soon! Hopefully that’ll be helpful.

Ahh, sorry for all the rambling, but all that to say your response was very thoughtful and helpful. :)
 
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Wow, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I’ve been lucky to have attendings and seniors who sit in and listen when interns are doing evals and offer constructive feedback. I do still struggle with particularly difficult patients, namely those who feel they don’t need care and can be hostile, and who on top of that don’t have much support so it’s difficult to get reliable collateral, etc. I try my best, but I just don’t know what to say to them sometimes or how to approach them....at that point, I usually just ask my attending for advice, but I sometimes can’t help but think “a better or cleverer intern may have actually thought of something more creative.” It’s discouraging at times like these when it’s like I’m supposed to be “owning” my patients, but I really don’t know how to approach some of them. What’s more frustrating is that I feel like I’m still very slowly settling into my responsibilities whereas some of my co-interns (who I know have a similar level of experience as me when it comes to their med school psych electives) seemed to hit the ground running and knew how to be interns right away. I know it’s not helpful to compare but it’s hard not to. I appreciate the suggestion about therapy — lots of residents in my program have therapists as well, so I hear, and I’m actually seeing one for a consultation very soon! Hopefully that’ll be helpful.

Ahh, sorry for all the rambling, but all that to say your response was very thoughtful and helpful.
There are no black and whites in psychiatry. One patient with 10 psychiatrists, they may disagree on diagnosis if it's not clear cut and often disagree on med and what kind of treatment. I saw it a lot during case conferences at my first residency. Motivational interviewing can be helpful with the patients with a substance abuse or gambling disorder or with patients who lack insight or who have insight but don't want meds. I used in other rotations when a patient didn't want to exercise or comply with diet. I think every physician should use it. Often talking to the nurses is a great way to get collateral information, they see the patient 8-12 hours.

For the hostile patients it's important to see how you feel towards them and deal with it so you can provide the best patient care. For patients who are absolutely psychiotic or coming down off of an illicit, I am polite, try to do the initial eval, but if they are unwilling to cooperate, I say that I am sorry they feel xyz and I will be back tomorrow and hope that we can talk for a longer period of time and come up with a plan to best help them. I try really hard to establish a partnership with my patients. I often say to the higher functioning patients, we can try x and I think it would be helpful because but it has potential side effects or we can try y . And I make it clear that if it doesn't work or the side effects are awful, it's not set in concrete and we can change.

I did a TRI after taking a year off because I didn't match into psych AND most of my 4th year rotations were psych electives and 2 optho rotations because those were allowed to be surgery electives (LOVED surgery but couldn't stand the freezing OR) and I knew that these rotations didn't force you to go into the OR. I used an intern handbook, it was REALLY scary. My DO TRI was not like the MD transitional years from what I have heard and I was on my own for most rotations. There was NO senior resident for inpatient IM, no team. I rounded on the patients in the am and early noon and then the IM Dr came in and we went over the patients. If the patients I had had a significant problem, I had to figure out what to do. I could call the attending, some were awesome some not and didn't reply. We could go to the senior ICU resident but they were usually busy. For rapid responses on days when I was the house officer, it was me myself and I. I felt like the WORST intern ever. I was SO scared every day I was the house officer, but I used my intern survival guide and learned fast. I was pretty OCD and overordered tests, but I caught a few zebras that would have been missed. But during the interval between submitting my ROL and waiting to match ( I didn't think I would), my DME , senior residents and other interns said I was actually one of the better TRIs and I could totally do another specialty. So your impression of yourself may be too harsh.

Psych was MUCH less stressful in this aspect. Keep doing what you are doing. They are YOUR patients, BUT you have attendings for back up.

In my second program, I have no idea why because there are no longer oral boards Thank God, in MD psych residencies, but we had to do mock interviews . You walk into the room and get zero info on the patient. There are two psychiatrists sitting at a table watching you and a patient sitting in a chair. 30 min for the interview and the patient leaves and 30 min to present and discuss with the attendings from a local residency program. My patient was SO sedated and kept falling asleep. She was either coming down hard off of a stimulant, or catching up on sleep after a manic episode or too medicated. I honestly had to spend half of my 30 minutes waking her up. I did the best I could. I had 15 minutes to collect info from a poor historian who just wanted to sleep. In real life I would have tried for 5 min and tried later in the day and maybe the following day. I thought it was really unfair and a poor patient to pick. But I did my best. They failed me and said I was blaming the patient, I said no actually I am blaming whoever selected this patient :) . I HATED my program, didn't care what they thought and the consequences of failing this would be to do 12 supervised interviews the following year, but I was a PGY4, so it didn't apply to me. I told the attendings that I did the best I could with the time I had and honestly I wouldn't spend 30 min at the current time because the patient was so sedated and would come back later. They were really unsympathetic because I didn't collect all of the information, but it wasn't possible. I was a little bold and said ok, so for educational purposes, how would you have dealt with this patient. Silence. I asked again, and no reply from either psychiatrist.

Try to improve YOU daily. Maybe your other interns ARE ahead of you maybe not, but keep learning and growing. I am sure by graduation you will have all you need and more to be an amazing psychiatrist.
 
Just little things, like not being sure whether a particular patient truly fits the diagnostic criteria for a particular disorder, not really being sure how to teach my med students or answer certain questions they ask me, sometimes not fully being able to answer patients’ questions about medications. Moreso the teaching/being a mentor to med students thing I guess, which I’m a bit self-conscious about since I remember some of my classmates early in MS3 year talking about who were the bad interns vs the good interns.

I’d definitely like to read up more on interviewing and developing clinical acumen during the diagnostic interview. What do you think of the DSM-5 pocket guide (little purple book), or are there better resources?

Yeah, I think it might have been nice to start with most of the off-service stuff so I could truly learn and be comfortable with becoming an intern before I learn how to be a psychiatrist. Alas, my schedule’s a bit of a mish-mash as it likely is in most programs, and most of my off-service stuff is in the second half of the year.
You can generally shoehorn any patient into one of several different DSM categories. That won't help you treat the patient. Hopefully your program will teach you to think as a psychopathologist/phenomenologist.
 
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You can generally shoehorn any patient into one of several different DSM categories. That won't help you treat the patient. Hopefully your program will teach you to think as a psychopathologist/phenomenologist.

I have an outpatient attending right now who I really respect and is very astute clinically but he is also a little obsessed with making interviews as efficient as possible in eliciting DSM-V criteria. I don't really understand the point of prioritizing this over a good phenomenological grasp of the case, and I don't even think he believes DSM diagnoses are dingen-an-sich or anything; he has definitely set some of Kendler's stuff on the heterogeneity of MDD as readings.

If you're not going to reify these constructs, why get hot and bothered about the usually very arbitrary details? I get why researchers need to be very rigid about it, but I struggle to see the point clinically, especially if your documentation conveys a better formulation.
 
To kind of piggyback on this, any suggestions on structuring reading/learning outside the hospital as an intern? I’ve heard the “read about something you see in one of your patients” suggestion and have tried to do this here and there but feel like I’m not keeping up. I’m also at a loss as to what resource to use since they’re all really good, and I’m not sure how much time I’ll really have to be reading a little bit of Stahl, a little bit of Kaplan/Sadock, a little bit of DSM5, a little bit of the Mass Gen book, a little bit of PRITE review, etc. without burning out. Any thoughts/ideas?

I recommend to our interns that try and get through at least two books in their intern year. The first is Stahl's to get a general grasp of psychopharmacology. I have bones to pick with this text, but I do think it lays a solid foundation for understanding the basics of pharmacology that you can then layer on more nuanced (and evidence-based) discussion of. The second I recommend is Goodwin and Guze's Psychiatric Diagnosis. This is a pretty basic text that is, in effect, a slightly more interesting overview of diagnostic criteria and general ways to think about symptoms and diagnoses. It's a pretty basic text that I wouldn't recommend for upper level residents, but as a brand new PGY-1 it's a nice little text that is easy to read and can, again, help build the foundation for thinking about psychiatric diagnosis in more nuanced ways.

I used to - and still do - find papers when I come across a clinical question that I'm unsure about or have a topic that I want to learn more about. This doesn't require a lot of time, and you may be surprised at how much knowledge you can pick up simply by reading review papers on topics that you're interested in or are relevant to the care of your patients in the moment. You will, of course, still need to read or intentionally learn about more obscure conditions, but this approach will at least give you a solid foundation for the things that you're most likely to see clinically.
 
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