Anyone here interested in international health/medicine?

[SilverBandCry!]

And if so, why?

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[photo_girl07]

And if so, why?

i wanna volunteer with Doctors without borders and go anywhere...after i graduate I plan on going to rural areas in central america, south asia, and africa (hopefully...) I wanna learn about new cultures, languages, lifestyles, etc. And I think I have been so blessed- I need to give back.

Also, I am a photographer and the best places to take pics are the places you have yet to discover....so we'll see how it all pans out. Got my fingers crossed

-PG

 

[amathew]

And if so, why?

i am cuz
a) I've lived internationally for 11 years so I have sort of a bond with the problems in smaller countries
b) i've recently volunteered at a rehabilitation center in south asia and a mission trip in mexico and personally feel the sense of fulfillment of helping those without much help is far greater than working in the US and not feeling too appreciated
c) I've majored in International Health within Public Health to learn about alternative medicine and health care in other countries

all reasons kinda pushing me to pursue international health...

 

[DropkickMurphy]

The only aspect of international health that interests me is foreign emergency medical services, particularly in Germany.

 

[akademiks1989]

I want to practice in Iraq when it is rebuilt. I know Arabic, my family is from Iraq, and I want to help make and shape Iraq, alongside countless others.

 

[Dr.TobiasFünke]

And if so, why?

I'm not

 

[blackle]

I've been a human rights nerd forever, and that kind of developed into an interest in medicine. I used to be way more interested in the politics and writing side of things, but along with that, I like the idea of having the skills and training to do something concrete about the things in the world that piss me off.

 

[akademiks1989]

I've been a human rights nerd forever, and that kind of developed into an interest in medicine. I used to be way more interested in the politics and writing side of things, but along with that, I like the idea of having the skills and training to do something concrete about the things in the world that piss me off.

Good for you!!!

Do you know any knowledge that may be an asset to you in international medicine?

I speak Chaldean, Arabic, English, and Spanish, which are pretty big languages for areas concentrated with those areas that need assistance...

 

[njcaldwell]

I want to work in North Africa/Middle East. I spent one month in sudan and fell in love with the people, and saw a huge need for people to go. I want to practice medicine in rural and impoversihed areas.

 

[kazbegi]

Yeah, I'm interested in international health, mainly as it seems to be an area that deserves a huge amount of attention. You could even argue that it's a moral imperative for the US medical community to take a more vested interest in the well-being of not only Americans, but of people around the globe in general. Despite the few posts so far on this thread, I think there are a lot of students out there who are interested in international health (which, more appropriately, could be called "poor-people health", as it rarely refers to health of UK or Japanese citizens, etc) - either from a summer experience or medical rotation abroad in a poor community for a few weeks/months, or (more rarely), because they come from a family background from a developing country.

We need to harness this interest and "save the world" energy into something that can really create positive change. International health is seductive to some as it can imply policy-level work that *could* save or better millions of lives. But I'd suggest that all of us interested in international health also consider a simpler path - just reversing the brain drain and moving to, say, Niger, Honduras, etc and practicing medicine. Maybe not forever, but for an extended period of time. Thoughts?

 

[nolamd2b]

You could even argue that it's a moral imperative for the US medical community to take a more vested interest in the well-being of not only Americans, but of people around the globe in general.

But I'd suggest that all of us interested in international health also consider a simpler path - just reversing the brain drain and moving to, say, Niger, Honduras, etc and practicing medicine. Maybe not forever, but for an extended period of time. Thoughts?

I second that! My goal is to spend 3 months a year or so outside of the US and if I can ever get my loans under control, I would do it for much longer. Being a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills just doesn't excite me as much as treating a kid with tetanus in a Nairobi slum-no offense to the future plastic surgeons out there

 

[honeypot]

I am. I spent a lot of time in India (helped implement HIV/AIDS education program in village schools and volunteered at an AIDS clinic in India, Tanzania and in Boston.) And I've had really great experiences, like learning about the healthcare system in developing countries and so many different approaches to medicine. I am pretty sure I want to at least get involved in Doctors without Borders.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

While my decision to become a doctor is new, I've always wanted to find ways to get to other countries and assist directly in the survival rates of newborns and mothers. If I don't get into medical school (MD or DO), I'll go to midwifery school and use those skills where ever they take me. My husband is nervous about it but it's not like it's happening tomorrow.

Also, I read the blog of Joanne Jorrissen, an American CNM who also felt compelled to help out in other countries and went to midwifery school specifically to do so. She found herself at the Bottom Maternity Hospital in Malawi, Africa, and she writes in her blog about her adventures in catching babies, in working with the local mothers, the abhorrent lack of adequate prenatal care and how they're making the most of what they have, which isn't a lot at all.

I started the Malawi project which is coming to a close now but one of the compelling reasons that I chose medicine was with the fantasy (it's all a fantasy until it actually happens) of going to Malawi and helping some of these mothers and babies. I might not find myself in Malawi ever, but I will always focus on providing excellent (read, valuing the experience of my patients, and not just whether they survive) maternity care to women in populations who don't typically have access to anything more than the basic care, if even that. It's important. I'd rather make nothing and give something worth while, than make bank and have some cushy job in a cushy office and never feel like anything I do impacts anyone.

 

[morganlefay]

Me too! I have always wanted to travel and see new countries, learn about different cultures, etc...
I also want to do Doctors without Borders (or Medicines sans Frontieres hehe) because I feel that it's a responsibility for those who have the ability to be doctors to give back.
Bad part is that I think I want to do too much. Can't do international health/policy, do research, and be a teaching physician all in one lifetime!? Ah well. I'll figure it out eventually.

btw, Doula2OB, what you're doing is absolutely amazing. I've been working at an GYN clinic for the past 9 months (ha.) and have so much respect for midwives and doulas. Also, my youngest brother was born at home, with a midwife, so I know firsthand how amazing they are. Pregnant women aren't sick! They don't need to give birth in a hospital! Natural is best. You girls rock

 

[DoctorPardi]

I would be interested in doing some type of work overseas after I graduate or after I complete my residency or both. I don't know that I would want to work overseas indefinitely, but I hope I can help out a little every year, maybe a month overseas or something like that.

 

[tandski]

I have been interested in it for awhile, mostly stemming from my time in other countries. I enjoy embracing other cultures and learning of other people. I have seen poverty in many forms (especially in health care) but never have been able to do all that I wish I could. I do not plan to live year round in a foriegn country but I will dedicate a good portion of my time abroad.
Hmmm....only 5 more years till I have that darn MD....(hopefully!)

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I've been a human rights nerd forever, and that kind of developed into an interest in medicine. I used to be way more interested in the politics and writing side of things, but along with that, I like the idea of having the skills and training to do something concrete about the things in the world that piss me off.

Good for you. At least one of us (meaning between you and myself) has an interest in the abstract idea that is "human rights".


EDIT: BTW, that wasn't meant in a patronizing manner....seriously....good for you.

 

[notdeadyet]

You could even argue that it's a moral imperative for the US medical community to take a more vested interest in the well-being of not only Americans, but of people around the globe in general.

Let's put some skin in the game:

1. Appoint 10% of U.S. medical school spots to folks from other countries.
The main goal in development, medical or otherwise, is sustainability. One phyisican from a developing nation given excellent training and support from an American medical school, who then returns home and spends his career there, caring for his people and training others? This is worth far more than twenty U.S. physicians rotating in and out to clinics and hotspots for six months at a time.

2. Donate funds instead of time.
Instead of working at a practice for some number of years, then pulling up stakes to work for six months in South America, to return to work for a few years and look to volunteer abroad again, let's try a different approach. Figure your six month salary (say, $90,000) and donate that to an NGO working in the location of your choice full time. This is an option that we can all do without ever leaving home. There are a few big ticket organizations like MSF and the like that need physicians, but these are expensive programs with sometimes dubious long-term returns. The real return on investment in development programs is investing in building up local infrastructure, training, education and expertise so that these countries do not have to be reliant on Americans for help each step of the way.

I respect development work and what they do. I taught in the former soviet union in the early 90s and know what good you can do. But I also know that while hands-on development work has a certain sex appeal, it sometimes comes at the cost of projects that have better benefits. There are many stories of doctors and well-wishers coming down to give two weeks of innoculations to groups of people when a much bigger impact would have been made by the building of a well, or having a local nurse trained at the national nursing college.

If we really want to take a long-term interest in the well-being of the international community, we can do as much (or much more) with our physician pocketbook at home than we can with our time abroad.

 

[notdeadyet]

Just to make sure I'm clear here, I'm not disdainful of anyone's good intentions. I would just love to see us give where it counts.

And I'm as guilty as the next. I've spent about two years volunteering abroad and am pretty good about donating. But would I give up 10% of U.S. medical seats to train doctors from the countries we're trying to help? Would I cut down my chances of being accepted to a medical school for the sake of world health? I don't know. And I think very few premeds could give an unqualified yes.

 

[DoctorPardi]

Let's put some skin in the game:

1. Appoint 10% of U.S. medical school spots to folks from other countries.
The main goal in development, medical or otherwise, is sustainability. One phyisican from a developing nation given excellent training and support from an American medical school, who then returns home and spends his career there, caring for his people and training others? This is worth far more than twenty U.S. physicians rotating in and out to clinics and hotspots for six months at a time.

2. Donate funds instead of time.
Instead of working at a practice for some number of years, then pulling up stakes to work for six months in South America, to return to work for a few years and look to volunteer abroad again, let's try a different approach. Figure your six month salary (say, $90,000) and donate that to an NGO working in the location of your choice full time. This is an option that we can all do without ever leaving home. There are a few big ticket organizations like MSF and the like that need physicians, but these are expensive programs with sometimes dubious long-term returns. The real return on investment in development programs is investing in building up local infrastructure, training, education and expertise so that these countries do not have to be reliant on Americans for help each step of the way.

I respect development work and what they do. I taught in the former soviet union in the early 90s and know what good you can do. But I also know that while hands-on development work has a certain sex appeal, it sometimes comes at the cost of projects that have better benefits. There are many stories of doctors and well-wishers coming down to give two weeks of innoculations to groups of people when a much bigger impact would have been made by the building of a well, or having a local nurse trained at the national nursing college.

If we really want to take a long-term interest in the well-being of the international community, we can do as much (or much more) with our physician pocketbook at home than we can with our time abroad.

I think these are all good ideas. I think instead of having 10% of America's doctors go overseas, we could try to accept a certain number of people from these communities to learn at American medical schools.

This would have to be acheived in a number of steps:
1) Develop a method to find appropriate candidates from the international community that is in need of a doctor. Some type of intelligence and baby MCAT type test could be used for this purpose.
2) There would have to be a system to train these people to become good students, near the medical school level. While in their own country, they would learn basic sciences with the help of professors over the internet or something along those lines.
3) After a given period of time, they would go to a medical school and participate in classes and tests just like other applicants, but would possibly be given a different degree. Maybe a degree specifically to be used in their native country. Because of the fact that they would not have the benefit of k-12, and a regular undergrad education they probably would not be as academically sound as American medical students, so it may not be plausible to award a normal MD. Also this would guarentee if they are to practice medicine, they would practice in their own country.
4) Allow them to go back to their own country and practice medicine year round. They could then help select new people to be taken through this process.

This is of course, is rather out there lol. I don't know that anything like this could ever happen, but it seems like the best way to serve specific populations is to have a member of that population as the "server". Also this would only work if a number of medical schools would have an additional 1-5 spots open each year for these special students.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

How about we stop letting foreigners into our med schools? If they want to be docs let them go to their own medical schools (India's got what? 70 of them? You can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a grad of the New Delhi Medical School and Beauty College) or go to the the Carribean. The answer isn't to screw over our own qualified people in the interest of a bunch of countries that are simply economically, politically and socially being selected for elimination because of their own shortcomings. I hate to come across as an elitist but letting a few docs from Darfur or Mogadishu into our medical schools isn't going to make one rat's ass bit of difference. Maybe once some of you gain some real medical experience you will realize there is something called non-viability and it doesn't just apply to single patients in the end stages of cancer, but sometimes to whole groups of people and cultures. Of course I think a lot of this apparent wide-eyed optimism will be replaced with a more realistic view once you are no longer concerned with what the ADCOM's think of you.

 

[notdeadyet]

I hate to come across as an elitist but letting a few docs from Darfur or Mogadishu into our medical schools isn't going to make one rat's ass bit of difference.

If a US trained physician returning to their country of origin doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference, then an American trained doctor volunteering for a few months at a time makes a good bit less.

Maybe once some of you gain some real medical experience you will realize there is something called non-viability and it doesn't just apply to single patients in the end stages of cancer, but sometimes to whole groups of people and cultures.

Ah. With that assumption, the whole notion of any kind of international development sort of goes out the window.

And also explains the interest in Germany... ;-) I joke.

 

[Rainman84]

Let's put some skin in the game:


2. Donate funds instead of time.
If we really want to take a long-term interest in the well-being of the international community, we can do as much (or much more) with our physician pocketbook at home than we can with our time abroad.

ok, so i agree with most of what you have to say and i understand you have a lot of authority and experience behind your stance, but I still think this is off track. If the only way you think about these problems is in numbers (how many units of vaccine, how much infection rate is lowered by having more money for this or that) , then yes throwing money at NGOs would probably help. But I think people interested in international medicine have more than a passing oh-I'll-write-a-check attitude about public health. Personally, I think that a doctor's time is just as valuable... I don't see why doctors should shy away from taking a leadership role in global health. Sitting behind a desk writing checks... that doesn't exactly show a lot of solidarity with the underserved. Ok, i can continue to rant. but i won't.

i think that any effort to help improve global health is great, but I wouldn't want anyone to think that their effort in some regard (time, money, advocacy, education) is less valuable than something else. How many people do nothing?

 

[notdeadyet]

If the only way you think about these problems is in numbers (how many units of vaccine, how much infection rate is lowered by having more money for this or that) , then yes throwing money at NGOs would probably help.

Yes, this is a highly debated point. Can development work be reduced to numbers, like business and most quantitative fields? The current trend that's found in development is a very qualified "yes". Reduction of mortality, reduction of transmission, etc.

But I think people interested in international medicine have more than a passing oh-I'll-write-a-check attitude about public health.

I do not doubt this at all. I think most all folks who are interested in international medicine are very much moral and compassion-drive people. My question is whether or not writing-a-check is more effective for public health.

Contact an NGO currently handling hands-on health projects in subsaharan Africa or Latin America and tell them you can either volunteer six months of your time or $90K. I think you'll find most will opt for the latter. $90K can do a lot of good down there.

 

[notdeadyet]

I don't see why doctors should shy away from taking a leadership role in global health. Sitting behind a desk writing checks... that doesn't exactly show a lot of solidarity with the underserved.

The question is this: would those underserved prefer your solidarity or funding? That's probably an easy one. The one I struggle with is which is ultimately more important?

i think that any effort to help improve global health is great, but I wouldn't want anyone to think that their effort in some regard (time, money, advocacy, education) is less valuable than something else. How many people do nothing?

Couldn't agree more. Anything is better than nothing. My month at a clinic in Guadalajara helped some folks. I just struggle with the issue of whether or not I had the most valuable impact doing that. It's an issue of return and an issue of motivation.

You find a lot of times in development work that everyone want to teach English but no one wanted to build indoor plumbing. And everyone wants to be in the field helping, when that might not be the most important impact you can have, though granted it's the most personally satisfying. This is what I have trouble with.

 

[MD-To Be]

And if so, why?

I want to get involved with a Christian medical missionary organization so I can do my two favorite things at the same time; working in medicine and sharing the gospel!

 

[DoctaJay]

I'm more so on the medical missions/evangelism side of things, but I'm pretty sure I would love overseas medical work because the people to me are much more appreciative. Where I visited, most didn't care who you were, or if you happened to make a mistake, they just wanted help, and they would walk for miles to get it. And the satisfaction is much greater overseas for me.

 

[christvida]

I also want to become involved in medical missions. I love to go on missions where we not only minister to physical needs but also spiritual needs. I'm really hoping that I'm able to do something this summer in the field, but I need to see how things go. Right now it is just one day at a time...applications, interviews, and so on.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

How about we stop letting foreigners into our med schools? If they want to be docs let them go to their own medical schools (India's got what? 70 of them? You can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a grad of the New Delhi Medical School and Beauty College) or go to the the Carribean. The answer isn't to screw over our own qualified people in the interest of a bunch of countries that are simply economically, politically and socially being selected for elimination because of their own shortcomings. I hate to come across as an elitist but letting a few docs from Darfur or Mogadishu into our medical schools isn't going to make one rat's ass bit of difference. Maybe once some of you gain some real medical experience you will realize there is something called non-viability and it doesn't just apply to single patients in the end stages of cancer, but sometimes to whole groups of people and cultures. Of course I think a lot of this apparent wide-eyed optimism will be replaced with a more realistic view once you are no longer concerned with what the ADCOM's think of you.

A. I doubt you would have the stones to walk into an interview with this post taped to your chest, and then you castigate these pre-med students who care about important issues for being "concerned with what ADCOMs think of you."

B. I don't care how many years you've been a paramedic or EMT or whatever you did that you are so proud of -- the fact that you think that "whole groups of people and cultures" are "non-viable" has nothing to do with your vast "medical experience."
I know plenty of people with alot of actual "medical experience" (as doctors) who don't think that countries affected by years of drought, civil wars, and restrictive trade law are being naturally selected for destruction.




For all the rest of you that give a d@mn: keep it up, this idea that cynicism and medicine go hand in hand is a self-fufilling prophecy.

 

[Hednej]

Wow, this thread has some of the longest answers on this forum which kind of makes me happy because I guess people care. I want to do international medicine/Public health because I've lived in a third world country and it's a whole differnt universe. Some people really don't get the same kind of treatment we get here. There is so much that needs to be done and one person can't do it alone, so I might join Doctors Without Borders.

 

[Canadoc]

Hey all,

Yeah, INternational health is a much neglected, brushed under the table issue, that everyone cares about but nobody actually gets anything done about. Having grown up in Zimbabwe, Scotland, The Seychelles, Newfoundland, and now Edmonton, I've had a lot of experience with different healthcare systems.

You learn to appreciate the things we take for granted, like running water in a HOSPITAL. I've seen people who do not even have MD's performing surgeries, because that's the best their country could economically to train them, is a one year science course. It makes you realize that we have it good despite our problems, and makes you really want to get out there and do everything you can, no matter how small you might think it is. So yes, international health is my passion, and that is what I plan to do with my MD, once i get (fingers crossed) to a medical school. Rock on everyone else who wants to make a difference in this world of ours.