Anyone interested in tabulating residencies from most toughet to most easy?

[DoctorMom78]

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Hey, I give you a ton of credit, If I wasn't such a horrific multitasker, I'd be all for FP... Not rural though... I'm a city boy at heart.

LOL! Thanks! I am the queen of multi-tasking.😎 That is the only way I am going to get through med school with four kids and a husband to worry about. I wouldn't want to do FM in a non-rural area because I would be afraid I would just be writing referrals and seeing people for flu shots. I am a country girl at heart and have always wanted to live in the country and the challenge of rural medicine really appeals to me. It is just the perfect fit I guess.🙂

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

Is this really true? Is it relatively useless for these students who are taking the USMLE step 1 to do so?, or are they getting earlier interviews than those waiting to submit USMLE step2 scores. Do those results come in early during the app. process, or before the application process begins? Just wondering if it is worth it to even bother with step one.

 

[DrBowtie]

Is this really true? Is it relatively useless for these students who are taking the USMLE step 1 to do so?, or are they getting earlier interviews than those waiting to submit USMLE step2 scores. Do those results come in early during the app. process, or before the application process begins? Just wondering if it is worth it to even bother with step one.

Step 1 is in between 2nd and 3rd year. You apply during your 4th.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Most people take step 1 USMLE because they aren't sure whether they will be doing a DO or MD residency. As stated, some programs won't accept COMLEX so when applying they take Step 1. Most who do well on step 1, do not take step 2 until after they've applied to residency (at least that is the rule of thumb I've heard) because some are afraid they might do worse then their previous score. Others didn't do so hot on Step 1 so they take it early. Some programs don't even make you take USMLE step 2, they just want to see your USMLE step 1 scores to compare apples to apples, so to speak.

I am not sure if a residency that will not accept COMLEX will "accept" you taking comlex step 3 in lieu of the full USMLE lines but from what I have heard in talking to student and residents, my understanding is it doesn't make a difference which one you take once you are in residency. They just like to see USMLE scores in some programs because they want to see how all students fair on the same ground. COMLEX and USMLE are completely different exams on some levels unfortunately ... here's to hoping for improvements in the future 😉

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

there is no good reason to take all 3 steps of the USMLE as a DO student. (also note that even though there are 3 steps on each exam series, there actually are 4 exams in each)

You can do 1 of 3 things to help yourself out with applying to MD residencies:

1) Take only step 1 of USMLE.
2) Take steps 1 & 2 of USMLE.
3) Take only step 2 of USMLE. (as things are right now, DOs do not have to take the USMLEs in order, so you can do this)


From what I've seen from the experiences of others (I personally stuck with the DO route, but have many friends who went to MD residencies), I'd lean towards choice 3. USMLE step 2 and COMLEX step 2 are very similar (whereas there are significant differences in the two versions of step 1). If you take USMLE step 2 in summer of MS4, you can have a score back in time for interviews. This'll still give residency directors a score that they're used to interpreting & can use to compare your application to those of others. Only 1 extra test involved and no need to mess with the differences in emphasis on the two step 1s.

This is what i am referring to. Option 3 here has one taking ONLY step 2 of the USMLE, and since licensure comes from the COMLEX- for a DO anyway, so there would be no need to take ANYTHING but the COMLEX 1-3, and USMLE step 2 in summer of MS4. Is this true, or do some allopathic residencies not allow students to apply w/o a USMLE step 1 score, even if you have step 2? 4 exams vs.6 right?

 

[Hernandez]

This is what i am referring to. Option 3 here has one taking ONLY step 2 of the USMLE, and since licensure comes from the COMLEX- for a DO anyway, so there would be no need to take ANYTHING but the COMLEX 1-3, and USMLE step 2 in summer of MS4. Is this true, or do some allopathic residencies not allow students to apply w/o a USMLE step 1 score, even if you have step 2? 4 exams vs.6 right?

The majority of Allo programs do not require USMLE step 2, all you really need is COMLEX 1-3, and USMLE 1.

 

[It'sElectric]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

 

[Protease]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

care to elaborate please. I'm sure many will appreciate if you point out and correct any errors here.

 

[medhacker]

Lawyer: So you say she was shot in the woods?
Doctor: No. I said she was shot in the lumbar region.

 

[Dr JPH]

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Yes there is.

 

[Taus]

The majority of Allo programs do not require USMLE step 2, all you really need is COMLEX 1-3, and USMLE 1.

To the best of my knowledge....this is correct...and also the path I will be taking

 

[Dr JPH]

When applying for a residency spot, here is what is required:

Step 1 board scores
Preclinical grades
Clinical grades
LOR (number depends on program)
Letter from school stating you are in good standing

I know of very, very few programs that require a step 2 score of any kind.

Many people dont take step 2 until after they have applied.

 

[group_theory]

Everyone seems to forget that neurological surgery is also insanely extremely uber competitive (for both MDs and DOs)





Of note - residencies just want you to be able to be licensed by the time you are done with your intern year so that the hospital can bill, so they don't care if you take USMLE 3 or COMLEX 3. Now if you're at Stanford Medical Center and you take USMLE 3 but not COMLEX 3, you won't get a California license (from the CA Board of Osteopathic Medicine). As a result, your program may be very angry at you (and might not even promote you to PGY-2).

And please never refer to USMLE/COMLEX as allo-boarded or osteo-boarded (or completion of all 3-steps as being board-certified). It depends on if the specialty examination you take is recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties (ie., American Board of Internal Medicine, American Board of Pediatrics, American Board of Surgery), or by the AOA (ie., American Osteopathic Board of Internal Medicine, American Osteopathic Board of Pediatrics, American Osteopathic Board of Surgery)

If you do an ACGME residency, most likely you'll take the MD boards. If you do an AOA residency ... most likely the DO boards ... if you are in a dually-accredited residency, you can take both if you want to. People who pass these certification exams can claim to be "board-certified".

 

[mshheaddoc]

When applying for a residency spot, here is what is required:

Step 1 board scores
Preclinical grades
Clinical grades
LOR (number depends on program)
Letter from school stating you are in good standing

I know of very, very few programs that require a step 2 score of any kind.

Many people dont take step 2 until after they have applied.

Exactly.

But that wasn't the question some were asking. They were asking differences of USMLE/COMLEX and submitting additional information as a DO student through the application process, mainly USMLE or not. As for misinformation I haven't really seen any "misinformation" on this thread at all. There are many (confusing) paths when taking board exams and which ones are related and which ones aren't. This thread evolved into talking through that and explaining how things work.

My point in my post about step 2 was this:

Many people didn't do so hot on step 1 so they take step 2 before or while applying to try to "boost" their application. Those who did well on step 1 (or really just don't care what they do) were advised not include step 2 on their application and took it later in the application process or after. Some who don't know if they are doing MD or DO residencies at MS II will take USMLE just "in case". The majority of osteopathic students that I know personally did this. But only about half of them are planning on taking USMLE Step 2. Why are they taking USMLE Step 2? Mostly for residency applications (because they are going into competitive specialities) and some because they really dispise COMLEX and are going for allo licensure and don't care about NBOME approval for one reason or another.

 

[studentdoctor2]

Hey All
I was just wondering if any of you good people have an idea about various specialities and which one is the most toughest to get in and which one is the most easy to get in. I know dermatology is somewhere on the top of the list but any idea regarding other specialities?????

i just used the raw data at http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table10ab_06.pdf and ranked the programs by how many there were. nrmp seems to be the place to get this data from but i think that some numbers are fishy (i.e. there being only 1 program in the whole country for nuclear medicine, opthamology, and pediatrics-dermatology). note that the number of programs do not necessarily tell you how "tough" it is to get into but that it is just one factor (along with i.e. # of applicants, # of seats, etc.--information that i do not have)

Rank Program Name No. of Programs
1 Nuclear Medicine 1
Opthamology
Pediatrics-Dermatology
Plastic Surgery (PGY-2 Only)
5 Internal Medicine-Dermatology 2
Internal Medicine-Family Medicine
Internal Medicine-Medical Genetics
Internal Medicine-Neurology
Internal Medicine-Preventive Medicine
Medical Genetics
Preventive Medicine (PGY-2 Only)
12 Pediatrics-Emergency Med 3
Pediatrics-Medical Genetics
Pediatrics-PM&R
Nuclear Medicine (PGY-2 Only)
Psychiatry (PGY-2 Only)
17 Preventive Medicine 4
18 Psychiatry-Family Medicine 6
19 Urology 7
20 Radiation Oncology 8
21 Internal Medicine-Emergency Med 10
Neurological Surgery
Pediatrics-Psych/Child Psych
24 Emergency Medicine (PGY-2 Only) 11
25 Internal Medicine-Psychiatry 12
26 Dermatology 13
Neurology
Pediatrics-Primary
29 Physical Medicine & Rehab 28
30 Radiology-Diagnostic 33
31 Plastic Surgery 44
32 Internal Medicine-Primary 56
33 Radiation Oncology (PGY-2 Only) 61
34 Physical Medicine & Rehab (PGY-2 Only) 62
35 Anesthesiology 77
36 Internal Medicine-Pediatrics 84
37 Anesthesiology (PGY-2 Only) 94
38 Dermatology (PGY-2 Only) 99
39 Otolaryngology 103
40 Emergency Medicine 124
41 Transitional 126
42 Pathology 148
43 Orthopedic Surgery 160
44 Radiation-Diagnostic (PGY-2 Only) 170
45 Psychiatry 180
46 Pediatrics 196
47 General Surgery 242
48 Obstetrics-Gynecology 246
49 General Surgery-Preliminary 279
50 Internal Medicine-Preliminary 285
51 Internal Medicine 369
52 Family Medicine 472

Source: http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table10ab_06.pdf
Note: All programs are PGY-1 unless otherwise noted

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

Exactly.

But that wasn't the question some were asking. They were asking differences of USMLE/COMLEX and submitting additional information as a DO student through the application process, mainly USMLE or not. As for misinformation I haven't really seen any "misinformation" on this thread at all. There are many (confusing) paths when taking board exams and which ones are related and which ones aren't. This thread evolved into talking through that and explaining how things work.

My point in my post about step 2 was this:

Many people didn't do so hot on step 1 so they take step 2 before or while applying to try to "boost" their application. Those who did well on step 1 (or really just don't care what they do) were advised not include step 2 on their application and took it later in the application process or after. Some who don't know if they are doing MD or DO residencies at MS II will take USMLE just "in case". The majority of osteopathic students that I know personally did this. But only about half of them are planning on taking USMLE Step 2. Why are they taking USMLE Step 2? Mostly for residency applications (because they are going into competitive specialities) and some because they really dispise COMLEX and are going for allo licensure and don't care about NBOME approval for one reason or another.

Im confused by the term allo-licensure. If you are a DO, how is it that you'll be licensed in this manner?

 

[mshheaddoc]

Im confused by the term allo-licensure. If you are a DO, how is it that you'll be licensed in this manner?

This post explains it quite clearly I think. USMLE/COMLEX is only means for licensure NOT board certification.

Everyone seems to forget that neurological surgery is also insanely extremely uber competitive (for both MDs and DOs)





Of note - residencies just want you to be able to be licensed by the time you are done with your intern year so that the hospital can bill, so they don't care if you take USMLE 3 or COMLEX 3. Now if you're at Stanford Medical Center and you take USMLE 3 but not COMLEX 3, you won't get a California license (from the CA Board of Osteopathic Medicine). As a result, your program may be very angry at you (and might not even promote you to PGY-2).

And please never refer to USMLE/COMLEX as allo-boarded or osteo-boarded (or completion of all 3-steps as being board-certified). It depends on if the specialty examination you take is recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties (ie., American Board of Internal Medicine, American Board of Pediatrics, American Board of Surgery), or by the AOA (ie., American Osteopathic Board of Internal Medicine, American Osteopathic Board of Pediatrics, American Osteopathic Board of Surgery)

If you do an ACGME residency, most likely you'll take the MD boards. If you do an AOA residency ... most likely the DO boards ... if you are in a dually-accredited residency, you can take both if you want to. People who pass these certification exams can claim to be "board-certified".

 

[Dr JPH]

i just used the raw data at http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table10ab_06.pdf and ranked the programs by how many there were. nrmp seems to be the place to get this data from but i think that some numbers are fishy (i.e. there being only 1 program in the whole country for nuclear medicine, opthamology, and pediatrics-dermatology). note that the number of programs do not necessarily tell you how "tough" it is to get into but that it is just one factor (along with i.e. # of applicants, # of seats, etc.--information that i do not have)

Rank Program Name No. of Programs
1 Nuclear Medicine 1
Opthamology
Pediatrics-Dermatology
Plastic Surgery (PGY-2 Only)
5 Internal Medicine-Dermatology 2
Internal Medicine-Family Medicine
Internal Medicine-Medical Genetics
Internal Medicine-Neurology
Internal Medicine-Preventive Medicine
Medical Genetics
Preventive Medicine (PGY-2 Only)
12 Pediatrics-Emergency Med 3
Pediatrics-Medical Genetics
Pediatrics-PM&R
Nuclear Medicine (PGY-2 Only)
Psychiatry (PGY-2 Only)
17 Preventive Medicine 4
18 Psychiatry-Family Medicine 6
19 Urology 7
20 Radiation Oncology 8
21 Internal Medicine-Emergency Med 10
Neurological Surgery
Pediatrics-Psych/Child Psych
24 Emergency Medicine (PGY-2 Only) 11
25 Internal Medicine-Psychiatry 12
26 Dermatology 13
Neurology
Pediatrics-Primary
29 Physical Medicine & Rehab 28
30 Radiology-Diagnostic 33
31 Plastic Surgery 44
32 Internal Medicine-Primary 56
33 Radiation Oncology (PGY-2 Only) 61
34 Physical Medicine & Rehab (PGY-2 Only) 62
35 Anesthesiology 77
36 Internal Medicine-Pediatrics 84
37 Anesthesiology (PGY-2 Only) 94
38 Dermatology (PGY-2 Only) 99
39 Otolaryngology 103
40 Emergency Medicine 124
41 Transitional 126
42 Pathology 148
43 Orthopedic Surgery 160
44 Radiation-Diagnostic (PGY-2 Only) 170
45 Psychiatry 180
46 Pediatrics 196
47 General Surgery 242
48 Obstetrics-Gynecology 246
49 General Surgery-Preliminary 279
50 Internal Medicine-Preliminary 285
51 Internal Medicine 369
52 Family Medicine 472

Source: http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/tables/table10ab_06.pdf
Note: All programs are PGY-1 unless otherwise noted

This is absolutely no indication of competitiveness.

 

[MD/DO ALMOST]

thanks- I get it now~👍 👍 👍