Anyone interested/pursuing MD/PhD in Epidemiology?

[topraman]

I just wanted to get a feel for how many people out there are currently pursuing or are interested in an MD/PhD in Epidemiology.

I'm applying for Fall 07 and it is a bit tough because not many MSTP schools can accomodate it (you usually need a school of public health - though a few schools like Case Western are the exception) and even those who do allow it often have less funding for Epi stipends and its harder to gain admission as its considered non-traditional. The nice thing is that the PhD in Epi can be easily finished in 3 years (atleast relative to other disciplines)

I'm specifically interested in the molecular epidemiology of infectious diseases (I've been involved with this type of research and its on this great boundary between epi and microbiology) and its seems to me that UNC and Hopkins are two of the best places for this field.

any thoughts out there are welcome, I've just never seen any other post mentioning this topic.

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[solitude]

I don't have much to say, but Duke Med makes it very easy for 3rd years to get MPH's over at UNC, so it might be possible to do your MD at Duke and the PhD portion at UNC if you were interested, but I'm just speculating.

Edit: I just saw your post in the other thread. nevermind.

I just wanted to get a feel for how many people out there are currently pursuing or are interested in an MD/PhD in Epidemiology.

I'm applying for Fall 07 and it is a bit tough because not many MSTP schools can accomodate it (you usually need a school of public health - though a few schools like Case Western are the exception) and even those who do allow it often have less funding for Epi stipends and its harder to gain admission as its considered non-traditional. The nice thing is that the PhD in Epi can be easily finished in 3 years (atleast relative to other disciplines)

I'm specifically interested in the molecular epidemiology of infectious diseases (I've been involved with this type of research and its on this great boundary between epi and microbiology) and its seems to me that UNC and Hopkins are two of the best places for this field.

any thoughts out there are welcome, I've just never seen any other post mentioning this topic.

 

[topraman]

thanks but I already contacted Duke to ask, they said they will let you take a leave of absence and pursue the PhD but this cannot be done under their MD/PhD program, i.e. you'd be a regular med student (paying 40K!) and taking time off.

 

[solitude]

thanks but I already contacted Duke to ask, they said they will let you take a leave of absence and pursue the PhD but this cannot be done under their MD/PhD program, i.e. you'd be a regular med student (paying 40K!) and taking time off.

Well then I don't blame you for not filling out the secondary!

 

[physicsnerd42]

I'm a 1st year MD/PhD at Dartmouth and one of the people in my class is doing her PhD at the Center for Evaluative Clinical Sciences (an epidemiology PhD) through the MD/PhD program here. The MD/PhD program director seems to be very supportive of her and she gets the same funding as the rest of us. So, look into Dartmouth if you're interested.

 

[fantasty]

I just wanted to get a feel for how many people out there are currently pursuing or are interested in an MD/PhD in Epidemiology.

I'm applying for Fall 07 and it is a bit tough because not many MSTP schools can accomodate it (you usually need a school of public health - though a few schools like Case Western are the exception) and even those who do allow it often have less funding for Epi stipends and its harder to gain admission as its considered non-traditional. The nice thing is that the PhD in Epi can be easily finished in 3 years (atleast relative to other disciplines)

I'm specifically interested in the molecular epidemiology of infectious diseases (I've been involved with this type of research and its on this great boundary between epi and microbiology) and its seems to me that UNC and Hopkins are two of the best places for this field.

any thoughts out there are welcome, I've just never seen any other post mentioning this topic.

There are a few threads on this, so you might find more discussion in a quick search. But, as an epi MD/PhD at an MSTP, I assure you that it's possible

Off the top of my head, I know it's possible at Iowa (hehe), Yale, UAB, Northwestern, UCSD, Rochester, Mich, Pitt (?), JHU (?) ... I believe Penn comes up in the discussion too but there are enough Penn students on here who can speak with authority.

Feel free to PM me if you want to know about molecular epi at Iowa.

 

[Neuronix]

I believe Penn comes up in the discussion too but there are enough Penn students on here who can speak with authority.

Usually just one really vocal one Yeah, Penn is happy to consider your app for non-science PhDs. It's rare at all schools, and if you search the other threads you should find more info about schools amenable to it. If you know which Epi programs are strong, I would e-mail or call the MD/PhD offices and see if those programs can tell you if they'll entertain Epi MD/PhD applications.

 

[topraman]

thanks guys,

I did'nt apply to alot of places like Iowa, UAB, Yale, etc bc to be honest I didn't want to live there, to each their own I guess.

I'd also rather prefer an Epi program through a school of public health, I did my undergrad in one at a large one and I love the atmosphere and other resources available. (not to mention schools of public health are around 80% young, intelligent, health conscious females), just kidding, i mean its true but not a reason.

I ended up applying to 5 schools, more or less the MSTPs with the 5 largest/best known schools of public health (unc, columbia, hopkins, emory, harvard) and I finished interviewing at one. They scheduled it early for me since I'll be out of the country during their normal weekends (I'm working for WHO and the US Navy on my year off) and the director offered me admission on that same day if I withdrew my application from everywhere else. It's a tempting offer but its a tough choice to make without having even seen the other places.

another question - anyone know any predoctoral fellowships those of us interested in infectious disease work?
MD/PhD can't apply to NSF, NIAID isn't participating in the NIH F30, they are in the NIH F31 but I'm not an underrepresented minority, and the only one I can find is the Dept of Defense NDSEG but its really tough for the biosciences and only for 3 years. I would really appreciate if anyone could point me to a few others.

 

[myoung83]

Thank you so much for starting this thread. I am applying MD / Public Health PhD (I am interested in Epi, among other public health diciplines) and I thought I was the only one in the world. In addition to the programs you mentioned, I also found Public Health PhD's (or DrPh's) offered concurrently with MD's at Tulane, U Illinois - Chicago (not MSTP but funding available), and Yale. So far I haven't gotten that much love. I think part of the reason could be adcomms are confused (and I haven't been very specific about what, exactly, I want to do the PhD work in). How did your interview go? Did you interview with just Epi people, or hard science faculty as well? Please let me know if you have any tips or advice.

Thanks!

 

[topraman]

hey that sounds great. My interviews went superbly but I tend to enjoy them in general as I do well. As far as not being specific about your PhD discipline, here's my 2 cents - while you dont need to know your disseratation topic, its better to tell them what you're leaning towards (find something to lean toward if you need to). In my case I told them I could pursue my research interests in either the micro or epi departments. It shows them that youve done some homework and also gives you more to talk about.

Since they held a separate interview for me due to my schedule, I had 2 days crammed into one with 2 MD interviews, 2 students sessions, 4 PhDs (research) interviews, and the director. It was a long day - 8 hours of interviews in total. 2 of the PhDs were public health while 2 were hard science. also a concept I liked to use for justifying the public health population perspective was the idea of not just from benchside to bedside (traditional md/phd) but from benchside to bedside to community. I think it certainly did help that I had a strong hard science background though, and that my public health interest was in Epi - in fact other than health policy at harvard I havent heard about MD/PhD in other public health disciplines (nutrition - though this one should be possible, health behaviour, environmental engineering, maternal child health, biostats)

if you want any other specifics or questions - which school it was, what ive done, etc just PM me

 

[topraman]

PS I dont think you could do a DrPh as part of an MD/PhD - its a degree oriented towards professional practice - not research and you usually need another major degree and/or work experience to pursue it

 

[jimbobb23]

I just finished my PhD in Cardiovascular Epidemiology. At the time I applied to MSTP programs I applied to nearly every top SPH that would allow you to pursue the PhD in Epi. However, some programs had the option but did not really understand how to deal with those applicants (UCLA at the time was bizarre). My undergraduate work was in Biostatistics.

Currently, at Hopkins one of the MSTP spots is reserved for an Epi student, as told to me by one of their Cardio Epi people that sits on the applications committee. However, at the time I applied the med school was still the gatekeeper.

Many long years ago (these programs take forever...) I applied to
JHU
Harvard (not MSTP but will fund you - their Epi is a SciD - long story)
Chapel Hill
University of Washington, Seattle
University of Michigan
Emory
UCLA

maybe some others...

Anyway - you will have a great advantage due to your relative rarity and the intense interest among clinicians in clinical outcomes studies. Most medical clinic research is horrible - and you will be a great resource to your eventual department. I have been a complete slacker in med school (poor scores all around - don't recommend it since I'm likely a lousy doctor) after a great undergrad effort, and attendings in every speciality have encouraged me to apply and were confident I could get in. Derm, rads, opthal, rad onc. I'm not worried (ok - I lie, I'm kinda worried). The world needs more researchers.

An MPH is great as a degree that helps you understand the literature and do a little stats and do a little research a little better. It simply does not have the research focus that prepares you to be a PI in epidemiological studies. Now, with experience an MPH can be enough - or no degree if someone dedicates the time. But you will have a huge research edge getting the PhD.

Plus - no lab. Its a very nice PhD - hard work, but not lab work.

I strongly encourage it.

 

[CaipirinhaQuinho]

one of the first years at Penn is an MD/PhD in Epi. With a p-value=.05, we at least have to have 1 out of 20 just my chance.

 

[gringotuno]

I'm an MD/PhD at the University of Miami and am currently in my 2nd year of an Epi PhD. There are 4 of us currently in grad school and there is also one that completed her PhD and is now back in med school. If you have questions, send me a message.

 

[move2west]

I cant remember for sure, but I think you may do it through one of the foreign NIH GPP programs.

 

[mark-ER]

Umich MSTP recently graduated an Epi PhD (from Dr. Gruber's lab) and right now have 2 women (M2 & Grad1) doing epi & their school of public health is really quite good.

 

[gringotuno]

For the other MD/PhD's doing Epi... how many years did/will it take for you to do your PhD? Just curious...

 

[Coclean]

There are two MD/PhD students who do their PhDs in Epi here at Emory in the current P1 class, and one in her P3 year. The MINIMUM time for their PhDs is 4 years....and supposedly the Epi PhDs here generally take longer than the basic science guys....The gal in her P3 year intends to take 6 years for her beautiful PhD in Epi....

However, that said, Emory has a reputation for being one of the harder Epi programs (so I was told by many many professors, at many many schools, after I entered here) despite that no students seem to think it is "ranked". You might get a shorter PhD at a different school. But really, doesn't a shorter PhD just mean a longer Post-Doc???

 

[haricot]

some students at hopkins said the epi phds there are generally a bit shorter than other phds.

 

[gringotuno]

some students at hopkins said the epi phds there are generally a bit shorter than other phds.

Same here at UM. It really just depends on what type of data the person chooses for their dissertation. It usually is much better than doing benchwork in a lab.

 

[1Path]

My understanding is that there are quite a few MD/PhD programs (GW cpmes to mind) that will allow PhD's in Epi but most aren't MSTP's. And quite honestly with experience in Cancer Epi from the NCI, I haven't 100% ruled it out myself.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

some students at hopkins said the epi phds there are generally a bit shorter than other phds.

Same here.

 

[1Path]

And quite honestly with experience in Cancer Epi from the NCI, I haven't 100% ruled it out myself.

Bumping this thread because I may have to come over to the "dark side" of Epidemiology (Cancer) sooner than I thought.

 

[sanktank7]

wow, I thought I was the only one and I bumped into this thread. Im applying to MSTP and MD/PhDs in search of molecular epi research but broadly interested in infectious disease. Do any of you folks from a year or two ago have an update. Im applying to a lot of the same schools mentioned:

UAB, Emory, U of Washington Seattle, Hopkins

 

[cdoc]

hey, anyone here have a sense of how much more of a competitive edge an md/phd in epi has over a phd in epi (in the market)?

 

[bcmak]

Bumping this up!!!
Does anyone have anymore information regarding schools that allow MSTP students to pursue an Epi Ph.D?
A lot of the SOM/SPH websites that I've visited don't really have a lot of information regarding whether or not you can do a combined MD/Ph.D program in Epi T_T
Aside from the ones mentioned already, are there schools that have now expanded to allowing MD/Ph.Ds in Epi?

 

[fantasty]

http://epi-mstp.wikispaces.com/

 

[Fencer]

The CTSA grants in many institutions with MD/PhD programs have created mechanisms for PhD support of PhDs in Translational Science, which could fit many Epidemiological projects, particularly those with interventions or assessing disparities of care.

 

[meckssh0]

I'm an MD/PhD at the University of Miami and am currently in my 2nd year of an Epi PhD. There are 4 of us currently in grad school and there is also one that completed her PhD and is now back in med school. If you have questions, send me a message.

Do you think an MPH at a top public health school before the MD/PhD in epidemiology is important. I am choosing between no debt at a state school that is not well ranked or columbia and emory for an MPH in epi. I want to study clinical, cancer epi. Thanks!

 

[fantasty]

Do you think an MPH at a top public health school before the MD/PhD in epidemiology is important. I am choosing between no debt at a state school that is not well ranked or columbia and emory for an MPH in epi. I want to study clinical, cancer epi. Thanks!

Just to be clear, are both options leading to MPH prior to starting a combined MD/PhD? Or are you saying that you're considering MD/MPH at one or more of those schools?

 

[fantasty]

EpiMSTP - home

I guess wikispaces is dying. Oh well.

 

[meckssh0]

Just to be clear, are both options leading to MPH prior to starting a combined MD/PhD? Or are you saying that you're considering MD/MPH at one or more of those schools?

Yes, both are MPH prior to MD/Phd. Thanks!

 

[fantasty]

Very non-committal answer coming...

If you are getting your MPH before PhD... most of the coursework that you need to do for the MPH will be general public health requirements. So, they may not be as essential that you take those classes at "top tier" institutions. However, top programs in public health are going to offer you more opportunities (including research, extra-curricular, and mentoring / networking). So, I think it would be great to take advantage of the breadth of public health wherever you do your MPH. And, maybe not necessarily go crazy on epi and biostats (unless you're at a great place for epi methods and/or great biostats teachers).

You undoubtedly will still have some coursework to do in your MD/PhD (and assuming that you're going Epi for the degree, you can get into advanced methods and also spend time focusing on the biomedical context that you want to pursue). You can probably go into grad school coursework fine with an decent epi and biostats introduction from an accredited MPH program. But, you'll want to take advantage of the opportunity to really become an expert in methodology during PhD.