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kokopelli

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Today I was checking out the web site for the Arizona School. And I was very surprised to see that they changed the degree that they will award. I remember that when I applied back in September they said they would award the traditional DDS degree, but today the website said they award the DMD degree. Anyone noticed this before? And, if you did...when did they make that change? :confused:
 

JRogoff

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Yes, they did chage the degree. It wasn't too long ago either. You have to talk to gavin about that to see exactly when.
 

mikhiel

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yeah, a rep from their school came and visited us at UW recently, and she mentioned that it's now a DMD degree. The brochures she gave us still said DDS, so it was pretty recently.
 
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ItsGavinC

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The board of trustees literally took the vote the second week in January (as I recall), so it has been less than two months.

So, yes, it is the DMD degree. The other "new" schools, Nova and UNLV, also award the DMD degree. Case Western also switched to this degree late last year.
 

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This almost sounds like a new trend. Do you guys predict most schools will end up switching to DMD instead of DDS?
 

ItsGavinC

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I don't know about a trend or not.

I DO know that the DMD degree sits better with me simply because I plan on being more than merely a dental surgeon. Of course, the public can't make heads or tails of either degree, so from their viewpoint it doesn't matter much.

Generally, however, the public perceives that the "MD" of the DMD connotates more weight than the DDS degree. This of course, is untrue.
 

Barry20

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This DMD vs. DDS issue is one that is so ridiculous. If there is NO difference, why don't the schools come to an accord and award one of the two! This would make things so much simpler, especially for the general public who often asks the difference between the two. It's as though it?s compared to the MD vs. DO issue in medicine ? meaning one is superior to the other.
 

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Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I don't know about a trend or not.

I DO know that the DMD degree sits better with me simply because I plan on being more than merely a dental surgeon. Of course, the public can't make heads or tails of either degree, so from their viewpoint it doesn't matter much.

Generally, however, the public perceives that the "MD" of the DMD connotates more weight than the DDS degree. This of course, is untrue.

I remember you saying that you would prefer the DDS?? That was a long time ago, it could of been someone else.
 

ItsGavinC

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Originally posted by Dentaldream
I remember you saying that you would prefer the DDS?? That was a long time ago, it could of been someone else.

I don't ever recall saying that, although it is certainly possible. But as I currently stand, I don't know why I would have said that. It is more likely that I said something such as "I don't care which degree is awarded," and that is still the truth. I prefer the DMD, but I don't care enough to make it an issue.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I don't know about a trend or not.

I DO know that the DMD degree sits better with me simply because I plan on being more than merely a dental surgeon. Of course, the public can't make heads or tails of either degree, so from their viewpoint it doesn't matter much.

Generally, however, the public perceives that the "MD" of the DMD connotates more weight than the DDS degree. This of course, is untrue.
Two objections to this line of thought:

1) The public either "can't make heads or tails of either degree," or "perceives that the 'MD' of the DMD connotates more weight than the DDS degree." You can't have them both; they're mutually exclusive.

2) Your first sentence tiptoes perilously close to sounding like *you* personally think there's a difference between them. That's obviously not the case, but the comment does sound very much like you're more interested in capitalizing on public ignorance than mending it.
 

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In some states (notably California) you can append DDS to your name if you are a licensed dentist, regardless of what type of degree. I wonder if it goes the other way around?
 

ItsGavinC

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Originally posted by aphistis
Two objections to this line of thought:

1) The public either "can't make heads or tails of either degree," or "perceives that the 'MD' of the DMD connotates more weight than the DDS degree." You can't have them both; they're mutually exclusive.

1) How so? I actually think they can be mutually INCLUSIVE.

The public is completely confused as to why there are two dental degrees. It doesn't make sense to them. We tell them they are equivalent, and they wonder why we don't all get the same degree. This troubles them.

To the public, however, the DMD sounds like more advanced training (despite the fact that they don't understand WHY two degrees are awarded).

So, the public doesn't understand the awarding of the degrees, but one sounds better to them than the other one.

2) As far as my thinking one is better than the other, I do think the DMD does a much better job of recognizing our actual job descriptions. I won't always be using surgery to treat each patient I see.

Your thought that I'm interested on capitalizing on public ignorance is ignorant in and of itself. Remember, our degree just changed last month. I certainly didn't enroll in a school based on the degree it awards. As I said before, I feel the DMD is a much more accurate description of our profession. Regardless, I'm doubting my patients will know much about either degree, nor many of them care when seeking/receiving treatment. My chairside manner will woo them regardless of the titles I own :D

BTW, Bill, I probably didn't convey my thoughts very well in my original post. Thanks for making turning me towards a more critical assesment.
 
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ItsGavinC

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Originally posted by marshall
In some states (notably California) you can append DDS to your name if you are a licensed dentist, regardless of what type of degree. I wonder if it goes the other way around?

I don't think it goes the other way. Reason being, I recall learning that the state of California addresses all dentists with the DDS title, regardless of the one they actually carry.

The DDS is far more common in the West and midwest.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by ItsGavinC
1) How so? I actually think they can be mutually INCLUSIVE.

The public is completely confused as to why there are two dental degrees. It doesn't make sense to them. We tell them they are equivalent, and they wonder why we don't all get the same degree. This troubles them.

To the public, however, the DMD sounds like more advanced training (despite the fact that they don't understand WHY two degrees are awarded).

So, the public doesn't understand the awarding of the degrees, but one sounds better to them than the other one.

2) As far as my thinking one is better than the other, I do think the DMD does a much better job of recognizing our actual job descriptions. I won't always be using surgery to treat each patient I see.

Your thought that I'm interested on capitalizing on public ignorance is ignorant in and of itself. Remember, our degree just changed last month. I certainly didn't enroll in a school based on the degree it awards. As I said before, I feel the DMD is a much more accurate description of our profession. Regardless, I'm doubting my patients will know much about either degree, nor many of them care when seeking/receiving treatment. My chairside manner will woo them regardless of the titles I own :D

BTW, Bill, I probably didn't convey my thoughts very well in my original post. Thanks for making turning me towards a more critical assesment.
Gracias for the civil response. As you correctly noticed, I wasn't calling you out on your position itself as much as for the ambiguity in your explanation.

I assume you'll eventually be teaching a CE course for that winning chairside personality of yours? Sign me up. :D
 

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Originally posted by aphistis
You'd win. So?

Sweet! You can send me the money via FedEx. And that was US currency I was talking about, no way I'm accepting Canadian money.
 

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Gavin,

Out of curiosity, when you mention "surgery" (regarding the DDS) in your post, are you referring to extractions and the like that is tied to oral surgery? Can you expound on your comments that the DMD will better describe what you will be doing as a dentist?
 

ItsGavinC

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Sure thing. I see a big push in the profession right now to educate students on more than simply teeth. Meaning, public health is getting a big push, research is getting a big push (especially as we come to realize the vast number of ways that the oral cavity is directly tied to the body), and dentists being aware of their patients as a whole is getting a big push.

Of course, these factors have always been recognized, but my sense from my own personal education as well as reading SDN and DentalTown, is that dentists can play a larger role in patient healthcare than they currently do, and that they ought to play this role.

I think some of this is directly related to the future of our profession. If we are ONLY drillers and fillers, then our profession as it currently stands is easily encroached upon by other healthcare areas.

This is in NO way a comment about how we should function as physicians, for that simply isn't the case.

My thoughts are that dentists do many procedures and provide many benefits to patients, that aren't invasive (surgery) related.

Dental school has really made me realize that we study and practice oral medicine (dentistry). If that weren't the case, then we wouldn't have to learn about microbiology, physiology, biochemistry, etc. Nor would those things be tested on the Boards.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by Dentaldream
Sweet! You can send me the money via FedEx. And that was US currency I was talking about, no way I'm accepting Canadian money.
I don't remember anyone taking your bet. ;)
 

ItsGavinC

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Hey, trust me, Bill doesn't have any money. He's engaged.

And, if he has any money now, he won't soon. :D
 

Barry20

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Gavin,

Great explanation. I understand what you mean. Thanks! Still nada from az! Trate de sacar una cita con Dr. Simonsen, pero no pudimos encontrar un tiempo que nos conviniera. Le mande un email explicando que queria asistir ASDOH, pero no me ha respondido todavia. No se que pensar. Adios.
 

ItsGavinC

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Nic,

Lo siento. Me gusta que podrias escribir a Simonsen. Lo bueno es que tiene ya buenas noticias de otras escuelas. Se que Simonsen va a escribirte.
 

aphistis

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Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Hey, trust me, Bill doesn't have any money. He's engaged.

And, if he has any money now, he won't soon. :D
*I* won't have any money, but I'm just killing time till Rachel graduates next spring. Actuaries pull down pretty handsome salaries, generally speaking. Who knows, maybe she'll end up being the breadwinner while I end up working 10 hours a week to support my various habits. :D

But you're still not getting the $100, Dream. ;)
 

Dr.BadVibes

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Who knows, maybe she'll end up being the breadwinner while I end up working 10 hours a week to support my expensive toy habit.

ummmmm....looks like Bill is the kinky type!! Lucky Rachel! but arent the women supposed to have the expensive toy habits? :laugh:

Once again, Ive displayed my maturity nicely on this forum! :hardy:
 
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