Anyone plan on continuing collecting unemployment insurance in medical school?

[BadBunny]

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I'm currently collecting $890 a week after being laid off from my CNA job due to COVID. Even after the extra $600 run out, I will still be collecting $290 a week for 6 months (and its possible congress could extend the $600 payment). My state also waived work search requirements until September 1st for now, and I forsee them extending them more into the future.

My only problem is I have to answer the question am I available to work? I will be saying I am in school. I did collect Unemployment starting with my last year of undergrad because I was working as a CNA during school, and I was available to work during undergrad (and I disclosed I was attending school). However, med school may be different. I may be available to work limited hours, and I certainly will disclose that I'm in medical school.

 

[GoSpursGo]

There is a difference between whether you CAN collect unemployment (the answer is you almost certainly would skate by) and whether that really is within the spirit of the program. You and I both know that med school is a full time job, even if whoever is reviewing unemployment benefit claims doesn't know that. If you were not planning to work during med school and are not actively looking for a job, then it does not make sense to claim that you are "available" to work.

Honestly, this seems unethical, and this sort of abuse of public safety net programs is the kind of behavior that makes some people question their validity. Whether that's OK with your conscience is something only you can answer, but no, I would not recommend doing this.

 

[BadBunny]

I plan to continue collecting and putting it all towards my loans, especially while interest remains at 0%.

I've been working off the books since COVID started and still plan to continue tbh

Working off the books without reporting is highly illegal and is the textbook definition of unemployment insurance fraud

 

[BadBunny]

In most states, you can usually make $50-100 a week before having to report to unemployment. If you just babysat for 4 hours a week and made $60, you should be fine. If you were secretely working a full time job, you're in big trouble

 

[deleted689358]

While in medical school, loans are considered your "income". A very comfortable amount of income in fact, depending on how much you decided to take out. Certainly above any threshold the government would have on being able to collect unemployment. It would be highly unethical to claim unemployment when there are other easily accessible methods to obtain money that don't include taking advantage of taxpayers.

 

[Mass Effect]

Unemployment wasnt enough to survive with my bills, expenses, etc after losing my job when COVID hit. I didnt really have a choice, the problem plays more with the fact we only got 1 stimulus check, especially with how deep in the hole this application cycle put me *shrug* I get the legal issues with it, but I hardly consider it unethical considering the amount of aid people from countries that are actually handling this pandemic well is getting. The lack of aid forcing people back to work is why we get to be "woo #1"

The "off the books" work also wasnt much.

Dude, you ALWAYS have a choice. ALWAYS.

This type of thinking is usually what we see in the early days before the big post that states "my friend was dismissed from med school but did nothing wrong at all." Don't be that guy.

 

[GreenDuck12]

OP, you should consult your state’s unemployment rules or an attorney. Be advised that fraud with regards to UI is not a trivial matter and the fines and penalties can be severe.

I would highly recommend closing this post as it is legally dubious at best.

 

[GreenDuck12]

While in medical school, loans are considered your "income". A very comfortable amount of income in fact, depending on how much you decided to take out. Certainly above any threshold the government would have on being able to collect unemployment. It would be highly unethical to claim unemployment when there are other easily accessible methods to obtain money that don't include taking advantage of taxpayers.

Loans are not considered income - if they were, they would be subject to state and federal taxes. I’m not disputing the point about not collecting unemployment because one has the ability to utilize loans but I think it’s important to be clear about this.

 

[deleted689358]

Loans are not considered income - if they were, they would be subject to state and federal taxes. I’m not disputing the point about not collecting unemployment because one has the ability to utilize loans but I think it’s important to be clear about this.

That is why I wrote income in quotations. For the sake of the argument as to whether it is ethical or unethical, one could argue that you do have some sort of income, regardless of whether or not it is viewed as such by the government.

Admittedly, I should have clarified in my post why I wrote it that way.

 

[GreenDuck12]

That is why I wrote income in quotations. For the sake of the argument as to whether it is ethical or unethical, one could argue that you do have some sort of income, regardless of whether or not it is viewed as such by the government.

Admittedly, I should have clarified in my post why I wrote it that way.

Financial resources would be a good way to describe it.

 

[IlDestriero]

Unemployment wasnt enough to survive with my bills, expenses, etc after losing my job when COVID hit. I didnt really have a choice, the problem plays more with the fact we only got 1 stimulus check, especially with how deep in the hole this application cycle put me *shrug* I get the legal issues with it, but I hardly consider it unethical considering the amount of aid people from countries that are actually handling this pandemic well is getting. The lack of aid forcing people back to work is why we get to be "woo #1"

The "off the books" work also wasnt much.

This comment is pretty concerning.
Hopefully you’re just trolling, if not, I see big problems in your future.

 

[JSReed]

I'm currently collecting $890 a week after being laid off from my CNA job due to COVID. Even after the extra $600 run out, I will still be collecting $290 a week for 6 months (and its possible congress could extend the $600 payment). My state also waived work search requirements until September 1st for now, and I forsee them extending them more into the future.

My only problem is I have to answer the question am I available to work? I will be saying I am in school. I did collect Unemployment starting with my last year of undergrad because I was working as a CNA during school, and I was available to work during undergrad (and I disclosed I was attending school). However, med school may be different. I may be available to work limited hours, and I certainly will disclose that I'm in medical school.

Would you want this being broadcast to the entire world? Your future employer? Your family? Your grandmother? Your friends? The US Government?

I get the sense you know this is wrong, but are looking for a way to make it acceptable. Don't do things you wouldn't want broadcasted to the world (part of the privilege of being in medicine).

I dont understand why taking unemployment after losing my job, while making ~50 to 150 a week off the books is concerning..?

Because safety net programs are meant to help people who are struggling to put food on the table. And your implication that you can skirt official/well-documented legal practices to make things "fair" isn't going to play well in a patient-care role. At least I think that's what @IlDestriero is getting at

 

[JSReed]

"Put food on the table" - like I said. You arent privy to my situation...

I'm saying unemployment wasnt enough to keep food on the table so I had to work off the books to do so without having collections also called on me...?

It isnt abuse of the system, and my comment was a critique of the system.

Just trying to interpret what others have said....

 

[ciestar]

This screams of fraud

 

[GreenDuck12]

You’re required to report all earned income while collecting unemployment. States usually have a policy where a certain dollar amount won’t impact your UI benefits but REQUIRE earnings to be reported. OP, you are inviting fraud charges while pursuing a medical education and practice as a physician that will require you to get certified by your states medical board and have a DEA license for controlled substances. You are inviting a whole lot of trouble here by not following the regulations. Also, ignorance of the requirements is not a valid excuse.

 

[ciestar]

Let me add; my husband who works in finance and does a lot of litigation stuff says this is a horrible idea and you’re setting yourself up for trouble. You likely wont be available to work nor seeking employment, which really constitutes the definition of “unemployment”.

 

[ciestar]

Loans are not considered income - if they were, they would be subject to state and federal taxes. I’m not disputing the point about not collecting unemployment because one has the ability to utilize loans but I think it’s important to be clear about this.

Theyre not supposed to. But i got dinged for it in the past and didnt fight it like an idiot. No, loans aren’t income.

 

[GoSpursGo]

My bad. Just frustrated with the assumptions made here, and COVID has been quite a stressful time period for me. Though I do understand on my end I didnt divulge all relevant information, it is personal matters after all, and so people may be confused but to reiterate with unemployment + my small amount of working off the books I am still barely scraping by. I cant go without either unfortunately at this time.

I honestly don’t care too much either way if someone is making some small amount of money weekly and also collecting uninsurance. It’s whatever.

But I do think the OP’s original question is much more clear cut and it would be inappropriate to continue collecting during Med school. Anyone could use some free money, but it’s unethical and of questionable legality at best.

 

[walterwhite3556]

My bad. Just frustrated with the assumptions made here, and COVID has been quite a stressful time period for me. Though I do understand on my end I didnt divulge all relevant information, it is personal matters after all, and so people may be confused but to reiterate with unemployment + my small amount of working off the books I am still barely scraping by. I cant go without either unfortunately at this time.

I think a lot of people in this thread don’t understand how unemployment insurance works or who qualifies (the qualifications changed during the pandemic, especially in NYS). What this person is doing is not illegal in NYS by any means as long as the “off the books” income was less than $504 per week (which it seems like it is). If you made less than that you don’t have to report it.
Those saying this person is engaging in fraudulent activities are wrong. And to be clear, if you’ve never been in this situation consider yourself extremely privileged and stop perpetuating the myth of rampant safety net exploitation.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think a lot of people in this thread don’t understand how unemployment insurance works or who qualifies (the qualifications changed during the pandemic, especially in NYS). What this person is doing is not illegal in NYS by any means as long as the “off the books” income was less than $504 per week (which it seems like it is). If you made less than that you don’t have to report it.
Those saying this person is engaging in fraudulent activities are wrong. And to be clear, if you’ve never been in this situation consider yourself extremely privileged and stop perpetuating the myth of rampant safety net exploitation.

The question was about claiming unemployment in med school. You can't see how that's fraudulent?

Let's also not talk about privilege when the poster himself says the reason he needed the money was because of applying to med school.

 

[libertyyne]

Im not going to go on some ethical soap box , however consider this:

If it is against the rules of the program, and you get caught. There is a distinct possibility of ending up on the wrong side of a felony fraud charges. This would ultimately prevent you from completing medical school and becoming a physician.

 

[deleted889094]

Just ask yourself "What would Judge Judy think of this?"

 

[ciestar]

Just ask yourself "What would Judge Judy think of this?"

My mind goes to Suze Orman’s “are you kidding me” lol

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Let's also not talk about privilege when the poster himself says the reason he needed the money was because of applying to med school.

Bruh. I assume you're referring to me here, I did NOT say I needed the money because of applying to med school. My situation was already bad, but applying removed any buffer I still had left, but I was able to scrape by. The last straw broke when COVID came, and I was no longer able to work any of my jobs.

To make clear, again, this wasn't a "gotta pay for extra unnecessary expenses" sort of thing. This was a not be homeless, be able to eat, keep my bills paid sort of thing. That's the reality for a lot of people right now.

I'm going to go ahead and delete my past posts, I'm going to chalk it up to misunderstandings as I definitely withheld information, and maybe should've made what I was saying clearer. I know for most people on these forums my situation is not common, and I'm glad that's the case and I do hope none of yall never experience it.

 

[deleted889094]

My mind goes to Suze Orman’s “are you kidding me” lol

I can think of a specific case in JJ where a guy spent college grant money on things other than school and she blasted him for it. She said "That's not your money! That's Officer Bird's money!"

 

[walterwhite3556]

The question was about claiming unemployment in med school. You can't see how that's fraudulent?

Let's also not talk about privilege when the poster himself says the reason he needed the money was because of applying to med school.

OP was talking about collecting during med school, not the person I quoted.

You can't collect UI during med school. Your employment status will be student, not unemployed.

 

[BadBunny]

You’re required to report all earned income while collecting unemployment. States usually have a policy where a certain dollar amount won’t impact your UI benefits but REQUIRE earnings to be reported. OP, you are inviting fraud charges while pursuing a medical education and practice as a physician that will require you to get certified by your states medical board and have a DEA license for controlled substances. You are inviting a whole lot of trouble here by not following the regulations. Also, ignorance of the requirements is not a valid excuse.

I am not the one commiting fraud by not reporting wages. I'm not working now. Someone who commented on this thread was and I called him/her out

 

[Mass Effect]

Bruh. I assume you're referring to me here, I did NOT say I needed the money because of applying to med school. My situation was already bad, but applying removed any buffer I still had left, but I was able to scrape by. The last straw broke when COVID came, and I was no longer able to work any of my jobs.

To make clear, again, this wasn't a "gotta pay for extra unnecessary expenses" sort of thing. This was a not be homeless, be able to eat, keep my bills paid sort of thing. That's the reality for a lot of people right now.

I'm going to go ahead and delete my past posts, I'm going to chalk it up to misunderstandings as I definitely withheld information, and maybe should've made what I was saying clearer. I know for most people on these forums my situation is not common, and I'm glad that's the case and I do hope none of yall never experience it.

The below was your own words. Many of us feel it's unethical and fraud and reasons doesn't suddenly make it right. If you were really making so very little that reporting it wouldn't have made a difference, then you should have reported it. The bottom line is that not reporting it is not cool.

"I didnt really have a choice, the problem plays more with the fact we only got 1 stimulus check, especially with how deep in the hole this application cycle put me *shrug* I get the legal issues with it, but I hardly consider it unethical considering the amount of aid people from countries that are actually handling this pandemic well is getting. "

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

The below was your own words. Many of us feel it's unethical and fraud and reasons doesn't suddenly make it right. If you were really making so very little that reporting it wouldn't have made a difference, then you should have reported it. The bottom line is that not reporting it is not cool.

"I didnt really have a choice, the problem plays more with the fact we only got 1 stimulus check, especially with how deep in the hole this application cycle put me *shrug* I get the legal issues with it, but I hardly consider it unethical considering the amount of aid people from countries that are actually handling this pandemic well is getting. "

Yes, I was justifiably scared of reporting earnings of 50 to 150 depending on the week because I couldnt get a solid confirmation on the limit you were allowed to make while maintaining UI benefits and if I lost UI id be completely, for lack of a better word, ****ed. If you cant understand that fear then I dont really see the point of continuing the convo I already conceded to drop, especially because I have no desire to divulge any other personal information to 'justify' myself to you.

 

[sella.turcica]

Taxes are one of the things that are certain in this life man. Don't **** with Uncle Sam. He will ram you from behind.

 

[Ho0v-man]

If it’s legal—> do it

If it’s not legal (sounds like it isn’t)—> don’t do it.

What’s the debate here?