Anything I can do or quit now?

[hopeful320]

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I just recently graduated from college with a biology degree. I finished with just barely above a 3.0 cumulative GPA with an overall GPA of 3.03. I went to a big, public state school and am a Texas resident. I have a few other weaknesses. One weakness is that my BCPM gpa is below a 3.0 and around a 2.7. Another weakness is that I don't really have a trend in my GPA, but most semesters were around a 3.0 GPA with a few outliers. My last weakness is that I have a MIP on my record as well. I also have some strengths. One strength is that my MCAT score is 518, which is quite a bit higher than the average. Another strength is that I have a lot of EC/volunteering experiences. I also have several professors/physicians willing to write great LORs for me. With all of this in consideration, do y'all think I should look into a different career or do I still have a chance?

 

[deleted659912]

MCAT is great but the GPA is low. I would say re-take anything below a B until you can pull that sGPA above a 3.0 I'm not exactly sure about your chances at MD schools since they average grades, but DO schools do grade-replacement so you have a great shot at them if you retake your classes.

 

[deleted407021]

What is an "MIP"?

 

[hopeful320]

But since I've already earned my bachelors degree, the grades I retake at this point will go into a separate postbacc gpa, right?

 

[hopeful320]

MIP=Minor in possession of alcohol. My RA caught me with beer in my dorm room. It was a stupid mistake I made a couple of years ago.

 

[deleted659912]

But since I've already earned my bachelors degree, the grades I retake at this point will go into a separate postbacc gpa, right?

Not sure about specifics, but I think schools just lump it all together. Maybe re-take the intro classes at a nearby CC/inexpensive school.

What is an "MIP"?

MIP is minor in possession. I wouldn't consider it a big deal, just make sure you disclose it and explain what you learned from it. How can you grow old and wise if you weren't young and stupid.

 

[Lawpy]

MIP=Minor in possession of alcohol. My RA caught me with beer in my dorm room. It was a stupid mistake I made a couple of years ago.

Those were the days, except my RA didn't really care when my dormmates were bringing alcohol into their rooms. Pretty laidback and great guy.

 

[hopeful320]

Yeah my RA blew it way out of proportion, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Definitely doesn't help though.

 

[Lancer]

I think your situation, given your high MCAT score, is an ideal case for enrolling in a Special Master's Program (SMP). You'd have to do really well in the SMP program (look into the reputable ones with linkage, like Georgetown or Tufts) but given that you get a 3.7+, you've got a solid shot. Since SMP involves being in a class with med students, it's challenging, but if you can do well, it shows that you can handle the rigor of medical school and will be looked upon very favorably (though be warned that if you do poorly, it'll be a major detriment and you'll be unlikely to get in!)

 

[hopeful320]

Do I have a decent shot at an SMP with my GPA?

 

[Fedekz]

I think your situation, given your high MCAT score, is an ideal case for enrolling in a Special Master's Program (SMP). You'd have to do really well in the SMP program (look into the reputable ones with linkage, like Georgetown or Tufts) but given that you get a 3.7+, you've got a solid shot. Since SMP involves being in a class with med students, it's challenging, but if you can do well, it shows that you can handle the rigor of medical school and will be looked upon very favorably (though be warned that if you do poorly, it'll be a major detriment and you'll be unlikely to get in!)

From what I've heard, the linkage at Georgetown is garbage. They didn't interview a single SMP student from their own program this year (read about it on the GT thread)

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I just recently graduated from college with a biology degree. I finished with just barely above a 3.0 cumulative GPA with an overall GPA of 3.03. I went to a big, public state school and am a Texas resident. I have a few other weaknesses. One weakness is that my BCPM gpa is below a 3.0 and around a 2.7. Another weakness is that I don't really have a trend in my GPA, but most semesters were around a 3.0 GPA with a few outliers. My last weakness is that I have a MIP on my record as well. I also have some strengths. One strength is that my MCAT score is 518, which is quite a bit higher than the average. Another strength is that I have a lot of EC/volunteering experiences. I also have several professors/physicians willing to write great LORs for me. With all of this in consideration, do y'all think I should look into a different career or do I still have a chance?

MIP will need some explaining since it is on record. Look at options for grade replacement on the DO route. You mentioned that you have tons of ECs and volunteering, are these clinical or non-clinical? How are your shadowing hours looking? Any pubs? Sorry for having such a box-checking mentality, you didn't give a ton of details.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think your situation, given your high MCAT score, is an ideal case for enrolling in a Special Master's Program (SMP). You'd have to do really well in the SMP program (look into the reputable ones with linkage, like Georgetown or Tufts) but given that you get a 3.7+, you've got a solid shot. Since SMP involves being in a class with med students, it's challenging, but if you can do well, it shows that you can handle the rigor of medical school and will be looked upon very favorably (though be warned that if you do poorly, it'll be a major detriment and you'll be unlikely to get in!)

SMP is a chance to show how you'll thrive in med school to allay fears. It works best for people who feel they've underperformed but can turn things up a notch. I worry about the person who got consistent 3.0s in college as to whether they can get thst 3.7 when you up the competition and rigor. So it involves a bit of insight. If you think you have it in you, go for it. ( I agree with the other poster that linkage can sometimes be that carrot at the end of the stick -- it's only meaningful if most actually get there, but most people who need an SMP already have a long history of not quite getting those targets. ) Otherwise retaking classes to inch up your GPA with grade replacement for DO seems like higher yield.

 

[Lucca]

Concur with the above. Your two best shots:

1. Retake non-Bs and apply DO
2. Enroll in a post-bacc or SMP to show you can handle medical school.

As my math professor once said, "if you don't change anything, the same person is going to come back and make the same mistakes". Identify why you were unable to obtain As in courses and fix that deficiency.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Like Law2Doc was saying the SMP is the single best way for someone with a bad UG GPA and an otherwise competitive app to overcome the UG GPA weakness.

But the big caveat here is there has to be a reason why you think you will perform at a much higher level in an SMP than in undergrad. In an SMP you are basically going to have to beat out something like 60+ percent of MS1's in their classes for it to be worth it. These MS1's on average have 3.75/32 type stats and are studying way way more than they ever did in UG. When you were in undergrad, for those in SMPs, they couldnt come close to beating out these students even when those students were studying 5X less than they would in med school.

So you gotta ask yourself why did you do poorly. Its one thing to have a 3.2 in college while working 35 hours a week, or having a 3.2 because you had a 2.8 your first two years but your last 2 years you started turning things around and performing at the level of MD matriculants. Its quite another though if the reason you have bad grades is because you have reached much of your learning capacity and ceiling. That's exactly the type of person who will have problems in an SMP when the pressure and difficulty is amped up to an all time high.

Now its not all gloom and doom. At the best SMPs(which honestly these days are the only ones worth a damn IMHO) the majority of grads end up at US MD programs. The turnaround that needs to happen does happen to hundreds of people every year in SMPs. But you gotta realize what you are getting yourself into and realize this is a "last chance/resort" type option where poor performance is the kiss of death. And having said that the average UG GPA at top SMPs is around a 3.3/3.15. OP isnt even close to that. Just because you get into an SMP, doesnt necessairly mean you should always go and that might be the case here.

 

[Goro]

Agree 100%. The SMP is an audition for med school. Based upon our own program, about 25% of the students have underperformed so badly that they were not admitted to our school. You will need to have at least a 3.6 to be competitive for those MD schools that reward reinvention.

SMP is a chance to show how you'll thrive in med school to allay fears. It works best for people who feel they've underperformed but can turn things up a notch. I worry about the person who got consistent 3.0s in college as to whether they can get thst 3.7 when you up the competition and rigor. So it involves a bit of insight. If you think you have it in you, go for it. ( I agree with the other poster that linkage can sometimes be that carrot at the end of the stick -- it's only meaningful if most actually get there, but most people who need an SMP already have a long history of not quite getting those targets. ) Otherwise retaking classes to inch up your GPA with grade replacement for DO seems like higher yield.

Like Law2Doc was saying the SMP is the single best way for someone with a bad UG GPA and an otherwise competitive app to overcome the UG GPA weakness.

But the big caveat here is there has to be a reason why you think you will perform at a much higher level in an SMP than in undergrad. In an SMP you are basically going to have to beat out something like 60+ percent of MS1's in their classes for it to be worth it. These MS1's on average have 3.75/32 type stats and are studying way way more than they ever did in UG. When you were in undergrad, for those in SMPs, they couldnt come close to beating out these students even when those students were studying 5X less than they would in med school.

So you gotta ask yourself why did you do poorly. Its one thing to have a 3.2 in college while working 35 hours a week, or having a 3.2 because you had a 2.8 your first two years but your last 2 years you started turning things around and performing at the level of MD matriculants. Its quite another though if the reason you have bad grades is because you have reached much of your learning capacity and ceiling. That's exactly the type of person who will have problems in an SMP when the pressure and difficulty is amped up to an all time high.

Now its not all gloom and doom. At the best SMPs(which honestly these days are the only ones worth a damn IMHO) the majority of grads end up at US MD programs. The turnaround that needs to happen does happen to hundreds of people every year in SMPs. But you gotta realize what you are getting yourself into and realize this is a "last chance/resort" type option where poor performance is the kiss of death. And having said that the average UG GPA at top SMPs is around a 3.3/3.15. OP isnt even close to that. Just because you get into an SMP, doesnt necessairly mean you should always go and that might be the case here.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Agree 100%. The SMP is an audition for med school. Based upon our own program, about 25% of the students have underperformed so badly that they were not admitted to our school. You will need to have at least a 3.6 to be competitive for those MD schools that reward reinvention.

It all is very specific for each individual SMP program.

The best guide for SMP GPA needed will come from the SMP program itself. For example, a 3.5 from Georgetown's SMP gets a bunch of people into lower tier US MD programs(I've even see 3.3-3.5 types have fair success). For some less known program, a 3.5 is likely to be seen as more iffy. SMPs are very vigilent about this type of stuff; they have all kinds of data about where there people end up, what schools tend ot view their grads favorably, and how people with a certain type of GPA tend to fair in admission. At the end of the day, for the top SMP programs, the majority of their grads get into US MD programs(my rough guess is about 2/3). My guess is if you can have an above average SMP GPA amongst those grads, you are putting yourself in a reasonable position.

DO SMP programs also work a lot differently than MD programs. From what I've heard DO programs tend to only carry about 1/4 of the workload of a med school curriculum. For MD SMP's its closer to 70%(honestly there are programs like Cincy where I've heard 85% being thrown around as an estimate).

 

[hopeful320]

So y'all don't recommend an SMP for me?

 

[deleted659912]

So y'all don't recommend an SMP for me?

Well when do you want to apply? I'm not sure if it's too late to apply to an SMP for next year. In the meanwhile, re-taking classes won't hurt and with that MCAT you have a strong shot at TCOM and possibly other Texas schools if you can bring up the GPA by the time you apply for med school.

 

[hopeful320]

Well I just graduated this month, so I was thinking of taking some post bacc classes in the spring and applying to the UNT SMP, but I don't know if I'm competitive enough to get into that. If I don't get into that, then I guess my only option is taking more post bacc classes.

 

[deleted659912]

Well I'd say apply SMP, re-take any bad grades in the meanwhile and continue improving your app. Frankly without the SMP I don't think that MD would be realistic but I'm not sure how lenient Texas schools are with grades. MSAR should tell you the bottom 10th percentile GPA for every school and if your GPA is lower then you probably don't have a strong chance without a unique hook.

 

[hopeful320]

How is retaking courses at a CC viewed?