AOA Rot. Internship Reqt.

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What's the word on the street these days about getting AOA approval of allopathic PGY1 years as the rotating internship for the Infamous Five? I've heard it has gotten much harder, and that one should basically assume they won't get approval and just do an AOA internship. Truth?

 

[DrMom]

What I have been told is that you shouldn't count on getting an MD residency approved if there is an Osteo residency in the same specialty in the same area (ie: within 90 miles). That said, some MD primary care residencies (PGY1 spots) are basically pre-approved by the AOA to be Osteo internships. I'm not sure how many of these there are, though, & I don't know if any of them are outside of the FM realm.

 

[(nicedream)]

What I have been told is that you shouldn't count on getting an MD residency approved if there is an Osteo residency in the same specialty in the same area (ie: within 90 miles). That said, some MD primary care residencies (PGY1 spots) are basically pre-approved by the AOA to be Osteo internships. I'm not sure how many of these there are, though, & I don't know if any of them are outside of the FM realm.

Great info, thanks. With the specialties that require a transitional year, it's no big deal to do a dual-accredited year. I'm worried about wanting to do an ACGME IM program (non-dual accredited) and later practicing in one of the 5.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Yeah, I really have no desire to practice in any of those five, but things can change so Im either going to have to do a dually accredited program or a DO program.


It is certainly not my preference to do an osteopathic residency (id prefer straight up ACGME or dually accredited), but might have to bite the bullet.....especially since there will be no joint match by that point.

 

[BobBarker]

Dr. Mom,
I noticed on the OSU match list for last year there were several people that match with OU in Tulsa and in OKC. One student matched OU HSC in OKC in anesthesiology. Do you think he probably got the internship year waived? I'm interested in anesthesiology and I'm from the OKC area so this was interesting to me..

 

[GregsAnatomy]

As part of our Medical Jurisprudence class at NSU-COM, we got extra credit if we attended 2 hours of the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine meeting which was being held at our school. Well, I happened to be in attendance when they were reviewing licensure cases (Florida being one of the "infamous five"). Two cases were presented in which D.O.'s from other states were applying for educational equivalency of their ACGME internships. Although neither doctor was there to plead their case in the front of the board, the board unanimously flat out denied the requests with little consideration.

 

[(nicedream)]

As part of our Medical Jurisprudence class at NSU-COM, we got extra credit if we attended 2 hours of the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine meeting which was being held at our school. Well, I happened to be in attendance when they were reviewing licensure cases (Florida being one of the "infamous five"). Two cases were presented in which D.O.'s from other states were applying for educational equivalency of their ACGME internships. Although neither doctor was there to plead their case in the front of the board, the board unanimously flat out denied the requests with little consideration.

Ouch! That's bad news - FL happens to be the state I want to practice in too. Was there any discussion of the cases and the circumstances? I wonder if it's easier to get "pre-approval" of the internship than it is to get it approved after the fact when you want to move. Or if the background of the doctor is considered, ie I've lived in FL all my life.

 

[doc-synergy]

As part of our Medical Jurisprudence class at NSU-COM, we got extra credit if we attended 2 hours of the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine meeting which was being held at our school. Well, I happened to be in attendance when they were reviewing licensure cases (Florida being one of the "infamous five"). Two cases were presented in which D.O.'s from other states were applying for educational equivalency of their ACGME internships. Although neither doctor was there to plead their case in the front of the board, the board unanimously flat out denied the requests with little consideration.

by making and enforcing this rule - the FL board of osteopathic medicine (along with the other 4) is both misusing the purpose of licensure, and denying the public from potentially qualified physicians. i would hope that FL DOs would see this and go through proper channels to try and change the board's requirements. sorry if this sounds inflammatory - but it's the simple truth.

 

[DrMom]

Dr. Mom,
I noticed on the OSU match list for last year there were several people that match with OU in Tulsa and in OKC. One student matched OU HSC in OKC in anesthesiology. Do you think he probably got the internship year waived? I'm interested in anesthesiology and I'm from the OKC area so this was interesting to me..

I've been told that OU-Tulsa's family med program has some sort of agreement with the AOA wherein it is "automatically" approved as equivalent to an osteopathic internship. I don't know anything other than that since I went the DO residency route.

 

[raptor5]

As part of our Medical Jurisprudence class at NSU-COM, we got extra credit if we attended 2 hours of the Florida Board of Osteopathic Medicine meeting which was being held at our school. Well, I happened to be in attendance when they were reviewing licensure cases (Florida being one of the "infamous five"). Two cases were presented in which D.O.'s from other states were applying for educational equivalency of their ACGME internships. Although neither doctor was there to plead their case in the front of the board, the board unanimously flat out denied the requests with little consideration.

What specialty?

I wonder if this means they readily deny licensing of DO residents in Florida ACGME programs... And if so I wonder if it matters what specialty. I would think Family Medicine residents would get approval more easily being that an internship year is an internship year. The only difference b/t a FM ACGME and AOA program is lack of OPP and possibly better training at the ACGME program.

 

[OSUdoc08]

What specialty?

I wonder if this means they readily deny licensing of DO residents in Florida ACGME programs... And if so I wonder if it matters what specialty. I would think Family Medicine residents would get approval more easily being that an internship year is an internship year. The only difference b/t a FM ACGME and AOA program is lack of OPP and possibly better training at the ACGME program.

I know some EM physicians who post regularly on SDN. They were approved in Florida.

 

[raptor5]

I know some EM physicians who post regularly on SDN. They were approved in Florida.

QuinnNSU was a few years ago and that is EM where there is only 1 DO EM program.

 

[GregsAnatomy]

What specialty?

I wonder if this means they readily deny licensing of DO residents in Florida ACGME programs... And if so I wonder if it matters what specialty. I would think Family Medicine residents would get approval more easily being that an internship year is an internship year. The only difference b/t a FM ACGME and AOA program is lack of OPP and possibly better training at the ACGME program.

It's definitely on a case-by-case basis. As I noted above, these two particular cases received by the board happened to both be denied. The board members have laptops with all the information pertinent to the licensure case in front of them at the board meeting, and I would assume most have reviewed it all thoroughly beforehand. These cases may have been denied since the applications for licensure did not meet the board's criteria, or perhaps even because these doctors did not have the courtesy to appear before the board.

If you're planning to try to get Florida licensure with an ACGME residency, be sure to review Flordia Statute 459.006. This states that in order to practice osteopathic medicine in the State of Florida, you must have completed a resident internship of not less than 12 months approved by the AOA, and pass all parts of NBOME examinations no more than 5 years prior to your application. Those who have completed an ACGME PGY1 Internship must apply to the AOA for educational equivalence, and demonstrate a hardship for having taken ACGME internship instead of AOA if found to be equivalent.

What I think we're getting at in this thread is that the osteopathic medical boards in these 5 states are maybe becoming a little more stringent in interpreting what constitutes a "hardship"....(maybe in order to fill AOA internships....?)

 

[(nicedream)]

In order to get approval, does one go through the AOA or the state board? It sounds like the process is:

1. Get the AOA to find it equivalent
2. The state board, when it comes time to apply for licensure, takes this into consideration (and is indeed a minimum requirement for licensure)

I asked a resident recently about this, and she suggested that one call the AOA around residency application time if there's a specific program they're thinking about, and ask about the prospects of getting it approved. The problem with that is applying to IM through the NRMP, where you're going to rank 10 or whatever programs, and don't know where you'll match - and then finding out afterwards that the AOA won't grant you equivalency and you can't practice in your state.

What DrMom said makes sense - for example, those that got easy approval in EM might have had an easy time of it because there are so few DO EM residencies (especially in FL where Quinn did his residency). IM may be a different story. If I, for example, wanted to do USF IM in Tampa, given the fact that there are DO IM programs in St Pete and Largo (within 30 miles), I'm guessing there's no way the AOA (or the FL board) would approve it. 😡

 

[raptor5]

Those who have completed an ACGME PGY1 Internship must apply to the AOA for educational equivalence, and demonstrate a hardship for having taken ACGME internship instead of AOA if found to be equivalent.

It shows they have no interest in students pursuing the best education, only their education. Nice ploy to legitimize the quality of their own training programs. I wonder if my article 42 would be approved if I pleaded that my hardship was that their programs sucked. Probably not. No need to reply just ranting.
I guess this is what we signed up for.
Its hard enough to find great/good FM programs otherwise great DO FM programs. The few I am familiar with would never stand a chance at ACGME accreditation and were appauling at best although there are probably ACGME programs out there that are not much better.