AOA vary by school?

[aloepathic]

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Does the way AOA is awarded vary by school? I've heard from some kids that only your 3rd year grades and Step 1 score matter, but there are also some posts on these boards that seem to imply that the preclinical years also matter. Anyone know for sure?

 

[savant]

It says this on their web site:

Those students chosen from the top quartile for election are picked not only for their high academic standing, but as well for leadership among their peers, professionalism and a firm sense of ethics, promise of future success in medicine, and a commitment to service in the school and community. By adherence to these criteria it has happened that one or more of the highest ranked students by grade point average have not been elected to the society

On wikipedia it says

To this end, only the top medical students were elected, based on criteria such as grades, leadership, ethics, and so on. No more than one-sixth of a medical school's graduating class can be members of AΩA; most of these are elected as fourth-year students ("senior AΩA") although up to one-quarter of them may be elected as third-year students ("junior AΩA").

and

As the years have gone by, membership in AΩA has become highly sought after, especially for those applying to competitive residencies. In many schools, students are ranked based on grades and USMLE Step 1 scores and the top one-sixth are inducted into the society, although this is in conflict with the national guidelines.

It seems like it's fuzzy (i.e. depends on the school) -- I know one school that counts preclinical years

 

[DrJD]

It seems like it's fuzzy (i.e. depends on the school) -- I know one school that counts preclinical years

It also normally depends on whether you are talking about Junior AOA, or Senior AOA... For Junior, all the ones I have seen take into account your grades from the first two years to some degree.

Seems like generally JAOA - Grades first two years, and Step 1 score (There are some comments that this can also be a "popularity contest" so some schools must have some sort of voting system that has to do with popularity.)

Senior AOA - Seems to take into account activities outside of schools such as research. It also looks at clinical grades, etc.

Normally there is a small percentage that are inducted as Juniors, and then a bigger percentage as seniors...

 

[BluntSurgeon]

I am heading to UCSD in the fall and they're one of the handful of schools that do not participate (?) in AOA. I don't even know if participate is the right word. Anyway, the fact that I can't get AOA has me worried because I will be competing for residencies against those who DO have the opportunity to achieve this award. I personally think this is bull****, but there's nothing I can do about it. How big of a deal is this?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

I am heading to UCSD in the fall and they're one of the handful of schools that do not participate (?) in AOA. I don't even know if participate is the right word. Anyway, the fact that I can't get AOA has me worried because I will be competing for residencies against those who DO have the opportunity to achieve this award. I personally think this is bull****, but there's nothing I can do about it. How big of a deal is this?

dont worry..you probably wouldnt have gotten it anyways...no offense

 

[BluntSurgeon]

Double post

 

[BluntSurgeon]

dont worry..you probably wouldnt have gotten it anyways...no offense

I don't know about that. I am phi beta kappa as well as Tau Beta Pi (engineering honor society) and I am pretty damn gunnerish when it comes to my studies and ECs. But hey, thanks Chubby for your worthless response.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Double post

lmao...so is every other person that gets into medical school. Thanks for your worthless post, mr bluntsurgeon.

Phi beta what?? sounds pretty worthless to me.

 

[RoadRunner17]

It's really just a way to say that you were in the top 20-25% of the class.. and that information will still be available to the PDs so it's not a huge loss, I think. Maybe someone who goes to UCSD can comment.

 

[BluntSurgeon]

lmao...so is every other person that gets into medical school. Thanks for your worthless post, mr bluntsurgeon.

Phi beta what?? sounds pretty worthless to me.

This (and your post history) just solidifies my belief that you are the most useless poster on this forum. You make funkydrmonkey look like jesus.

 

[BluntSurgeon]

It's really just a way to say that you were in the top 20-25% of the class.. and that information will still be available to the PDs so it's not a huge loss, I think. Maybe someone who goes to UCSD can comment.

Yea thats kind of what I thought, but I feel like all else equal, an applicant with the letters AOA stapled to their residency application will look better than the applicant with the same exact stats without those letters. Just like what was said above, AOA implies that not only can you handle the coursework, but you an exemplary display of good physician qualities. Oh well though nothing I can really do about it. I hope silverlining responds...

 

[RoadRunner17]

Sorry, I mean top 10-15%.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

This (and your post history) just solidifies my belief that you are the most useless poster on this forum. You make funkydrmonkey look like jesus.

blaspheme funkymonkey cant be jesus...hes some other kind of religion? BUt nice to know youve gone back through all my posts.

 

[RoadRunner17]

Yea thats kind of what I thought, but I feel like all else equal, an applicant with the letters AOA stapled to their residency application will look better than the applicant with the same exact stats without those letters. Oh well though nothing I can really do about it. I hope silverlining responds...

Well, I'm sure the PDs will know that there is no AOA at UCSD.. they're not gonna hold it against you. Just my guess. 😕

 

[RoadRunner17]

blaspheme funkymonkey cant be jesus...hes some other kind of religion? BUt nice to know youve gone back through all my posts.

You're a popular guy Chubbs.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

You're a popular guy Chubbs.

must be..everyone else keeps tabs on everything I say...I dont even know what I say half the time. Like that FB quiz haha

 

[Bacchus]

Stay on topic

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Stay on topic

k..Bluntsurgeon you are right..being phi beta kappa definitely means you would have gotten AOA at UCSD...im sorry for questioning your superior intellect and gunner skills, please forgive me?

 

[RoadRunner17]

must be..everyone else keeps tabs on everything I say...I dont even know what I say half the time. Like that FB quiz haha

Hahaha that was a stroke of genius, you should get AOA just for coming up with that.

Ok to stay on topic, I was talking to my PI today who went to a relatively podunk state school. He said that he was in the top 10% of the class and got AOA, but in retrospect it wasn't AOA that helped him, it was the stats and non-numerical stuff that led to AOA, that actually helped him secure a competitive peds residency spot at CHOP (in addition to interviewing at CHB, and other top pediatric hospitals etc.). That's just n=1 but it makes sense.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

I am heading to UCSD in the fall and they're one of the handful of schools that do not participate (?) in AOA. I don't even know if participate is the right word. Anyway, the fact that I can't get AOA has me worried because I will be competing for residencies against those who DO have the opportunity to achieve this award. I personally think this is bull****, but there's nothing I can do about it. How big of a deal is this?

UCSD has their Golden Something or another... UCSD is pretty reknown for their med students, and PDs do know that there is no AOA there, so membership into the Golden XXXXXX would be seen as equal...AFAIK...

Oh and thanks🙄

 

[BluntSurgeon]

k..Bluntsurgeon you are right..being phi beta kappa definitely means you would have gotten AOA at UCSD...im sorry for questioning your superior intellect and gunner skills, please forgive me?

You are forgiven. Thank you for finally acknowledging the greatness, may you thrive in my shadow.

And hey Funkydr, you know I am just playing.. PS I still intend on attaching you to my dartmouth withdrawal letter aha. It will probably reach there next week though.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Hahaha that was a stroke of genius, you should get AOA just for coming up with that.

Ok to stay on topic, I was talking to my PI today who went to a relatively podunk state school. He said that he was in the top 10% of the class and got AOA, but in retrospect it wasn't AOA that helped him, it was the stats and non-numerical stuff that led to AOA, that actually helped him secure a competitive peds residency spot at CHOP (in addition to interviewing at CHB, and other top pediatric hospitals etc.). That's just n=1 but it makes sense.

I think thats how it all is...being phi kappa phi or whatever the hell i got didnt help me get in, but having the stats to get nominated did.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

You are forgiven. Thank you for finally acknowledging the greatness, may you thrive in my shadow.

And hey Funkydr, you know I am just playing.. PS I still intend on attaching you to my dartmouth withdrawal letter aha. It will probably reach there next week though.

Aww, thanks😍😍😍

 

[BluntSurgeon]

Aww, thanks😍😍😍

Us Hindu Homies have to stick together.

And as a reply to roadrunner's n=1 story: I don't disagree with what your PI said. It totally makes sense that the stats and stuff would stand out on their own. I kind of look at AOA (and PBK, TBP, and other honor societies) as sort of a "letter of recommendation." By being elected to AOA, it says that this group of successful individuals thinks you exemplify what it takes to be a bulletproof doctor and by association, a successful individual. I do think that a solid first two year performance and a high Step 1 score would imply the same thing, but those letters are simply corroboration of those stats. Personally, I feel like residency apps are somewhat subjective and every little bit helps.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

Us Hindu Homies have to stick together.

And as a reply to roadrunner's n=1 story: I don't disagree with what your PI said. It totally makes sense that the stats and stuff would stand out on their own. I kind of look at AOA (and PBK, TBP, and other honor societies) as sort of a "letter of recommendation." By being elected to AOA, it says that this group of successful individuals thinks you exemplify what it takes to be a bulletproof doctor and by association, a successful individual. I do think that a solid first two year performance and a high Step 1 score would imply the same thing, but those letters are simply corroboration of those stats. Personally, I feel like residency apps are somewhat subjective and every little bit helps.

Wait, would you learning that I am actually not Hindu preclude you from including me on the withdrawal letter? But the fact that you are an Indian Male from California does slightly increase my chances since they look at demographics when trying to fill the class up😀

 

[BluntSurgeon]

Wait, would you learning that I am actually not Hindu preclude you from including me on the withdrawal letter? But the fact that you are an Indian Male from California does slightly increase my chances since they look at demographics when trying to fill the class up😀

Yea I am not hindu either, I just enjoy saying hindu homies since "brown people" and "desi" are both gay.

But yea I actually didn't think about it in those terms.. If I drop out, they are going to be looking for another studly Indian pre-med from california to replace a studly Indian pre-med from california.

Personally FDM.. UTSW is a freaking phenomenal school that offers a fantastic education at a unbeatable price. I have another friend heading to UTSW and based on what he's told me, it's the best place to be if you can't stay in cali. When all was said and done, Dartmouth was looking like $60-70k/year and I just can't fathom paying that much, even for an ivy.

 

[funkydrmonkey]

Yea I am not hindu either, I just enjoy saying hindu homies since "brown people" and "desi" are both gay.

True, although I use Desi when I am talking to other Indian people, when no other non-Indian people are present...

But yea I actually didn't think about it in those terms.. If I drop out, they are going to be looking for another studly Indian pre-med from california to replace a studly Indian pre-med from california.

Personally FDM.. UTSW is a freaking phenomenal school that offers a fantastic education at a unbeatable price. I have another friend heading to UTSW and based on what he's told me, it's the best place to be if you can't stay in cali. When all was said and done, Dartmouth was looking like $60-70k/year and I just can't fathom paying that much, even for an ivy.

Whoa, seriously... I thought Dartmouth gave A LOT of scholarship money... that is partially the reason I 😍 them so much... Don't get me wrong, I love UTSW. I started jumping around the library when I got accepted to UTSW and was afraid I was gonna be banned from the library... it is just, I dunno, something about Dartmouth was really nice... But it will come down to a matter of finances...

 

[ChubbyChaser]

True, although I use Desi when I am talking to other Indian people, when no other non-Indian people are present...



Whoa, seriously... I thought Dartmouth gave A LOT of scholarship money... that is partially the reason I 😍 them so much... Don't get me wrong, I love UTSW. I started jumping around the library when I got accepted to UTSW and was afraid I was gonna be banned from the library... it is just, I dunno, something about Dartmouth was really nice... But it will come down to a matter of finances...

from what i understood dartmouth gives no merit aid