AP only and F*ck the CP?

[Thaitanium]

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Hey guys,

I have a question in regards to this AP only track. I was wondering what jobs are available for someone who just completes an AP only track (3 years). I am an older graduate (will be 31 yo and will start residency at 32) and I am interested in doing one fellowship (dermpath). If I dont get into a fellowship first time around, what options are available for me in terms of jobs given that I only have AP?

I just cant envision myself doing any CP work. I see myself in private practice reading slides all day everyday. I believe in dermpath, most jobs require you to only read slides all day and there is no CP work. Is this true? If so, I say f*ck CP. I also don't want to deal with studying for the CP boards anyways, which I hear (from you guys) is close to impossible.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Not sure you can get away with being AP only in private practice, but probably depends on what you can bring to the table. I would make the assumption that most groups would want someone who was able to take call pertaining to the clin lab though, which might make it more challenging to land a job being AP only.

If studying for and passing the CP boards was as close to impossible as everyone implies, wouldn't we see a first time pass rate hovering in the 5-10% range? Not really a legit reason to avoid CP if you ask me, but if you absolutely hate it, well, then don't do it.

 

[yaah]

Hey guys,

I have a question in regards to this AP only track. I was wondering what jobs are available for someone who just completes an AP only track (3 years). I am an older graduate (will be 31 yo and will start residency at 32) and I am interested in doing one fellowship (dermpath). If I dont get into a fellowship first time around, what options are available for me in terms of jobs given that I only have AP?

The CP boards are not close to impossible. The pass rate for first time takers last year was over 75% if I am remembering right. That's not even close to impossible. It may be a difficult test with lots of obscure questions, but if you study and are trained well you should be able to pass.

You can get private jobs with AP only, we had a graduate last year who did. Generally though you need something to make up for lack of CP training, like a fellowship in a competitive area (derm would do it). It is taking a chance though. CP training adds one year to your training, and this one year you can use to broaden your knowledge and do other things. Since you are interested in derm, you are also going to have to apply at the end of your first year. Is your application competitive enough already? You won't be able to accomplish a ton of CV-building during only your first year.

What happened to GI? Not enough money?

 

[mrp]

I recently dropped CP and went AP only, with an interest in GI/Liver. I haven't done a GI/liver fellowship--only a general surg path fellowship, although I am probably going to spend a few months out at a liver path powerhouse like Pittsburgh sometime in the next year.

I didn't really like CP (I did one year) and there was a great surg path only job immediately available. I also am not that interested in private practice, although I have heard it is possible to work in PP with AP only (just harder to find a job). And, as an added bonus, I no longer have to sweat about CP boards, and I don't have to worry about re-taking CP boards periodically in the future. It would be difficult to keep my CP knowledge base given that I am currently doing exactly zero CP.

It's probably naive, but I figure that if I really good at something that is in demand (i.e. surg path and gi/liver), things will work themselves out. I didn't want to be a jack of all trades. Ask me in 10 years if I regret dropping CP.

 

[Acremonium]

CP boards aren't impossible to pass, they are just impossible to do well on.

I estimate that the percentage of questions needed to pass hovers around the 30% mark, because there is no way I got more than that right.

While you take the test, you do not feel that studying or the teaching that was done during residency were of any help.

 

[dermpathdoc]

The problem is that is some states if you want to set up a lab for say a derm group you need to have the CP in order to get the medical director's license....I am a dermatopathologist who reads mostly skins in our hospital group. I dont read cytologies...and I gross and read all of the skins as we have an outside contract for derm with a large reference lab..however..I strill have to contribute to the group with taking call and am the groups asst medical director..which i could not be without my CP training.
Of course all of you new guys and gals have to think about the recert issue and if taking the SAM's every other year and recerting in CP is gonna be worth your while....

Hey guys,

I have a question in regards to this AP only track. I was wondering what jobs are available for someone who just completes an AP only track (3 years). I am an older graduate (will be 31 yo and will start residency at 32) and I am interested in doing one fellowship (dermpath). If I dont get into a fellowship first time around, what options are available for me in terms of jobs given that I only have AP?

I just cant envision myself doing any CP work. I see myself in private practice reading slides all day everyday. I believe in dermpath, most jobs require you to only read slides all day and there is no CP work. Is this true? If so, I say f*ck CP. I also don't want to deal with studying for the CP boards anyways, which I hear (from you guys) is close to impossible.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[yaah]

Well, it remains to be seen about issues regarding the recert issues. Rumors are that the recert exams are going to be far less challenging than the originals. The ABP has to deal with the fact that many pathologists (particularly those who subspecialize) are going to have to recert in AP yet their only knowledge is in GI, or whatever. CP is similar. It will probably be a different exam.

 

[abefromann]

how much of getting dermpath is connections, and how much is research and step scores?

 

[CameronFrye]

how much of getting dermpath is connections, and how much is research and step scores?

Almost completely step scores. (Especially CS).

 

[sohsie]

Almost completely step scores. (Especially CS).

Actually, MCAT scores are much more important. Especially the essay portion. If you didnt get a T, you can forget it.

 

[abefromann]

so connections then? 🙂

 

[yaah]

so connections then? 🙂

If you're counting on one aspect of your application to break down the doors for you, that's usually the problem. It's never one thing that makes a difference.

 

[Thaitanium]

Abe-

what are you doing here? Aren't you the sausage king of chicago?

 

[abefromann]

i think 'counting on' anything as a sure thing for a competitive field is dumb. what i mean by my questions are do connections seem to help, in your experience, since my step scores are not in the 240+ range.

 

[abefromann]

i am the sausage king of chicago, btw. business is slow.

 

[yaah]

i think 'counting on' anything as a sure thing for a competitive field is dumb. what i mean by my questions are do connections seem to help, in your experience, since my step scores are not in the 240+ range.

What do you think? Common sense would dictate yes, correct? Anything that distinguishes you as a candidate is a good thing, whether it is a high board score, writing a well known paper, or being recommended who the fellowship director knows well and respects.

 

[abefromann]

thank you for the response, but the testiness level is surprising on this forum.

 

[yaah]

thank you for the response, but the testiness level is surprising on this forum.

Testiness varies. It increases when people ask the same questions that have already been asked many times, and their post consists of a single line without any other information. I'm sorry if you're offended, but that's the way things are. You get better responses if you are more original, more forthcoming, and also if you are more helpful to others instead of only coming by to post one line questions.

And to be honest, your question was fairly obvious. "Do connections help?" If you can find me someone who says "no" to that, I would be shocked.

 

[abefromann]

i hear you. but forthcoming? this is an anonymous post for a reason. applicants have a lot to lose and don't want to reveal too much about themselves. sorry if i didn't use the craptastic search tool to find what i was looking for. you could have just NOT answered if you found my neophyte question annoying. by the way, this icon looks like a cervix, doesn't it?

 

[yaah]

Not sure I would have come up with a cervix on that one. You have an interesting eye.

You can be forthcoming without being revealing. You don't have to say "I am a 4th year med student at Ivy League State" if you don't want to, but it doesn't reveal too much to give a general situation, what your interests are, background, etc. I think people worry a bit too much about anonymity and how much others care. You can post plenty of information, questions, etc, without giving away anything identifying if that is your concern. In this case, we get tons of questions about dermpath, and the majority seem to be either "why is dermpath so competitive" or "am I competitive for dermpath" or similar questions, and I think we all get tired of responding to them so generically.

I agree the search function isn't the best. I have raised that issue before and there are fixes in the works I think, but a lot of it is just limited by the technology of the server and interface.

 

[abefromann]

I hear you. Plus, it must get pretty annoying to continually field responses to questions about dermpath, when you know most of the candidates are doing it not for genuine interest but for the benjamins. I won't lie and say it's not in part because of the money, but there is some interest there as well (otherwise I'd go nuts looking at SKs and superficial/nodular BCCs, which are seemingly 50% of the cases they read).

 

[EUA]

i hear you. but forthcoming? this is an anonymous post for a reason. applicants have a lot to lose and don't want to reveal too much about themselves. sorry if i didn't use the craptastic search tool to find what i was looking for. you could have just NOT answered if you found my neophyte question annoying. by the way, this icon looks like a cervix, doesn't it?

Heh. You're kind of funny. And yes, it totally looks like a cervix, albeit an angry, inflamed, trichomonas-infected one.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hey guys,

I have a question in regards to this AP only track. I was wondering what jobs are available for someone who just completes an AP only track (3 years). I am an older graduate (will be 31 yo and will start residency at 32) and I am interested in doing one fellowship (dermpath). If I dont get into a fellowship first time around, what options are available for me in terms of jobs given that I only have AP?

I just cant envision myself doing any CP work. I see myself in private practice reading slides all day everyday. I believe in dermpath, most jobs require you to only read slides all day and there is no CP work. Is this true? If so, I say f*ck CP. I also don't want to deal with studying for the CP boards anyways, which I hear (from you guys) is close to impossible.

Thanks for any advice.

Job opportunities are relatively slim if you're AP only and want to go into the private practice realm. If you want to do academics, AP only is just fine...but you'll sacrifice a lot of money compared to private practice.

It really depends on what you want to do with your life. It's all about relative gains and losses...are you willing to make extra cash to have part of your job involve something you don't like to do?

 

[abefromann]

Seems like many people here don't really like CP. I'm more into AP and like hemepath and dermpath (and neuropath). There's a dude at my school who's AP/CP/Heme-boarded doing purely academics and pulling in roughly 300K a year in a smaller Midwestern university (he told us; it's not a rumor). With the cost of living around here -- you can get a very large, very charming English-style house for like 350 with good schools near it-- that's damn good. Now -- do you think he could pull that in without being able to cover the clinical lab and blood bank? My guess is not. I mean what's the disparity between academic salary and private? Is it as much as in other specialties? For instance, a dermatologist I know in Columbus makes nearly one million a year, but has 4 PAs, works doggishly, and cuts corners left and right. An academic dermatologist in my area told me that her own academic (guaranteed) salary is only 110K. I have no idea what she makes additionally off the top of her practice in the hospital.

It seems common to more than double your salary by going private in most specialties, so wouldn't it make sense just to stick it out and do the extra year and board in CP too? Or would being AP only and picking up an extra fellowship (hemepath, surgpath) potentially give you that 200+ academic gig?

 

[l&usibari]

I am interested in doing one fellowship (dermpath). If I dont get into a fellowship first time around, what options are available for me in terms of jobs given that I only have AP?

You make it sound like an either/or proposition. May I suggest another possibility? Only switch to AP-only if you obtain your fellowship of choice. If you don't get the fellowship the first time around, then stay AP/CP. Then apply again for your fellowship, if you so desire.