APA accred. while in program

[mewtoo]

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I have a really great research match with one of the clinical professors at the North Dakota State University's clinical program, but there is a catch. It isn't APA accredited yet as its only going into its 3rd year of existence (or that's at least what I interpreted). Now here is where the confusion begins. From reading on SDN in the past, I thought that I read that if your program becomes accredited while you are still in the program you could say your program was APA accred. I emailed the POI at the school and asked if the program could be accred. by the time I went on internship or at least by the time I graduate (banking on the program meeting all the requirements). She replied that they are going to try for APA accred. but for you to claim you went to a APA accred. program it has to be APA accred. at the time of admission. So was I misinformed, the rules changed, what she said not quite right, etc.?

If the program is not APA accred. and if she's right I will not apply to the program, but I just wanted to make sure before crossing it off the list since the research match is so strong. I tried searching SDN and wasn't really able to find an answer. Thanks if you can elucidate what is going on. 🙂

 

[paramour]

I'm not going to be help answering your question (although I do believe this was discussed in one of those threads, maybe one with 4410's posts?), but I really wouldn't gamble it regardless. I recall programs that had applied for APA accreditation during my own application process that still had not received it or were not granted it years later. I personally wouldn't want to take the chance.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

To quote APA:

Award of "accredited" status is effective on the final day of the site visit preceding the Commission on Accreditation's (CoA) decision to grant such status. Students who are in the program on that date and subsequently complete the program are considered to be graduates of an accredited program, provided, of course, that the program maintains an accredited status through the date of the students' graduation. Thus, programs are accredited beginning with the site visit, and accreditation is not retroactive.

Thus, it sounds like your initial thought was correct--if you're in the program when it actually gains accreditation (which is dated as the date of the site visit), you're on record as graduating from an accredited program. I believe that in the previous thread you're alluding to, the poster was stating that accreditation is retroactive even for those who had already graduated. This would only be the case if the individual were somehow present on the final day of the site visit, but then graduated before accreditation was granted. And even then, I wouldn't want to chance it myself.

If the program is in their third year, they likely haven't graduated a class yet. To the best of my knowledge, one of the requirements of accreditation is that they successfully graduate at least one class (perhaps more), which requires that those classes complete internships...which, given the current climate, can be tough. If the program is thought to be strong, internship sites may be willing to accept applicants, knowing that it's required to gain accreditation. But again, it's still ultimately a risk.

 

[mewtoo]

Yes, I'm pretty sure they haven't had a cohort get far enough along to even apply for internship (let alone graduate) because they have those areas on their admissions stats labeled n/a. I thought they had to have a cohort graduate before they can go for accred. too, so that's why I was wondering about this whole thing because by the time I get close to applying for internship they should have at least one cohort graduate...

Hmmm, I wonder if she said that to deter me in any way? I told her that I wanted to go to an APA accred. program to not close any doors even though I currently want to go into academia and do research. Oh, well. I suppose it wouldn't be worth the future hassle just to have a research match, especially considering I've found quite a few matches at accredited programs.

Thanks for the advice, thinking about it more and having others mirror my own doubts about it... I guess I'll just scratch it off my list.

 

[futureapppsy2]

IIRC, it's in its second year of existence, but I could be wrong.

Although I'm usually one to say APA accreditation standards are much too lax (see the number of sketchy FSPS out there), I will say that I think this particular accreditation rule re: graduating a class before accreditation can be granted is unfair to programs and students, particularly very solid, funded, university-based programs. I have no doubt from what I know of it that NDSU will be an excellent clinical science program or that its first class of graduates will probably be every bit as qualified as grads from APA-accredited university-based programs.

 

[mewtoo]

IIRC, it's in its second year of existence, but I could be wrong.

Although I'm usually one to say APA accreditation standards are much too lax (see the number of sketchy FSPS out there), I will say that I think this particular accreditation rule re: graduating a class before accreditation can be granted is unfair to programs and students, particularly very solid, funded, university-based programs. I have no doubt from what I know of it that NDSU will be an excellent clinical science program or that its first class of graduates will probably be every bit as qualified as grads from APA-accredited university-based programs.

It may only be in its second year. Looking back at their website, I think I was wrong.

I was wondering about the fairness of that too. Its unfair to the program because so many students will turn away because of the uphill battle it would cause to go to a non-APA accred. program and unfair to the students that don't go because people will assume their education was sub-par.
Looking from the stats of incoming students their stats were along the lines of other programs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

One thing to keep in mind is that, at least to the best of my knowledge, internship sites do tend to often know whether a program isn't accredited because it's essentially subpar, or because it's brand new but is solidly in line to gain accred. When the latter is the case, many sites seem to be willing to give the program, and its students, the benefit of the doubt. My internship TD directly told us at some point over the past year, "we'll at least review applications for people from non-accredited programs because we understand they need to graduate folks to become accredited, and hey, at some point we were all there."

 

[Butterfly6]

Has anyone from NDSU said they will be applying or are in the process of applying for APA accreditation for the clinical program?

 

[mewtoo]

Has anyone from NDSU said they will be applying or are in the process of applying for APA accreditation for the clinical program?

The professor that emailed me back from NDSU said that they would pursue accreditation when eligible.

 

[cara susanna]

When NDSU formed their clinical science program, they promised to state legislature that they would not pursue accreditation. Soooo I'm not really sure how this will go for them. If they pursue it, I bet UND will throw a fit.

 

[PsychBrownBag]

The entire faculty has stated that they will pursue it. The program is remarkably strong given its youth and I have no doubt it will work out for them. Definitely understand the reservations you might have though.

 

[mewtoo]

When NDSU formed their clinical science program, they promised to state legislature that they would not pursue accreditation. Soooo I'm not really sure how this will go for them. If they pursue it, I bet UND will throw a fit.

Why? Are they worried about competition between the two programs or something?

 

[cara susanna]

Yes, ND is not very populous and the question was why another program of the same type (80 miles apart from the other might I add, in a state that stretches over 200-300 miles) had to be formed. NDSU had to demonstrate to the state legislature that there was a need for another clinical psychology PhD program. They did so by claiming that their program was entirely different and would not serve as competition to UND.

 

[Butterfly6]

I back up Cara Susanna. NDSU made a big promise to the state not to seek accreditation. So who are they telling the truth to - potential future students or the state? Red flag from some direction. You decide.

 

[LETSGONYR]

This may be a bit of a naive question, but for that program, is accreditation that big a deal?

From the website: "If you are primarily interested in an academic career, have a strong commitment to research, and would like to teach, then consider us further. If you are mostly interested in a career providing assessment and treatment services in health and mental health settings, we will not be a good fit for you."

Is accreditation really important for purely research/academic careers? I know that if you want to teach in a clinical program you will most likely need your license, but if you wanted to teach undergraduates and conduct research, it seems to be a bit unnecessary.

It seems like accreditation is important for licensure and internships, but is it important for non-clinical careers?

Of course, I'm already in an APA-accredited program and planning on a clinical career, but I'm curious. 🙂.

EDIT: Their program DOES require an internship, my mistake. Obviously not being accredited could make that requirement much harder to attain.

 

[mewtoo]

This may be a bit of a naive question, but for that program, is accreditation that big a deal?

From the website: "If you are primarily interested in an academic career, have a strong commitment to research, and would like to teach, then consider us further. If you are mostly interested in a career providing assessment and treatment services in health and mental health settings, we will not be a good fit for you."

Is accreditation really important for purely research/academic careers? I know that if you want to teach in a clinical program you will most likely need your license, but if you wanted to teach undergraduates and conduct research, it seems to be a bit unnecessary.

It seems like accreditation is important for licensure and internships, but is it important for non-clinical careers?

Of course, I'm already in an APA-accredited program and planning on a clinical career, but I'm curious. 🙂.

EDIT: Their program DOES require an internship, my mistake.

Although, right now, I largely see an academic/research career ahead of me, as I said before I don't want to "close any doors." Working at the VA (and I'm sure some other types of institutions and some whole states!) requires you did everything APA accredited. I don't want to go to a non-APA program and thus make it where I can't work at the VA or in Oklahoma (and no telling where else will eventually have this policy as legislation is always changing) 20 or 40 years down the line. I've read about people changing from research oriented to clinical oriented and vice versa, people not being able to find academic careers and needing to "fall back" on clinical work, or people just wanting to change it up or do part time teaching and part time clinical work. I guess I just like to have all my bases covered and don't like having any setbacks that I could blame myself for in the future. For their program it may or may not be a big deal, but for me it is.

 

[LETSGONYR]

Although, right now, I largely see an academic/research career ahead of me, as I said before I don't want to "close any doors." Working at the VA (and I'm sure some other types of institutions and some whole states!) requires you did everything APA accredited. I don't want to go to a non-APA program and thus make it where I can't work at the VA or in Oklahoma (and no telling where else will eventually have this policy as legislation is always changing) 20 or 40 years down the line. I've read about people changing from research oriented to clinical oriented and vice versa, people not being able to find academic careers and needing to "fall back" on clinical work, or people just wanting to change it up or do part time teaching and part time clinical work. I guess I just like to have all my bases covered and don't like having any setbacks that I could blame myself for in the future. For their program it may or may not be a big deal, but for me it is.

That makes a lot of sense. Best of luck to you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using SDN Mobile

 

[PsychPsyance]

Just to ensure there's no confusion. A person is said to have graduated from an APA accreditated program if they grdauate on or after the date that accrediation is conferred. They can not retroactively claim to have graduated from an accredited program if they graduated prior to the date accreditation is conferred.



As for NDSU. The clinical science program is working very hard to ensure it meets the requirements for accreditation. The program intends to seek accreditation once it has met these requirements (this, of course, means graduating some students; the program is currently in its second year).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

These kinds of situations are always a bit of a rub because the mentorship is probably very good, though the APA-acred. issue can follow a person for their career if they have any inclination of wanting to do clinical work. If I were considering a program that was not currently APA-acred., I'd only really consider it if I was 100% sure I was going to be an academic working in an area that is not directly related to clinical work (experimental psych, I/O, etc) or if there were at least a few cohorts ahead of me. Theoretically the first class can graduate and the program can be acred. with them, but any bumps in the road and that class doesn't graduated with APA-acred. status and revisions are needed. I'd want a few cohorts because I'd hope any revisions could be made in that gap time. There is always the risk of a program pulling out of the process. Legit programs can withdraw from the process, but I have not heard of more than 1 (who I believe later re-applied and was granted APA-acred. status when they had the faculty support and infrastructure that was requested).

OP...do you know where they are in the acred. process? There are a number of steps that need to be done (e.g. a ton of paperwork, self-study, etc), so you'll want to see how far they are along in that part of the process.