PhD/PsyD Appic applications,interviews and match day: What i would have changed

[bebe1986]

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Hi guys congratulations to those who matched and my sincere sympathy for those did not. I know this maybe too soon but this post is coming from a place of anxiety. I am going to apply this year and i am viewed as my program's underdog. Nobody expects me to make it to the interviews...i admit i started really poorly but i have made so much progress (i have proposed my dissertation and i am the collecting data this summer)

Anyway i digress:

If you could do it all over again; what would you change? what would you not? what helped you?

 

[erg923]

Well, letters are certainly a big part of getting in the door. Do you have concerns about getting good letters given your stated reputation? That really needs to be a priority for you.

 

[WisNeuro]

I wouldn't have spent so much time on my essays. Those things are relatively useless in evaluating applicants. They screen out, but they don't help differentiate the top at all.

My letters of rec were all solid, and one was from a well known individual in my subfield. Other then that, my training, research, and clinical experiences had a logical narrative and showed that I had the background for what I was applying for.

I think the only thing I would have changed was to tried to actually have my dissertation defended before I went on internship, but that would have been a tall order.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree with both what WisNeuro and erg have said--letters should be a priority, as they often factor fairly heavily into the decision (particularly if they're extreme in either direction--very glowing or glum/lackluster). I'd also agree with not spending too much time on essays, with the caveat that essay 1 (at least in my experiences) is still fairly important; if folks pay a lot of attention to any of them, it's that one. I also actually placed some emphasis on the research and treatment essays, although not often as much because that sort of information can be gleaned via the CV.

I spent a decent amount of time on each site's cover letter (~1 hour, including time researching to include site-specific info), and would definitely recommend doing the same. I also reviewed sites' and interviewers' areas/interests before meeting with them so that I'd actually have something to talk about if there were any lulls in the conversation. Beyond that, just try to actually enjoy all the trips you'll potentially be taking.

Oh, and as T4C has mentioned on here numerous times before--enroll in rewards programs (flights, hotels, etc.). You'll probably end up with a few free flights and stays when everything's said and done.

As for you being an underdog, are there specific reasons your program feels you won't be selected to interview (and that's some rough feedback, btw)?

 

[bebe1986]

Yes i am really worried about that. I know i will get two excellent letters from both my research and clinical supervisors but i am still contemplating on who to ask for the third. One person, i know will give me a good but ordinary one. The other has the potential to give me an excellent one but we have a long troubled history. Although she has seen and is probably responsible for most of my growth, she has also seen me at my worst. Considering the rest of my cohort all appear to be super, i am not sure how fair she can be.

 

[erg923]

There is not much I would do differently really, as I matched, my intenrship was just fine, and it served me well in obtaining an academic position and then my current VA position. I would have preferred to match to VA closer to my hometown, so perhaps I would have prepped more for that interview, but I am here now, so whatev. I would recommend NOT flying through mutiple times zones and expecting to go to bed without problems and be rested for an 8am interview. Big mistake there. I felt like **** through that whole interview.

-Have one trusted facuilty member reveiw essays, not 3 or 4.
-Make sure the places you apply to fit with your training expericnes and goals, but ALSO help fill gaps in your training. They want to be of service to you too. That part of the "fit" factor.
-Know how to discuss emprically based treatment (for most places anyway).

 

[erg923]

Yes i am really worried about that. I know i will get two excellent letters from both my research and clinical supervisors but i am still contemplating on who to ask for the third. One person, i know will give me a good but ordinary one. The other has the potential to give me an excellent one but we have a long troubled history. Although she has seen and is probably responsible for most of my growth, she has also seen me at my worst. Considering the rest of my cohort all appear to be super, i am not sure how fair she can be.

One of mine actually came from a first year prac (2nd year) supervisor. He spoke about how he had seen and heard about the growth in my skills AND spoke very highly of me personally/ethically/morally, since we had become rather close over the years. I used to spend time with him randomly talking about art, music, religion, etc.

 

[bebe1986]

Well i am from a different country so that probably contributed to my first year being rough. It was very difficult for me to form friendships with my cohort and ask for help. I felt my attempts were rejected(that is my opinion and it may be flawed) and i was looked down upon.

Anyway long story short i ended up with a B- in one of my classes and that meant i failed the class(I retook it and had an A-. I haven't had less than an A- since my first year). From then on everyone wrote me off. So i was plagued with self doubt and depression, because i wasn't sure whether i actually deserved to be in the program or i was filling their diversity quota, so i kind of just laid low. That is i would do well in all my classes but just be quiet when it comes to program events.
Another wrench in my situation is that i have a very thick accent and communication is not my strongest area(i used to suck at presentations, i have improved but there still some difficulties). So even though i am doing good on paper the faculty think i am the village idiot because i have difficulty in articulating what i know verbally.
When it comes to clients some how my accent doesn't seem to matter, i am able build rapport with them and clinical supervisor describes me as warm.

I am planning on seeking speech services to help me with this problem over the summer but at this point i am not sure if it will be too late.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I agree with the above. I spent serious soul-searching time on my essay #1. I agree also with tailoring each cover letter, too. I had basic body paragraphs that articulated who I was, my training goals, etc. but most of each cover letter (beginning & ending paragraphs) were all about those things that attracted me to each program. So I spent considerable time reviewing each program brochure to see (and imagine) how I would fit into what they had to offer. And I rejected 4 sites that I originally had planned to apply after this tedious OCD-like process. (Also, I had a B- in one class...shhhh...it was the semester I gave birth to my 3rd child and the class was demanding, but overall I can't imagine that it flawed my application...no one ever asked about it...there was too much to discuss during the interviews & not enough time for everything - I liken it to 'speed dating' not that I have experienced speed dating...but seems fitting b/c you're both wooing each other).

IMO as a peer, your accent may be your perception (and anxiety steaming from that perception). In my experience, cultural-variety makes a treatment team stronger because of the unique experiences (I'm foreign also, but without an accent b/c I grew up in the US...but I'm sensitive to believing others' accents are acceptable/fine b/c most of my older generation relatives have thick foreign accents).

Now, I didn't get a ton of interviews (6/16) but some advice given is you only need ONE program to match, so give each interview all of your enthusiasm, professionalism and heart, and you'll be picking and choosing which one is best for you: I matched at my #1...it was my #1 going into interviews and #1 coming out of interviews...so I was thrilled to match, but I figured my interview and focused-attention on the internship site itself had a lot to do with it...like, how could they NOT know I thought they were the cat's meow!? I even intentionally planned it as my last interview so all others - one being a "higher-end," Ivy League Medical Center - were virtually trial runs in retrospect. But that's me, I had to be very strategic because I had training goals, geographical restrictions, and family planning to contend with when choosing a site that fit most of my needs (as I'm sure we all have similar intense needs), and this site was who I could best serve & maintain my longer-term interests - like Trauma/DV research.

Good luck...and shed that black-sheep-of-my-program BS...you're on equal footing once APPIC is complete. Be loud and proud! (I'm all for sharing some ego-strength with fellow SDNers.)

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Less coffee 🙂 For real though. If you're a java-junkie watch that stuff. I was a jittery mess for my first few interviews.

 

[psych84]

I would recommend NOT flying through mutiple times zones and expecting to go to bed without problems and be rested for an 8am interview. Big mistake there. I felt like **** through that whole interview.

Sleeping in hotels is just hard in general, imo.

 

[bebe1986]

Thanks CheetahGirl, i didn't mean to "play the violin", i just wanted to answer AcronymAllergy's question. All said and done, i am grateful for the opportunity to learn.

Any other suggestions? Not for me in particular but for other people who are planning on applying and so they may also benefit from the information

 

[SAP76]

.

 

[EmotRegulation]

You have to get to this stage first (doing things others have said--get letters you expect will be good, work on essay 1, tailor your cover letters and apply wisely to programs that are good fits for your training experiences and future needs), but I'd concentrate heavily on preparing for the interview phase. Great that you're going to work with a speech person over the summer--particularly if it helps your confidence. An accent isn't a kiss of death but if you're difficult to understand AND super nervous, those two things could hurt you badly in interviews. Personally I'd suggest that you push through your discomfort and try to talk to people in your program more, attend events, talk in class, practice talking to other folks using psychological language, because you'll need to do it. Move through the discomfort NOW so that it's not as much of an issue when you're interviewing.

 

[Rivi]

Less coffee 🙂 For real though. If you're a java-junkie watch that stuff. I was a jittery mess for my first few interviews.

This is a good point that I didn't think about. It is hard to find the balance between"too much caffeine and risking being jittery, and not enough caffeine and being sluggish.

 

[erg923]

For example, I applied to a handful of VAs because I wanted to work more with military folk, but I have no VA experience and a small number of publications. Needless to say, I wasn't invited for any of those interviews and looking back, probably shouldn't have applied to them in the first place.

Just to clarify, this has nothing to do with being a fit at your average VA internship. If you had no experience providing evidence-based treatments, no experience with adults, or little experience or interest in assessment, THAT would certainly be a deal breaker.

While having VA experience can enhance the attractability of an applicant, not having it is never a deal breaker for internship. Similarly, while a having "a handful of pubs" could be a deal breaker for research intensive places like PAVA, MUSC/Charleston VA, etc., its just fine for all the others. A handful of publications (i.e., more than one) is still better than the modal intern applicant, remember.

 

[HomeworkHelper]

Just to clarify, this has nothing to do with being a fit at your average VA internship. If you had no experience providing evidence-based treatments, no experience with adults, or little experience or interest in assessment, THAT would certainly be a deal breaker.

While having VA experience can enhance the attractability of an applicant, not having it is never a deal breaker for internship. Similarly, while a having "a handful of pubs" could be a deal breaker for research intensive places like PAVA, MUSC/Charleston VA, etc., its just fine for all the others. A handful of publications (i.e., more than one) is still better than the modal intern applicant, remember.

I agree with Erg. I don't think not having VA experience is necessarily a deal-breaker. In my case, I think it helped me out. I didn't have VA experience, but said in my cover letters I was very interested in the experience. I applied to a mix of places, but ONLY got interviews at VAs. I did have a solid basis in empirically based treatments though, which I think was important.

 

[docma]

I remember this time last year, I was definitely preparing for the match process (again, since I didn't match my first time). Essays can be tricky, I feel like some places may take more time to read them and others may skim through them. I agree with the above posters about putting more emphasis on essay #1, its the first one that I think is typically read before the others and one you can personalize so places can get a good feel for who you are. How personal and divulging you would like to be is up to you.

Other than essays, I would say to focus on fit. How do your goals, desires, ambitions, training, and experiences fit with the place(s) you are applying to? I would also be careful of applying to places or with populations you are interested in that you have little/no prior experience with, unless you think you can convince them on paper why you are a good fit. For example, I applied to a handful of VAs because I wanted to work more with military folk, but I have no VA experience and a small number of publications. Needless to say, I wasn't invited for any of those interviews and looking back, probably shouldn't have applied to them in the first place.

From a site-side perspective, I would say conveying fit is key and you want this to be reflected in your essays not just a cover letter variable. That is, you need to articulate a sense of your self at this stage in your professional development and that needs to be a fit. For us the c.v and the essays are the first focus, then we may sort by cover letter clarity and hours with site-specific population.

Just as a heads up re letters, in the coming year APPIC plans to be encouraging sites to consider use of a standardized reference form (as Canada has done for years) rather than traditional letters, which can tend to suggest that all students are in the top 5%, etc.. TDs may prefer or require this form because it is competency-based in its design and asks explicitly where the student has room to grow. Here is a link to what the Canadian system requires. http://ccppp.ca/index.php/en/reference-letter-guidelines

APPIC will presumably draft a comparable form and make it available well in advance of releasing the next AAPI.

 

[cara susanna]

I wish I'd known that how well you feel you do on interviews doesn't necessarily coincide with where you end up.

 

[researchgirl]

I matched, the first time around, so I guess I wouldn't change too much, but from talking with others who matched/didn't match, I think my overall advice is to be flexible in where you apply geographically. Find 15 (or whatever number you settle on, but I'd say 15) sites that are a stellar match to your goals, interests, background, etc. If you are lucky enough for find 15 stellar fits in places you are excited to live in, that's great, but if not, prioritize fit over geography.