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Apping for MSTP in August/September
- Thread starter cge0
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It will totally depend on the person, but I feel like for me about 12-14 weeks is the right amount of time to give yourself to prepare for the MCAT.
Most self-guided courses as well as actual courses are 10 weeks but typically do not account for the two weeks or so at the end you will probably want to spend doing practice questions.
So, if you started now, it wouldn't be unreasonable to shoot for a may/june test date which puts you on track to get back scores by julyish (I'm being conservative here). My sense is that most MD-PhD programs (unlike MD-only) typically don't even begin reviewing applications till August (and sometimes later), so getting you application submitted in June won't put one at a huge advantage. You just don't want to still be submitting secondaries in October....
If you know that the MCAT is going to be a weak point for you, TAKE A COURSE. Most people will tell you it is worth every penny.
The only downside to beginning this late is that you likely won't have time to retake the exam if you need to which is why taking the class might be an even better plan for you (better safe than sorry).
You're GPA is obviously awesome, it sounds like you have good research experience and you will hopefully have great letters of recommendation that speak to your goals. All thats really left in the equation are your MCAT, personal statements, and interviews. All that is really in your control now is your MCAT and it is (debatably) worth as much as your GPA.
As for the application/interview process. It will be a huge time suck. I did it during my senior year and many people do too. You're life isn't going to be exceptionally awesome, but it is definitely possible. Just try and get as much knocked out during the summer as possible. You're probably going to miss a lot of classes for interviews but professors will likely be understanding.
Advice for personal statements and interviews(sorry I'm making this brief): focus on why you want/need both degrees. This is one of the most important points to deciding whrether you are admitted or not.
In any case, you need to decide ASAP what you are planning to do. If you're going to apply this year, get on the ball now. Assuming your MCAT goes well you will likely have plenty of options available to you.
Most self-guided courses as well as actual courses are 10 weeks but typically do not account for the two weeks or so at the end you will probably want to spend doing practice questions.
So, if you started now, it wouldn't be unreasonable to shoot for a may/june test date which puts you on track to get back scores by julyish (I'm being conservative here). My sense is that most MD-PhD programs (unlike MD-only) typically don't even begin reviewing applications till August (and sometimes later), so getting you application submitted in June won't put one at a huge advantage. You just don't want to still be submitting secondaries in October....
If you know that the MCAT is going to be a weak point for you, TAKE A COURSE. Most people will tell you it is worth every penny.
The only downside to beginning this late is that you likely won't have time to retake the exam if you need to which is why taking the class might be an even better plan for you (better safe than sorry).
You're GPA is obviously awesome, it sounds like you have good research experience and you will hopefully have great letters of recommendation that speak to your goals. All thats really left in the equation are your MCAT, personal statements, and interviews. All that is really in your control now is your MCAT and it is (debatably) worth as much as your GPA.
As for the application/interview process. It will be a huge time suck. I did it during my senior year and many people do too. You're life isn't going to be exceptionally awesome, but it is definitely possible. Just try and get as much knocked out during the summer as possible. You're probably going to miss a lot of classes for interviews but professors will likely be understanding.
Advice for personal statements and interviews(sorry I'm making this brief): focus on why you want/need both degrees. This is one of the most important points to deciding whrether you are admitted or not.
In any case, you need to decide ASAP what you are planning to do. If you're going to apply this year, get on the ball now. Assuming your MCAT goes well you will likely have plenty of options available to you.
First, don't worry about the writing. No one cares about it as long as you don't bomb it.
Its tough to say specifically for you, but for most people your plan would not be a good idea.
Considering you won't have physics II till this summer, you may want to consider taking a year off and keeping up with research this summer and next year. I know it is tempting to be really ambitious here and do it all, but your MCAT results and the quality of your essays is no joke and not something to cram no matter how great of a student you are. Really, I'm assuming you have worked very hard for the GPA you have and don't you dare risk throwing all that hard work away by bombing the MCAT and/or writing mediocre essays. You want to go through the application process ONCE, so do it right.
- taking research off during this summer is not ideal. The question WILL come up in interviews "Why did you quit research?" and the explanation of "I needed the time to do applications" may not fly with everyone. Some would understand that you came in on the application process late in the game and this is totally reasonable, but there are probably people who will look down on you for ditching research and see you as having time-management issues. They're wrong, but some will see your priorities as being twisted because they're so disconected from what the actual application process is like for us. Just something to think about.
- As I said, doing interviews during school is not easy. If you could be doing interviews while working in a lab during your year off, your schedule would likely be much more flexible. Further, you'll have more time to enjoy your senior year. Also, I may be wrong but it sounds like you may be rushing into this. Taking that time off will give you a chance to make sure this is the right decision for you and help you narrow your focus on what research you want to do for your PhD- this is time well spent. My point is that there are a lot of possitives to taking a year off and no one is going to frown upon it assuming you use the time to do something productive.
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I did my interviews during school. Although I pulled off with good grades, it wasn't an easy process. I was forced to drop a course because it literally was in conflict with all of my interviews and the professor wasn't lenient. One thing I regret doing was having a heavy load on Tuesdays and Thursdays, because about 50% of my interviews were on Wednesdays so I had to miss 2 classes in a row. If you must do this, I would recommend to choose your schedule wisely so that it's not Tuesdays and Thursdays heavy.
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Personally, I would recommend taking time off. I took two years off after I graduated, but I think one is more than sufficient. There are a lot of benefits to taking the time off: you'll have time to study for your MCAT, improve your "pre-med" ECs, take Physics II, and most importantly: do more research. Research (and your stats) are going to be the key to getting into an MD/PhD program. You will probably get more interviews and more choices at the end of the process by taking this time off. Plus, you're about to commit yourself to an 8 year program, why not take a year off school?
That being said, even if you don't take a year off, your GPA and research as is set you up well for MD/PhD applications. But your MCAT will make or break your application.
Also--you've made this sudden jump from pre-PhD to pre-MD/PhD. You're going to have to discuss why medicine vs a PhD alone. Can you do this? I know that for me, I couldn't have articulated this very well during university. I didn't have the clinical experiences necessary to convince anyone that I wanted to be a doctor, or that I understood what it entailed. Another big reason I chose to take time off. However, that was much more personal, and with your clinical experience you may very well be able to answer this question already
That being said, even if you don't take a year off, your GPA and research as is set you up well for MD/PhD applications. But your MCAT will make or break your application.
Also--you've made this sudden jump from pre-PhD to pre-MD/PhD. You're going to have to discuss why medicine vs a PhD alone. Can you do this? I know that for me, I couldn't have articulated this very well during university. I didn't have the clinical experiences necessary to convince anyone that I wanted to be a doctor, or that I understood what it entailed. Another big reason I chose to take time off. However, that was much more personal, and with your clinical experience you may very well be able to answer this question already
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Sorry, I misread that then! Anyways, if you do decide to take time off you could consider a paid research assistant position, such as the NIH IRTA program--which is meant for people applying to PhD, MD, or MD/PhD programs. Good luck!
like you i am also interested in systems/comp. neuro. i would imagine that you would have taken quite a few math and physics classes for your preparation, especially since you said that you see things from an engineering perspective and did biomedical eng. research before. i imagine that the physics portion of your mcat would not be a problem, even if you've yet to take phys II.
don't fret too much about the mcat - the preparation time for people are incredibly variable. i took 3 weeks total to prepare, others took a month, etc... but generally speaking, don't take over a month on a trivial thing like the mcat, there are better things to do with your time.
i wouldnt recommend you to take a year or two off if your motive is to get into an md/phd program. do it if you want to do something else (pump out a paper, travel, etc).
as for volunteering, it's pretty much a check-box. i didn't have any volunteering when i was at your time and i think the most you need is about a month in a hospital.
so basically, what im trying to say is: just do it. i think with your stats and with what you've done so far you'll be great. i had similar thoughts as you when i was applying: not enough "volunteering experience", don't know if i should apply this year, etc. there'll be guidance counsellors and others telling you that you'll want to take a year off and stuff, but if you just suck it up and do it, it'll be easier than you think.
organize some time in the summer for volunteering, and devote the rest to research and writing applications. good luck!
edit: supplementing evo's response, it will be pretty grueling if you get more than 4-5 interviews in your fall semester. some professors are lenient, some aren't. last term when i was gone for interviews the prof started deriving relativistic E&M in class and then when i was back i had a midterm on that stuff. if you get enough interviews i suggest you make peace with the fact that you won't do as great as you possibly can in school
don't fret too much about the mcat - the preparation time for people are incredibly variable. i took 3 weeks total to prepare, others took a month, etc... but generally speaking, don't take over a month on a trivial thing like the mcat, there are better things to do with your time.
i wouldnt recommend you to take a year or two off if your motive is to get into an md/phd program. do it if you want to do something else (pump out a paper, travel, etc).
as for volunteering, it's pretty much a check-box. i didn't have any volunteering when i was at your time and i think the most you need is about a month in a hospital.
so basically, what im trying to say is: just do it. i think with your stats and with what you've done so far you'll be great. i had similar thoughts as you when i was applying: not enough "volunteering experience", don't know if i should apply this year, etc. there'll be guidance counsellors and others telling you that you'll want to take a year off and stuff, but if you just suck it up and do it, it'll be easier than you think.
organize some time in the summer for volunteering, and devote the rest to research and writing applications. good luck!
edit: supplementing evo's response, it will be pretty grueling if you get more than 4-5 interviews in your fall semester. some professors are lenient, some aren't. last term when i was gone for interviews the prof started deriving relativistic E&M in class and then when i was back i had a midterm on that stuff. if you get enough interviews i suggest you make peace with the fact that you won't do as great as you possibly can in school
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That's not massive--that's normal. Applying is not that hard. Once you take the MCAT, start working on essays. Interviewing is the tricky part. Try to take easy, flexible classes in your senior year. You can assume your GPA, MCAT, and number of interviews will get you in and let your GPA sink a little. Of course don't get any Ds/Fs, but programs don't really care about that year semester as long as you get accepted. A few Bs aren't going to significantly hurt your near 4.0 GPA anyway.
You're fine. Need an MCAT score.
Sure, that's fine.
Worry about it when you get there. Read old threads on SDN. Those aren't the hard parts of this process.
State residency is not a factor in MSTP admissions. Many people choose to stay in their home states, so they tend to be a bit overrepresented in their local MD/PhD programs. But your undergrad institution isn't really an issue here. Apply as locally or as broadly as you like, but I do think 10-20 programs is a good number.
A lot of other advice got thrown around in this thread. Here are my takes on them.
-- If you need to lay off the research this summer because of physics II + MCAT, it isn't a big deal. It's unlikely anyone will notice or care.
-- I don't see why you need to take a year off. You can take Physics II this summer and prep for the MCAT. My general advice for MCAT prep time is as follows:
~1 month full-time studying
OR
~3 months part-time studying (~3 hours per day)
I always recommend a prep course for safety purposes.
-- You could take the MCAT as late as August if you wanted to. September would be possible but late enough that it could hurt you. Yes, early applications are good, but that is not a make or break factor here. MCAT score is the make or break factor. Thus, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES rush into the MCAT if you are not well enough prepared (i.e. scoring 35+ on practice exams). That's when we look at going into year out territory.
-- You're going to start volunteering/shadowing now. Good. My general guideline is to get at least 50 hours. This really isn't all that hard to do.
I don't at all see why you need to take a year off. You obviously seem opposed to the idea, and what you're proposing is perfectly feasible.
My personal experience: Physics II isn't necessary before the MCAT, if you can learn it quickly on your own. Also, I'd suggest taking time off (early applications are better) and not trying to interview during school. I did that (applied to 18 schools), thinking that I'd have four or five interviews over the two semesters. I ended up with over twelve and missed most of my first semester--did okay academically, but it was hell (had to deal with a professor who resented me missing school and having an A in his class--had to involve the dean of my school to keep him from flunking me for missing classes)... That would also give you more time to shadow/volunteer before applying (not necessary to do a lot, but it might look better to programs having more before applying). It also would give you time if you need to work on improving your MCAT score (and not waste money if you do poorly on it)... Those are just my two cents
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OP. What Neuronix said ^^
Taking a year or two off isn't the end of the world, but then, you're situated well enough to get in during this next upcoming cycle given the rest of your prep goes well. The MCAT prep suggestion of 3 months part-time, 1 month full-time is SPOT on. I completely agree.
As for not having Physics II, it totally depends on what kind of experience you've had. I took AP Physics in HS and so if I needed to take the MCAT before having Physics II the MCAT study books give you enough material and instruction that a good student like yourself could teach yourself on your own...however, if you've never seen E&M before...I might be more nervous.
For MSTP, with your stats, shoot for a >35. A score of 33-35 should be just fine, but higher is always better. Even if you don't take the class (not necessary imho, but i'm not everyone), purchase a few practice tests on-line and make yourself go through the WHOLE testing environment (including writing). It helped me.
I'd suggest you read up on the AMCAS process. You can start writing essays right now if you'd like (at least your 'significant research experience' and 'MD/PhD Essay') and I'd suggest submitting your primary without your MCAT score early June. You'll get your primary verified sooner and get some of your secondaries sooner so that you can work on those before Senior year starts.
Finally, I'd suggest you just focus on applying to medical school and taking Physics II and maybe do research on the side. Studying for your MCAT, taking your MCAT, and applying to medical school should be the summer's priority numero uno...if you have time to do research still and its conducive to your schedule...go for it. Unless you're about ready to write a publication, I'd think taking a bit of time off the research to focus on applying shouldn't be a problem whatsoever.
Taking a year or two off isn't the end of the world, but then, you're situated well enough to get in during this next upcoming cycle given the rest of your prep goes well. The MCAT prep suggestion of 3 months part-time, 1 month full-time is SPOT on. I completely agree.
As for not having Physics II, it totally depends on what kind of experience you've had. I took AP Physics in HS and so if I needed to take the MCAT before having Physics II the MCAT study books give you enough material and instruction that a good student like yourself could teach yourself on your own...however, if you've never seen E&M before...I might be more nervous.
For MSTP, with your stats, shoot for a >35. A score of 33-35 should be just fine, but higher is always better. Even if you don't take the class (not necessary imho, but i'm not everyone), purchase a few practice tests on-line and make yourself go through the WHOLE testing environment (including writing). It helped me.
I'd suggest you read up on the AMCAS process. You can start writing essays right now if you'd like (at least your 'significant research experience' and 'MD/PhD Essay') and I'd suggest submitting your primary without your MCAT score early June. You'll get your primary verified sooner and get some of your secondaries sooner so that you can work on those before Senior year starts.
Finally, I'd suggest you just focus on applying to medical school and taking Physics II and maybe do research on the side. Studying for your MCAT, taking your MCAT, and applying to medical school should be the summer's priority numero uno...if you have time to do research still and its conducive to your schedule...go for it. Unless you're about ready to write a publication, I'd think taking a bit of time off the research to focus on applying shouldn't be a problem whatsoever.
