Application of Organic chemistry in vet school?

[cdo96]

Hey y'all,

So I'm in ochem. And I hate it. And I know that vet schools require it. So I guess I'm just wondering if you use ochem in actual vet school? If not, why do we have to take it?


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[pwny__express]

Not many people enjoy ochem. I think the reality is, most of the undergrad coursework we have to take (I'm finishing it all up myself) will not apply to veterinary school, at least in any direct way. I try to conceptualize it as much as possible to make it relevant to my interests (veterinary med).

Organic chemistry, to me, is important because it illustrates the ways that organic compounds i.e. drugs, hormones, etc can interact with and affect a change on something. It is an important concept to understand for pharmacology. While it isn't necessary to understand that the aromatic ring with para substituted nitrogenous residues is the critical chemical component of [insert drug here], the background that you understand how or why a particular mechanism is possible, is important.

edit: I also actually enjoyed NMR spectra from ochem. I made it a fun "diagnosing" game. Honestly, taking a mess of data and lines and making sense of it isn't too different from interpreting a series of labwork values, at least in the mental processes that you have to develop.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Ochem teaches you how to think in a logical, stepwise scientific fashion about how to get from point A to point F. You may not use the actual chemistry in vet school, but the critical thinking and rigor is absolutely helpful.

 

[twelvetigers]

Someone is gonna come in here and try to tie physics or organic chemistry into something from vet school. Someone is gonna do it.

But. Don't believe them. You'll never have to know about substitution, elimination, Addison reactions... no. Just no. You also don't need to know about velocity, capacitance, or lenses.

Just make it through the stupid class, do the best you can, give it the middle finger, and move on.

(Biochem is fair game tho)

 

[twelvetigers]

In case I wasn't clear, fffuuuuuuuuuu organic chem. I would just as soon take large animal anatomy over again as ochem. For reals.

 

[dyachei]

Why does it matter?

Seriously. Is it going to change the fact that you have to take it? Is it going to somehow make it less tedious? No. Sometimes you have to do things you really don't like.

 

[cdo96]

Why does it matter?

Seriously. Is it going to change the fact that you have to take it? Is it going to somehow make it less tedious? No. Sometimes you have to do things you really don't like.

Statistically, if you like a class or see the purpose in it, you'll do better in it.

Also, I'm just trying to make sure that vet school isn't like ochem because it's not too late to change my mind and do a different post grad school hahaha


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[Posey]

OMG Organic is the best! Why, why, why all the hate? It's a big riddle, and if you learn the patterns, you can solve the riddle.
Seriously though, it helps with Biochem. Most vet schools require at least one semester of Biochem. Can't speak to whether it helps in vet school.


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[twelvetigers]

Statistically, if you like a class or see the purpose in it, you'll do better in it.

Also, I'm just trying to make sure that vet school isn't like ochem because it's not too late to change my mind and do a different post grad school hahaha

It's a hurdle, just like the GRE or any other class you have to take. You don't have to love it, but you do have to take it and pass it. If you choose to do something other than vet med, don't let organic be the reason. There are plenty of other perfectly good reasons out there.

 

[dyachei]

Statistically, if you like a class or see the purpose in it, you'll do better in it.

Also, I'm just trying to make sure that vet school isn't like ochem because it's not too late to change my mind and do a different post grad school hahaha


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Even if you think you may use 1 iota of it in vet school, it's not going to suddenly make you see the purpose in it.

Vet school isn't like organic chem.

But @WhtsThFrequency is right. It teaches an important thought process and may help you understand pharmacology better

 

[cdo96]

Even if you think you may use 1 iota of it in vet school, it's not going to suddenly make you see the purpose in it.

Vet school isn't like organic chem.

But @WhtsThFrequency is right. It teaches an important thought process and may help you understand pharmacology better

Maybe not see the purpose so much as understand *WHY* I have to go through that hell. Maybe I'm such a goal orientated person that I think "I study anatomy to help me with physiology which helps me with surgery". Personally, when I don't see the end goal, it's hard for me to be excited about it.


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[pp9]

OMG Organic is the best! Why, why, why all the hate? It's a big riddle, and if you learn the patterns, you can solve the riddle.
Seriously though, it helps with Biochem. Most vet schools require at least one semester of Biochem. Can't speak to whether it helps in vet school.


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🙄

 

[dyachei]

Maybe not see the purpose so much as understand *WHY* I have to go through that hell. Maybe I'm such a goal orientated person that I think "I study anatomy to help me with physiology which helps me with surgery". Personally, when I don't see the end goal, it's hard for me to be excited about it.


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The only thing that really comes close is pharmacology. And even that, not so much (at least in my experience).

But if your goal is vet school (or med school), then that "goal" should be enough.

 

[Coquette22]

OMG Organic is the best! Why, why, why all the hate? It's a big riddle, and if you learn the patterns, you can solve the riddle.

Cause some us had a really hard time learning the patterns. My brain just was not wired for it, though I do consider myself a pretty good riddle solver in other areas. I loved biochemistry (and found it way more applicable than o-chem once I actually got to vet school), but I was lucky to escape o-chem with a C; the only part I liked or was any good at was the brief section on NMR.

 

[pp9]

Maybe not see the purpose so much as understand *WHY* I have to go through that hell. Maybe I'm such a goal orientated person that I think "I study anatomy to help me with physiology which helps me with surgery". Personally, when I don't see the end goal, it's hard for me to be excited about it.


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A few pre-vet pre-reqs really are sometimes just to make you go through rigorous science classes. A handful of concepts from physics and chemistry may make an appearance through vet school, but you're never going to need to draw out a reaction again. Just get the class done and do as well as you can. It's not a cake walk, this is hard stuff. There's a reason these classes are 'weeder' courses.

 

[Posey]

Cause some us had a really hard time learning the patterns. My brain just was not wired for it, though I do consider myself a pretty good riddle solver in other areas. I loved biochemistry (and found it way more applicable than o-chem once I actually got to vet school), but I was lucky to escape o-chem with a C; the only part I liked or was any good at was the brief section on NMR.

I found it useful with some of the reactions in Biochem. And when we talked about enzymatic mechanisms, it helped me visualize how the amino acids aligned to receptors. That's not ochem, but thinking about how things "look" when they react applies to both classes.
But, yeah, I get why it's generally not a favorite subject.


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[pp9]

I found it useful with some of the reactions in Biochem. And when we talked about enzymatic mechanisms, it helped me visualize how the amino acids aligned to receptors. That's not ochem, but thinking about how things "look" when they react applies to both classes.
But, yeah, I get why it's generally not a favorite subject.


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That's nice that you liked it, but no reason to be 'that person' who makes a big deal about loving a subject that you just revealed you may be struggling in. 🙂

 

[rockatiel]

OMG Organic is the best! Why, why, why all the hate? It's a big riddle, and if you learn the patterns, you can solve the riddle.
Seriously though, it helps with Biochem. Most vet schools require at least one semester of Biochem. Can't speak to whether it helps in vet school.


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Inb4 people telling you you're crazy. I really enjoyed organic as well. 🙂

Now if someone can tell me the relevance of physics, that'd be nice. Because physics is utter hell to me 🙄

 

[rockatiel]

You really do have to be a certain type of brain to enjoy the subject though. It rewires your brain once you do understand it too. The first few weeks I was pretty lost!

 

[dyachei]

Inb4 people telling you you're crazy. I really enjoyed organic as well. 🙂

Now if someone can tell me the relevance of physics, that'd be nice. Because physics is utter hell to me 🙄

basically all of cardiology = physics. You don't necessarily need to know the fine detail, but radiology, cardiology, some other types of physiology are all physics based.

 

[pp9]

basically all of cardiology = physics. You don't necessarily need to know the fine detail, but radiology, cardiology, some other types of physiology are all physics based.

Too soon, too soon. And I guess we do it all again in our 3rd year.

 

[Posey]

That's nice that you liked it, but no reason to be 'that person' who makes a big deal about loving a subject that you just revealed you may be struggling in. 🙂

Oh, I was being silly in the post where I said it was the best. Apologies if that didn't translate.

But since the op was asking if it's even useful, I was trying to give examples of how it helped me with another difficult class.


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[rockatiel]

basically all of cardiology = physics. You don't necessarily need to know the fine detail, but radiology, cardiology, some other types of physiology are all physics based.

Ick. I do just fine with physics in general, but it takes a moment to click for me, like ochem takes a moment to click for some. Second semester is definitely less straightforward than last semester was!

 

[dyachei]

If you understand fluid dynamics, cardio becomes a lot easier.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Statistically, if you like a class or see the purpose in it, you'll do better in it.

Also, I'm just trying to make sure that vet school isn't like ochem because it's not too late to change my mind and do a different post grad school hahaha


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I suggest you find a different grad program then...


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[alohacat319]

Inb4 people telling you you're crazy. I really enjoyed organic as well. 🙂

Now if someone can tell me the relevance of physics, that'd be nice. Because physics is utter hell to me 🙄

We are polar opposites here. Physics has been a breeze for me, but Ochem was pure torture. I have never felt so dumb in my life as I did in Ochem 1. 😛

 

[cdo96]

I suggest you find a different grad program then...


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Why do you say that?


And by saying I hope vet school isn't like ochem, I'm not saying because it's hard and I don't like hard things- it's because for me, ochem is concepts instead of things I can see. I loved anatomy because I would learn about an organ, and then I got to see the organ, so it put book work and hands on stuff together. I like challenges, and I love taking hard classes, it's just "imaginary ideas" are hard for me to grasp.)


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[pp9]

Why do you say that?


And by saying I hope vet school isn't like ochem, I'm not saying because it's hard and I don't like hard things- it's because for me, ochem is concepts instead of things I can see. I loved anatomy because I would learn about an organ, and then I got to see the organ, so it put book work and hands on stuff together. I like challenges, and I love taking hard classes, it's just "imaginary ideas" are hard for me to grasp.)


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You can't always 'see' physiology, neurobiology, and so on. Heck, sometimes you can't even see radiology 😉 Sometimes making a non-tangible concept easier to understand is by building it. I used to use fruit snacks and toothpicks in orgo.


That being said, I still didn't do that well (and I ate a lot of fruit snacks that year😀) so don't feel bad about struggling with this class. You're not alone.

 

[cdo96]

You can't always 'see' physiology, neurobiology, and so on. Heck, sometimes you can't even see radiology 😉 Sometimes making a non-tangible concept easier to understand is by building it. I used to use fruit snacks and toothpicks in orgo.


That being said, I still didn't do that well (and I ate a lot of fruit snacks that year😀) so don't feel bad about struggling with this class. You're not alone.

I did terribly in ochem 1- (got a C), but I bunkered down and I got a tutor who has worked like 7 hours a week with me for the past like month and a half, and I'm going to get a low A or high B, which is a huge improvement for me. And yeah, fruit snacks and toothpicks really help! I also use mini marshmallows (and then put them in my hot coco)

 

[Minnerbelle]

Why do you say that?


And by saying I hope vet school isn't like ochem, I'm not saying because it's hard and I don't like hard things- it's because for me, ochem is concepts instead of things I can see. I loved anatomy because I would learn about an organ, and then I got to see the organ, so it put book work and hands on stuff together. I like challenges, and I love taking hard classes, it's just "imaginary ideas" are hard for me to grasp.)


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Vet school isn't "hard." It's just a lot of stuff that you memorize for the hell of it much of the time. There are plenty of imaginary ideas, even in anatomy. It's really not as romantic as you make it sound. It really is jumping through a ton of hoops that you don't want to/don't see the point in, a lot like needing to get through ochem or physics. You don't have time to question these things, you just have to do it.


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[jmo1012]

ochem taught me how to draw decent looking hexagons. so that i could doodle them in my vet school notes when i was bored

 

[pp9]

I did terribly in ochem 1- (got a C), but I bunkered down and I got a tutor who has worked like 7 hours a week with me for the past like month and a half, and I'm going to get a low A or high B, which is a huge improvement for me. And yeah, fruit snacks and toothpicks really help! I also use mini marshmallows (and then put them in my hot coco)

A C isn't a bad grade for such a difficult class if you ask me. If it makes you feel better, I got a C in gen chem 1, orgo 1, biochem, and genetics. I'm in vet school now.

Vet school isn't "hard." It's just a lot of stuff that you memorize for the hell of it much of the time. There are plenty of imaginary ideas, even in anatomy. It's really not as romantic as you make it sound. It really is jumping through a ton of hoops that you don't want to/don't see the point in, a lot like needing to get through ochem or physics. You don't have time to question these things, you just have to do it.


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"Pull out your imaginoscope...."

 

[cdo96]

ochem taught me how to draw decent looking hexagons. so that i could doodle them in my vet school notes when i was bored

I laughed so hard at this. YES! OChem is hexagon drawing class. I even bought a stencil for at home hexagons/ other shapes.

 

[Devastating]

Based on what I've seen vet students here say about prereqs, it seems like Ochem itself doesn't "show up" much if at all--but biochem of course does, and most schools that I know of require Ochem as a prereq for biochem, so in THAT way it's a necessity...personally I only remembered maybe a few VERY minor little concepts from organic that aided in biochem. Structures, mostly 😛

I wouldn't say I enjoy Ochem much (or most any chem), but I still do find it and biochem way more interesting than general/inorganic...because it seems more directly applicable to life sciences, I guess, and I can more easily see where those concepts would show up in a medicine context. It definitely isn't my strong suit and with the way my class in undergrad was set up, I literally got a D-F on almost every exam, but it still came out to a C in the course because of all our homework and extra credit assignments the prof gave. But I'm currently taking organic lab with a good TA, so everything's nice 🙂

But physics...yeah, it wasn't the hardest thing -ever-, but it just feels like a math class--some challenging, but boring junk you're forced to suck up and slog through I am dreading having to take the second half.

 

[missdarjeeling]

In a lot of (most? all?) disciplines, the basics include details that you won't really need to recall when you do higher level work, but learning it is often vital to your ability to even begin to properly understand the stuff that comes later. Bio, chem, and physics are all connected, and when you're up to your ears in Bernoulli's principle and Sandmeyer reactions and all that nonsense, you lose sight of that. Ochem II was like pulling teeth for me, and physics was super tedious, but a lot of the concepts have come up in unexpected places. And ochem definitely set the stage for biochem, which is pretty important.

Plus, you never know when some random thing might come up. I remember a tech using a silver nitrate stick with a little bit of saline and noticing that something weird was in the saline after she had dipped it in there. Since I was taking gen chem with lab at the time, it hit me that it was the silver precipitating as AgCl. Completely useless bit of information, but zomg, real world application!

 

[LetItSnow]

All I remember about o-chem is making juvenile backside attack jokes.

 

[heyyimhayley]

Ugh. I'm still to this day convinced that I guessed my way through both organic I and II even though I managed to get Bs in the class. I think my issue was that I tried to memorize everything, but it didn't work. For example, I'd see two compounds, and I'd KNOW (because I memorized it) that you'd get an aldehyde when they reacted... But then I'd hit a wall because the multiple choice answers were ALL aldehydes. This happened on almost every reaction based question. I liked nomenclature and NMR, but everything else was foreign, and still is.

I'm not in veterinary school yet, but based on what I've heard, it's mostly memorizing, and the volume of information and workload is what makes it tough. Based on my usual learning and study habits, I think I'll be okay with most of it. But I mean... if veterinary school was organic chemistry I don't know that I'll be able to do it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I'm not in veterinary school yet, but based on what I've heard, it's mostly memorizing, and the volume of information and workload is what makes it tough. Based on my usual learning and study habits, I think I'll be okay with most of it. But I mean... if veterinary school was organic chemistry I don't know that I'll be able to do it.

Veterinary school requires a lot of memorization, and people who are good at it will most likely do fine in school. But let's make the distinction. Good memorizer =/= good veterinarian. So don't get too caught up in that. Memorizing to score for tests don't make you a good practitioner. You don't need to be good in organic chem either to be a vet. But you need to be able to think logically to piece together a pretty extensive knowledge base (those in your head and stuff you can look up) to practice good medicine. Good physical exam skills, intuition, and pattern recognition go a long way. And then the rest is acting the character of a likeable veterinarian, and being a good client service provider. You could even be a "good successful vet with a heavy client base" that kind of sucks at medicine 😛


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[heyyimhayley]

Veterinary school requires a lot of memorization, and people who are good at it will most likely do fine in school. But let's make the distinction. Good memorizer =/= good veterinarian. So don't get too caught up in that. Memorizing to score for tests don't make you a good practitioner. You don't need to be good in organic chem either to be a vet. But you need to be able to think logically to piece together a pretty extensive knowledge base (those in your head and stuff you can look up) to practice good medicine. Good physical exam skills, intuition, and pattern recognition go a long way. And then the rest is acting the character of a likeable veterinarian, and being a good client service provider. You could even be a "good successful vet with a heavy client base" that kind of sucks at medicine 😛


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Oh I didn't mean to imply that my memorizing skills would be what would make me a good veterinarian, more that it would make the classroom portion more doable. I know actually being a veterianian is much more than that.

 

[rockatiel]

Ugh. I'm still to this day convinced that I guessed my way through both organic I and II even though I managed to get Bs in the class. I think my issue was that I tried to memorize everything, but it didn't work. For example, I'd see two compounds, and I'd KNOW (because I memorized it) that you'd get an aldehyde when they reacted... But then I'd hit a wall because the multiple choice answers were ALL aldehydes. This happened on almost every reaction based question. I liked nomenclature and NMR, but everything else was foreign, and still is.

I'm not in veterinary school yet, but based on what I've heard, it's mostly memorizing, and the volume of information and workload is what makes it tough. Based on my usual learning and study habits, I think I'll be okay with most of it. But I mean... if veterinary school was organic chemistry I don't know that I'll be able to do it.

I remember quite a few in my class that said they memorized everything in ochem. It's definitely not uncommon. And if your brain just doesn't work with ochem, you can still learn a good bit that way. Honestly, my second semester organic had a lot of memorization. The reactions were over 10 steps long, so it became kind of a rote memory thing. Most of the class said it was easier than semester 1... I said it was harder because I was used to figuring out syntheses backwards to find the product and now there were too many options! Nomenclature was also my favorite, next to synthesis. I really grew to hate NMR though.

 

[dyachei]

Oh I didn't mean to imply that my memorizing skills would be what would make me a good veterinarian, more that it would make the classroom portion more doable. I know actually being a veterianian is much more than that.

Yeah, I mean let's be honest. A lot of being a vet is loving puppies and kittens!! 😉

 

[battie]

Ick. I do just fine with physics in general, but it takes a moment to click for me, like ochem takes a moment to click for some. Second semester is definitely less straightforward than last semester was!

I liked second semester physics better than first semester for sure. I'm definitely more a concepts person. I struggled with both on the math, though, cause calculus was not a cup of tea and I only had calculus based as an option.

 

[LyraGardenia]

A C isn't a bad grade for such a difficult class if you ask me. If it makes you feel better, I got a C in gen chem 1, orgo 1, biochem, and genetics. I'm in vet school now.

I got a C in organic I and a D in organic II. And then an F. And then another D. And then another F. And then finally a B! And I got accepted to vet school! Not that I at all recommend following my example, but seriously, a C isn't terrible at all, especially if it's your only C.

Also the last time I took organic II we had an extra credit opportunity to make a meme relating to organic. This was my contribution:

 

[cdo96]

I got a C in organic I and a D in organic II. And then an F. And then another D. And then another F. And then finally a B! And I got accepted to vet school! Not that I at all recommend following my example, but seriously, a C isn't terrible at all, especially if it's your only C.

Also the last time I took organic II we had an extra credit opportunity to make a meme relating to organic. This was my contribution:
View attachment 201919

That's amazing. I worked really really hard so far in ochem 2, and I'm going to get a B! But yeah the C in ochem 1 was my first C ever in my life, so it's a little disheartening.


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[TerraVet]

ochem taught me how to draw decent looking hexagons. so that i could doodle them in my vet school notes when i was bored

THIS.

Also, backside attack jokes that still make me grin when I read my doodles.

I was lucky and had an amazing o-chem teacher who was able to minimize pure memorization by giving us logical steps to follow for different types of problems, and walking us through practical, biochemical examples of different reactions--be it for making a drug, discovering a compound, or why guinea pigs can synthesize vitamin C and we can't. What I remember most clearly was that the labs struck me as the most "practical" of all the ones I'd done in chemistry, and the subject material directly related (but wasn't necessarily required to understand) the biochemistry I took the next term. I start school in the fall so I'll let you know if I run into a bunch of o-chem...but since a big part of it was memorizing reactions, I don't think it's going to show up super often.

 

[wheelin2vetmed]

Now if someone can tell me the relevance of physics, that'd be nice. Because physics is utter hell to me 🙄

For reelz. "Jenny slides a box across a frictionless surface while her dog tugs the box at a perpendicular orientation."

First of all, Jenny, I don't know what planet you are on with your fancy frictionless surfaces. Secondly, you can take that box and shove it up your ass. 😀

 

[Devastating]

be it for making a drug, discovering a compound, or why guinea pigs can synthesize vitamin C and we can't.

Think you got that switched! 😉

lol Sorry, I just love guinea pigs and nutrition class 😛

 

[rockatiel]

For reelz. "Jenny slides a box across a frictionless surface while her dog tugs the box at a perpendicular orientation."

First of all, Jenny, I don't know what planet you are on with your fancy frictionless surfaces. Secondly, you can take that box and shove it up your ass. 😀

At least your teacher doesn't use monkeys and bananas in every example. Every. Single. One. I'm scared of monkeys now. Not even kidding.

 

[hazelmoo]

At least your teacher doesn't use monkeys and bananas in every example. Every. Single. One. I'm scared of monkeys now. Not even kidding.

My teacher used balls in every example. Ball drops, ball rolls, ball connected to a string.... No creativity whatsoever 😛

 

[Posey]

My teacher used balls in every example. Ball drops, ball rolls, ball connected to a string.... No creativity whatsoever 😛

Mine mumbled and dropped an eraser repeatedly. Didn't matter if he was talking about circular motion, he still dropped the eraser. Thankfully, a friend offered to tutor me, or I couldn't have passed.


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