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Application pool of this year
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thanks said:
It would seem like a good thing for FP wannabe's but in reality, it is not. Getting stuck with a bunch of unfilled slots in a program can be a big drag on the call schedule, and then the other problem is that even less competitive applicants apply, leaving you working with the "creamless crop" at times. That is why I personally am only looking at programs that routinely fill all slots, and more times than not fill them with American grads from good schools. I know that seems a bit shallow, because yes I know that FMG's and small state schools put out great future FP's, but it is a good measure of how good a program is. For instance, there are 3 programs I know of off the top of my head in Cali that have not taken an FMG in ages, if ever. And if you look at their resident profiles, you will see big name schools for whatever reason. Its just a bit disheartening when you are a top student who has worked your ass off to make top grades and scores, and find that a residency you are interested in has 7/10 FMG's, and 2/10 unfilled, in a mid-heartland city where you know that these residents were not looking to move to. Its damn depressing to think that these people might be my upper levels when I am an intern. Its a great thing that our country allows FMG's to fill slots to provide healthcare in areas where even residents are highly valued by the community, but I personally did not come this far to have anything less than the best FP education out there, thus I expect to find a program where I will never have to worry about feeling like I know more than my upper levels.
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I heard that the number of FP applying this year is less than last year from interviewees. They were told by someone in the different programs they were interviewing at. I'm not sure if it's at certain locations or in general across the country. I'm not sure if this is even true.
News flash to PACtoDOC. Many, Many ALLOPATHIC USMG's cosider DO's no better than FMG's. And as you won't go to a FMG heavy program, they won't go to a DO heavy (allopathic) program. So your post is well noted, and I'm sure you will be a great doc, but I would appreciate a bit more tolerance for us FMG's, whom you WILL be working with no matter where you are. If the US allopathic schools actually produced enough docs to fill the jobs available, you and me both would be out of work. Thank god they love their money more than creating a workable health care system. And as long as Interventional Radiologist are making $650,000, FM spots will always remain open for us. Please don;t make this a DO vs. FMG post, that it's not. But short story is, there are open spots in FM because USMG's DON"T TAKE THEM!!!!!! So maybe I can prematch next year and save a bundle on interview costs! sweeet! 😀
Come on now...no fighting...🙂 I'm actually a DO student and have heard of some programs that state they have filled their spots with US grads (MD or DO). When I interview I'm more interested in if they are DO friendly vs. FMG friendly. We all know that some people go to foreign school because they have no shot at a US school (that's why some people go to DO school as well)...some are older, some just couldn't get in and really really want to be a doc. I truely don't give a crap where you go to school as long as you are a good doc.
Actually, the post is more tongue in cheek. PACtoDoc is a great contributor to the forum and I do not mean start a turf war with my brethren. He'll be a great doc I'm sure, but I just want to emphasize that because the person with the attending name tag may have an accent, doesn't mean he/she doesn't have a brain. And belive me, I was an ER Tech at a top 20 allopathic school, before travelling to Europe for medical school, and I know the USMG attitude, so anyway, ...we're all family here. GL to all on match. 🙂
DRealDrZ said:
CristaG,
I think you completely reacted without reading my post with an open mind. I tried my best to be politeabout FMG's and I can count at least 2 places in my post where I went out of my way to show that. Go back and re-read it and see if you now agree. Sometimes I too react too early to things I read. I know this issue is very touchy for some, and for good reason. But truth be told, I would rather apply to a program that routinely accepts only US grads because I know that there is less of a chance that I might end up with someone who barely speaks English as my upper level. Call it selfishness, but residency is MY perogative, and I just don't want to take that chance. And what I was really getting at was that I don't want to go to a place that routinely takes more FMG's than US grads, because it just shows the competitive nature of the program. You my friend are the one trying to make this a DO vs MD thing it seems. Show me a US FP program that discriminates against DO's and I will be very surprised. I have probably done more research on FP programs than any medical student on this forum. And I can tell you without a doubt that the top FP programs in this country all have a strong record of having many DO's in their program year after year. We have allopathic programs that fly in from out of state to recruit at our FMIG meetings, and we routinely have to turn away programs from being able to come recruit at our meetings because we only have one meeting per month. The best FP programs know that a good DO is often better for primary care than a good MD, because a DO knows how to treat with their hands. And I am sure that good FMG's are recruited as well during the interview process. Relax though and stop being so territorial. I simply pointed out the truth on one hand, and my preference for a program on the other hand.
"But truth be told, I would rather apply to a program that routinely accepts only US grads because I know that there is less of a chance that I might end up with someone who barely speaks English as my upper level."
In response to the statement above, I would like to remind you that being a "non-US" grad does not mean one barely speaks English. It is a common misconception in this country that all foreigners do not speak English or speak it badly. In reality, most foreign scholars and professionals in this country speak English exceptionally well. I applaud your desire to obtain admission to the best program you can, but this particular concern of yours regarding non-US grads plays more to stereotype than to fact. You invited us to call your position "selfishness" if we wanted to. I wouldn't call it that; but I do think your position could be better informed.
In response to the statement above, I would like to remind you that being a "non-US" grad does not mean one barely speaks English. It is a common misconception in this country that all foreigners do not speak English or speak it badly. In reality, most foreign scholars and professionals in this country speak English exceptionally well. I applaud your desire to obtain admission to the best program you can, but this particular concern of yours regarding non-US grads plays more to stereotype than to fact. You invited us to call your position "selfishness" if we wanted to. I wouldn't call it that; but I do think your position could be better informed.
PACtoDOC said:
I stated that by applying to top US programs, it simply increases my chances of NOT ending up in a position where one of my upper level residents might be someone who speaks English poorly. THATS WHAT I SAID!! I never said all FMG's speak poor English. Maybe its 5%, or maybe its 2%, but I don't want to end up in a position like this. I want my upper levels to be more intelligent, more experienced, and more articulate than I could ever be. I worked hard to make myself competitive to get into a program where only top students get interviewed, and since this is about the rest of my practice life, I have no apologies for having this goal. I also think you are in denial if you think that all FMG's speak English as well as US grads. I just came off a rotation at a residency program in Psych where over half the residents spoke some middle eastern language, and it was uncomfortable. They were not bad doctors, and they taught me a great deal, but I will not pretend that the language barrier and accent were not difficult to overcome. So I just don't want to be in this situation for 3 straight years. Its not a stereotype..its just the truth.
We got off the subject, ... mostly my fault, sorry. I will be very interested to see how the FM programs fill after this match as it will be a bellwhether for where I will send applications next year. Obviously programs with NO FMG's will be a hard program for me to match. And I too have scrutinized many of the program's residents lists and as a US citizen (born in 'Bama) FMG, I too would prefer to have at least an even distribution of USMG (MD,DO) and FMG. I look forward to PACtoDOC's reviews as this season comes to a close. Sorry for the distraction..I have refilled my alprazolam prescription! 😀
Cristagali said:
I think as a US born FMG, your chances of landing a residency are as good as any DO or MD US trained as long as you have comparative scores. I think it is often the true "foreign" FMG that some programs are fearful of because they worry about how their patients will accept them. Like it or not, there are just some geographic locations where patients refuse to see anyone with an accent or from a different culture. I have a Hispanic name and there were times as a PA that I had people not want to see me because they thought I was ESL. That is hilarious because I am a mix of Irish and Mexican, and look more "Conan Obrien" than "Senor". I had patients who would not see a specialist that I had referred them to because they were foreign, even though they may have done med school at Harvard and residency at Hopkins. Its just some people's inherent nature to choose based on factors like this and that is usually not something you can change.
I am only a 3rd year so I don't match this year, however, I plan to have my short list narrowed down to around 5 programs by interview time I hope. I visit programs a few times per year in conjunction with vacataion and I can usually tell in the first hour if I like the place or not. Some are DO friendly but some are DO tolerant. There is a difference to some degree. I will not go to a DO tolerant program. I will go to a DO friendly program, and if my gut instinct is correct, I already know where that will be. I am basically in the process now of proving where I don't want to go in an effort to reinforce where I think I will probably end up.
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Sounds like we will be in the match together. My school doesn't graduate until September, so I had no shot at this year's Match. But sounds like we'll be going opposite shores. I'm a southern boy, and will stay in the "neighborhood". Good luck to you too. I'm sure you will have plenty of choices. 👍
DRealDrZ said:
I am having an absolutely fantastic time. I enjoy listening to so many of the other students complain about how bad a particular rotaton is and then finding out that the rotation is actually quite good. Most of these little spoiled kids have never worked a day in their lives, so any time they have to deal with people like MA's, admin assistants, doctors, nurses, etc....they don't get to feel as privileged as they have all their lives. I probably shouldn't make so much fun of them because there are honestly a lot of good young students too. Its just that the half that come from "royalty" have a bit of a hard time accomodating when the "kingdom" does not cater to their every need. I personally feel they should not allow someone in medical school who has not proven that they have held a real job in some sort of service profession, or the military. Then maybe we would not have so many arrogant doctors walking the streets. Personally, I detest many physicians and I doubt seriously if my social circle will ever revolve around hanging out with them on the weekends. I'll take my deer-hunting, factory working, blue collar buddies down to the local bar and play poker in the backroom, and I'll be perfectly content. And all my ties will be burned when I finally get done with school next year, and I will never wear one in residency I can swear to you!!
Bit of a tangent, sorry!!
We must be the same person... 
During my 4th year one of the most important questions that I asked the preceptors was about dress code! I'm serious. I also ask the residents during my interviews about dress code (obviously not asking the program director that one). I can promise you that the places that I've visited that require ties...will NOT be ranked!!! 👍
During my 4th year one of the most important questions that I asked the preceptors was about dress code! I'm serious. I also ask the residents during my interviews about dress code (obviously not asking the program director that one). I can promise you that the places that I've visited that require ties...will NOT be ranked!!! 👍
DRealDrZ said:We must be the same person...
Some places require ties!!! That's just wrong, and scary 😱
lol... ur school requires you to either wear a tie or scrubs 😛iatrosB said:
anyways i am totally used to them, this engineering job ive been working at for the past few years made me wear a tie everyday....
iatrosB said:
That's how it is at the programs here. I think it is silly, personally. It really seems to be the biggest deal with the IM program, though.
I don't even wear a tie now and I am on IM. Our course director, an IM doc came in and gave orientation wearing a white coat, but no tie!! I immediately removed mine and will not put it back on unless someone requires it. Its not in the syllabus, so its not likely they can enforce ties. I personally don't care if they give me the lowest passing score in history, because the one thing they can't take away from me is my SHELF score, and that will be good. Its hard to grade someone bad when their SHELF score is in the high 90's. Thus, for future edification of MS1's, and 2's, remember this example. You can get away with more when you can back it up with proven performance. So, in the end, I can at least guarantee that ties will not be in my wardrobe once I leave medical school.
So where are you guys interviewing anyway?
So where are you guys interviewing anyway?
So where are you guys interviewing anyway?[/QUOTE]
All of the AZ and Utah programs. I finished the AZ route and I go to Utah in two weeks. So far they all look like strong programs and I hear great things about Utah too. Speaking of ties, Mayo Scottsdale requires residents to wear a SUIT throughout the 3 years of residency (except for ER, surg and whatever other rotations can't be done in a suit).
All of the AZ and Utah programs. I finished the AZ route and I go to Utah in two weeks. So far they all look like strong programs and I hear great things about Utah too. Speaking of ties, Mayo Scottsdale requires residents to wear a SUIT throughout the 3 years of residency (except for ER, surg and whatever other rotations can't be done in a suit).
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DRealDrZ said:Wasn't there a study that said that ties actually harbor germs...so they are detrimental to healthcare professionals? I'm just practicing evidence-based medicine a little early.................................
Not to be the party pooper in this tie-bashing party, but there was also a study that showed people felt like they got better medical care and felt more comfortable about their doctor when their doctor wore a tie and/or suit, or was at least a little professional looking.....
PACtoDOC said:
PACtoDOC, I really take offense at this statement. You speak of arrogant doctors, but your arrogance really comes through in your post. To think that you are superior to someone else just because of your experience is the antithesis of the spirit of medicine. You should not look down on those who are less experienced than you, you should share the wisdom that you have gained from your experience. Whether you like it or not, medicine is a social field, so you will teach your physician colleagues and you WILL learn from them as well. Many of those "spoiled kids" may be able to teach you something if you open up your mind.
No matter how many qualifying statments you throw into your post, by saying that you "detest many physicians" you show that you are willing to isolate yourself from the cooperative aspect of medicine. Your wish to not have anything to do with other physicians will most certainly come true, but I think your practice and your patients will suffer as a result.
PACtoDOC said:
Do you really think that medical school admission committees are so ignorant as to not be able to pick out the applicants who have a true desire to serve others?
I would normally not respond so personally to a post, and I apologize if I offend. But the arrogance of it compelled me to share my views.
MNTransplant said:
I think you might need to consider taking a Xanax, drinking a Guiness, and smoking some herb on top of that if you still overly threatened by my humorous comments. Have you ever heard of black comedy? Ever see a Ben Stiller flick? And you tie study is hilarious my friend. As a PA, I had people waiting to see me for weeks when they could have easily gone down the hall and seen a physician who had a tie on. My daily wardrobe included a pair of Corduroy pants, a baggy Columbia flannel shirt (winter) and a Guayabera (summer), plus a pair of Clarke's sandals. Sure, when patients have to decide between 3 useless, personality-free FP's, they might prefer the one with the tie!!
But in truth, if you need a tie to win over your patient's confidence, you need to get a life. And personally MTN, I won't be losing any sleep over what you think of me as you sit there and try to psychoanalize me and my underlying "hidden meanings of life". Although I am flattered you would spend so much effort being offended, perhaps you should invest in some destressing like watching a football game, having intercourse, or inhaling some 100% oxygen via non-rebreather mask. This site is not Sunday school my friend, and as always, opinions and sarcasm run deep. Was I sitting across from you all at a bar, I probably would not talk the same way I do on a blank PC screen, which is the underlying essence of the internet. Don't take things too seriously MTN. You should know from my postings prior to this not to!! 😀
But if you really must remain offended from that above post, I can only surmise that you either come from royalty, or have never held a job before. Otherwise I cannot imagine why you would be offended by such a joke. And unless you go to medical school in Mexico, my guess is that your class is half loaded with these young spoiled kids too!!
PACtoDOC said:I think you might need to consider taking a Xanax, drinking a Guiness, and smoking some herb on top of that if you still overly threatened by my humorous comments. Have you ever heard of black comedy? Ever see a Ben Stiller flick? And you tie study is hilarious my friend. As a PA, I had people waiting to see me for weeks when they could have easily gone down the hall and seen a physician who had a tie on. My daily wardrobe included a pair of Corduroy pants, a baggy Columbia flannel shirt (winter) and a Guayabera (summer), plus a pair of Clarke's sandals. Sure, when patients have to decide between 3 useless, personality-free FP's, they might prefer the one with the tie!!
And personally MTN, I won't be losing any sleep over what you think of me as you sit there and try to psychoanalize me and my underlying "hidden meanings of life". Although I am flattered you would spend so much effort being offended, perhaps you should invest in some destressing like watching a football game, having intercourse, or inhaling some 100% oxygen via non-rebreather mask. This site is not Sunday school my friend, and as always, opinions and sarcasm run deep. Was I sitting across from you all at a bar, I probably would not talk the same way I do on a blank PC screen, which is the underlying essence of the internet. Don't take things too seriously MTN. You should know from my postings prior to this not to!! 😀
But if you really must remain offended from that above post, I can only surmise that you either come from royalty, or have never held a job before. Otherwise I cannot imagine why you would be offended by such a joke. And unless you go to medical school in Mexico, my guess is that your class is half loaded with these young spoiled kids too!!
Yeah, you're right. Sometimes i just get a little worked up about the whole professionalism thing. Everybody's practice is going to be different based on where they are what kind of patients they're going to see. Like I said, sorry if i offended.
