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Application timeline

Lulu3355

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May 23, 2015
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    Just wondering if it's too late to submit applications close to the deadline of Oct 15, 2015 for some schools? I spent a lot of time on studying MCAT and doing Canadian applications. Now I don't have much time left for American applications. I do have all my transcripts and references in. Just have to finish writing personal statement. Some schools have deadlines for secondary applications that are very close to primary application deadline. It can take AMCAS several weeks to verify the primary application. Is it still worth applying this cycle at this time?


    Thank you!
     
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    Doug Underhill

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      If a Canadian does not get into Canadian medical schools one year despite applying to zero American schools, are they considered a reapplicant at American schools the following cycle?

      I'm not Canadian, just wondering.
       

      GrapesofRath

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        If a Canadian does not get into Canadian medical schools one year despite applying to zero American schools, are they considered a reapplicant at American schools the following cycle?

        I'm not Canadian, just wondering.

        You won't be a re-applicant at any school you didn't previously apply to.

        What does end up happening though is there are a number of schools which will have secondaries specifically asking if you have applied to medical school in the past which is where you'll have to answer. How much they will weigh the fact you've already struck out once ,even if it wasn't from the US, you probably won't get an answer to. From what ADCOMs on here have said in the past for schools that ask if you are a re-applicant in general even if it's not at their school, that will get noticed. How much no one really can say and is so variable. Whether or not US MD schools will look at a re-applicant who struck out only with Canadian schools the same as an applicant who struck out with US MD schools that weren't there's no great answer to and my uneducated guess is it will vary from school to school and specifically from ADCOM to ADCOM.
         

        NotASerialKiller

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          You won't be a re-applicant at any school you didn't previously apply to.

          What does end up happening though is there are a number of schools which will have secondaries specifically asking if you have applied to medical school in the past which is where you'll have to answer. How much they will weigh the fact you've already struck out once ,even if it wasn't from the US, you probably won't get an answer to. From what ADCOMs on here have said in the past for schools that ask if you are a re-applicant in general even if it's not at their school, that will get noticed. How much no one really can say and is so variable. Whether or not US MD schools will look at a re-applicant who struck out only with Canadian schools the same as an applicant who struck out with US MD schools that weren't there's no great answer to and my uneducated guess is it will vary from school to school and specifically from ADCOM to ADCOM.

          I don't remember being asked if I applied to any medical school, only checking off that I never previously applied through AMCAS. I seriously doubt there's any chance of it being viewed unfavourably that you applied to a med school in another country in a previous year. Re-applicants are viewed unfavourably in the US because of the implication is that you did something wrong, that there was a reason no one wanted you whether it was only applying to top 20s or being socially inept in interviews. This is not the case in Canada, and I doubt adcoms would be oblivious to that.

          Regardless, you can apply as many times as you want in Canada without it seeming unusual, and in the US you have one really good shot. OP do not apply this year, you'll probably want 2 application cycles in Canada anyway. Apply as early as you can next year if you don't get in this year.
           

          Doug Underhill

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            Personally, I think reapplicants have a lower chance of success simply because people who aren't very competitive are concentrated within that pool. If you take a pool of 100 pre-meds and remove the 40 who get accepted, the pool of 60 re-applicants is enriched in applicants with red flags and applicants with poor stats. If you're one of those people who gets passed over but is competitive otherwise, I don't think the reapplicant stigma will hurt you all that much.
             

            GrapesofRath

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              I don't remember being asked if I applied to any medical school, only checking off that I never previously applied through AMCAS. I seriously doubt there's any chance of it being viewed unfavourably that you applied to a med school in another country in a previous year. Re-applicants are viewed unfavourably in the US because of the implication is that you did something wrong, that there was a reason no one wanted you whether it was only applying to top 20s or being socially inept in interviews. This is not the case in Canada, and I doubt adcoms would be oblivious to that.

              Regardless, you can apply as many times as you want in Canada without it seeming unusual, and in the US you have one really good shot. OP do not apply this year, you'll probably want 2 application cycles in Canada anyway. Apply as early as you can next year if you don't get in this year.

              There are definitely secondaries that ask if you have had a previous unsuccessful application cycle. I don't have the list of secondaries in front of me obviously, but there do happen to be some schools that ask this(obviously not all).

              From what gyngyn and others have said in the past, for schools that ask if you are a re-applicant in general and not just to their school, your answer does matter. How much of a factor it is, I don't know and honestly I'm willing to bet it will vary alot from school to school. I have no idea if US schools view people who struck out the first time in Canada vs the US differently, but there are secondaries which you will have to put that down for is the point.

              I don't know how Canadian schools view reapplicants, I wasn't addressing that part of the question.
               

              NotASerialKiller

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                There are definitely secondaries that ask if you have had a previous unsuccessful application cycle. I don't have the list of secondaries in front of me obviously, but there do happen to be some schools that ask this(obviously not all).

                From what gyngyn and others have said in the past, for schools that ask if you are a re-applicant in general and not just to their school, your answer does matter. How much of a factor it is, I don't know and honestly I'm willing to bet it will vary alot from school to school. I have no idea if US schools view people who struck out the first time in Canada vs the US differently, but there are secondaries which you will have to put that down for is the point.

                I don't know how Canadian schools view reapplicants, I wasn't addressing that part of the question.

                Maybe @gyngyn can comment on this directly, but I assumed that everything I read about re-applicants here was referring to US re-applicants, because this is all anyone cares about for the vast, vast majority. With different application systems in different countries it doesn't make much sense that they'd judge "re-applicants" as a whole. What they actually know about, and can make inferences about, is what happens with AMCAS re-applicants.

                I didn't think you were talking about Canadian schools, I was just giving the OP advice about that part.
                 

                GrapesofRath

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                  Maybe @gyngyn can comment on this directly, but I assumed that everything I read about re-applicants here was referring to US re-applicants, because this is all anyone cares about for the vast, vast majority. With different application systems in different countries it doesn't make much sense that they'd judge "re-applicants" as a whole. What they actually know about, and can make inferences about, is what happens with AMCAS re-applicants.

                  I didn't think you were talking about Canadian schools, I was just giving the OP advice about that part.

                  Yeah I mean the question in the secondary at some schools exists for a reason. Every school will have their own interpretation of how to view things like this; after all there's a reason they wanted to know about this kind of info and go out of their way to make an extra question in the secondary to address it. I don't know how being a 1st time applicant in the US but having struck out in Canada is looked at in comparison to someone who strikes out in the US the first time around; it's certainly possible they are looked at differently. But alas, it's really all speculation on our non-ADCOM parts. What we're kind of limited in saying is that the secondary prompt exists for a reason and that schools who ask it want to know about previous application cycles. How much those cycles really affect a judgment of an applicant and how where those cycles affects things, who knows. It might not be that significant. Who knows.
                   

                  gyngyn

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                    Maybe @gyngyn can comment on this directly, but I assumed that everything I read about re-applicants here was referring to US re-applicants, because this is all anyone cares about for the vast, vast majority. With different application systems in different countries it doesn't make much sense that they'd judge "re-applicants" as a whole. What they actually know about, and can make inferences about, is what happens with AMCAS re-applicants.

                    I didn't think you were talking about Canadian schools, I was just giving the OP advice about that part.

                    Yeah I mean the question in the secondary at some schools exists for a reason. Every school will have their own interpretation of how to view things like this; after all there's a reason they wanted to know about this kind of info and go out of their way to make an extra question in the secondary to address it. I don't know how being a 1st time applicant in the US but having struck out in Canada is looked at in comparison to someone who strikes out in the US the first time around; it's certainly possible they are looked at differently. But alas, it's really all speculation on our non-ADCOM parts. What we're kind of limited in saying is that the secondary prompt exists for a reason and that schools who ask it want to know about previous application cycles. How much those cycles really affect a judgment of an applicant and how where those cycles affects things, who knows. It might not be that significant. Who knows.
                    The bigger issue with Canadian re-applicants will be visa status.
                    Being a re-applicant is viewed differently by individuals as well as schools.
                    There are only so many reasons one becomes a re-applicant.
                    For some, it is perceived as evidence of lack of preparation, self assessment and strategy.
                    High stats re-applicants can be presumed to have interviewed worse than expected.
                     
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                    NotASerialKiller

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                      The bigger issue with Canadian re-applicants will be visa status.
                      Being a re-applicant is viewed differently by individuals as well as schools.
                      There are only so many reasons one becomes a re-applicant.
                      For some, it is perceived as evidence of lack of preparation, self assessment and strategy.
                      High stats re-applicants can be presumed to have interviewed worse than expected.

                      Hm, so adcoms really aren't likely to be aware of the difference? It's hard to throw a stone in Ontario without finding a 3.9+ 33+ applicant who didn't get any interviews, that's just how it goes here. I figured adcoms at schools who regularly interview Canadians would know that.
                       

                      GrapesofRath

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                        Hm, so adcoms really aren't likely to be aware of the difference? It's hard to throw a stone in Ontario without finding a 3.9+ 33+ applicant who didn't get any interviews, that's just how it goes here. I figured adcoms at schools who regularly interview Canadians would know that.

                        Well which schools regularly interview Canadian applicants? All but 62 don't even consider them. Many only take one or two every few years. Some might take at most one per year. That leaves what, maybe 15 schools or so that regularly matriculate several per year?

                        My take away from what gyngyn said though was that Visa status is what causes more problems for Canadians who strike out in Canada then decide to try in the US more so than the fact that they struck out and have to be a re-applicant. That said, there is just so much variation from individual ADCOM evaluator; I can kind of see why gyngyn's hands are tied here trying not to make generalizations as there is just so much potential source for variation in how different ADCOM's view these type of things.
                         

                        NotASerialKiller

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                          Well which schools regularly interview Canadian applicants? All but 62 don't even consider them. Many only take one or two every few years. Some might take at most one per year. That leaves what, maybe 15 schools or so that regularly matriculate several per year?

                          That's the point though, THOSE are the schools Canadians apply to, therefore they are the ones that are pertinent to the discussion. When Canadians apply they'll generally target 15 schools that are known to be Canadian friendly. I'm talking about what concerns the OP, not what the majority of adcoms at schools who don't take Canadians think, they don't affect this issue.

                          It's just as possible that adcoms at schools that accept Canadians are aware of how hard it is here and how common it is to not get in your first cycle. Without speaking to them directly, I don't think Canadian applicants should use the 're-applicants are at a disadvantage' rule to inform their decisions is what I'm saying.
                           

                          Lulu3355

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                            Thanks everyone for your quick replies. In Canada, it doesn't matter how many times you apply. Everyone is treated the same. This is my first year applying to med schools. I didn't know reapplicants were looked upon unfavorably in the US. That's good to know. I guess I will just wait till next cycle to apply if I don't get into a Canadian school.
                             

                            NotASerialKiller

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                              Thanks everyone for your quick replies. In Canada, it doesn't matter how many times you apply. Everyone is treated the same. This is my first year applying to med schools. I didn't know reapplicants were looked upon unfavorably in the US. That's good to know. I guess I will just wait till next cycle to apply if I don't get into a Canadian school.

                              That's a good move, but honestly even if being a re-applicant didn't matter it would still be awful to apply this late. It's late for anyone, but as an international you need every advantage you can get, and it's way more expensive applying in the US. You definitely want to be on top of this next year, ordering your transcripts and getting your LORs in as soon as you can.
                               
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