Apply as a Junior

[MillersGirl60]

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(Disclaimer: Past posts about this are 3+ years old)

I have had some friends ask if I am going to apply to vet school as a junior. I was wondering if anyone out there thinks it would be worth it to try, or possibly a good experience to try applying early. I have many of the prereqs for the vet schools I would like to apply to, but am missing a few major ones, which would be o chem and physics. What are ya'lls thoughts on that?





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[jmo1012]

VMRCVM used to (and maybe still does) highly encourage it. their reasoning was that if you didn't get in, you had an entire application cycle under your belt as well as a file review to go on to compare yourself to the applicants from that year's pool.

if you will be eligible for matriculation come the end of the app stuff, then i say go for it. i wouldn't apply broadly, maybe just to your top 1 or 2 schools (particularly your in state). be prepared to spend money to submit the app and potentially interview. even if you are not a particularly strong candidate, a file review could be very useful to you.

i've known several people to apply as competitive applicants after 3 years (granted they were all right in undergrad out of HS) get in that first time around, so it's certainly not impossible! at least one of them did it as a "practice" round, and was accepted.

i think you need to weigh the cost aspect versus what you can potentially gain information-wise from the process.

 

[T_Rose]

I first applied as a 3rd year undergraduate student. I ended up wait-listed, but it was a very tough year for residents of my state. More people applied than usual. On the other hand, I have a few friends who were accepted this year as juniors, and this was to a school that normally discourages people from applying as juniors.

Waiting another year was one of the best things that could have happened to me. So much has changed this past year, and I grew a lot as a person. I feel much more prepared for the program I am about to enter. However, applying last year really helped me out because of the file reviews. The feedback from them helped me get accepted into three schools this year!

I would say go for it if you can afford it! Maybe limit the number of schools to which you apply.

 

[MillersGirl60]

You get feedback from the schools you apply to?




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[jriddle7]

You get feedback from the schools you apply to?




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If you apply to a vet school and are unsuccessful, they allow you to schedule a "file review". This is typically an over the phone process where an admissions person goes through your application and lets you know what was strong about the app / what could use more work / etc. Every school does this I think.

 

[Rainheart]

My IS, VRMCVM also says that if you apply as a Junior and get in, you HAVE to go, you do not have a choice. Not sure if that is the same for other schools.

 

[BlackDog17]

My IS, VRMCVM also says that if you apply as a Junior and get in, you HAVE to go, you do not have a choice. Not sure if that is the same for other schools.

Out of curiosity, would this mean you would go straight to vet school without ever graduating from undergrad? That seems a little weird to me.

 

[Foxhunter]

Out of curiosity, would this mean you would go straight to vet school without ever graduating from undergrad? That seems a little weird to me.

Yes, this is what this means.

I have a friend who is doing it for the next cycle (just 3 schools I think). Then if he doesn't get in, his senior year will be a joke (he'll still have a writing requirement left for his IS, but electives the rest of the way). My roommate got into vet school after 3 years of undergrad, but she graduated in 3 years. If it works for you great, money-wise if you get in it's a good decision, but don't discredit the amount of maturing you'll do in a year. I'm amazed at how much I've grown from 19 to 20 to 21 to 22. Sometimes I look back and am like "how the hell did I survive?"

Also, UG is much less stressful and as I told my friend who is applying early- if you do get in you'll be watching all your undergrad friends having a BLAST their senior year and you'll be hating your life to some extent. Just something to think about.

 

[kernel]

if you do get in you'll be watching all your undergrad friends having a BLAST their senior year and you'll be hating your life to some extent.

If it's any consolation to anyone going that route, my senior year sucked ballz and was certainly not a blast by any means 👎
Everyone's different 🙂

 

[felinelvr44]

Out of curiosity, would this mean you would go straight to vet school without ever graduating from undergrad? That seems a little weird to me.

Most (all?) vet schools do not require a bachelor's degree - rather, at least 90 credits and the completion of all pre-req's. While it's not the normal route for most people, it's definitely not uncommon.

 

[jmo1012]

Out of curiosity, would this mean you would go straight to vet school without ever graduating from undergrad? That seems a little weird to me.

depends on your UG program/degree. At Virginia Tech, if you applied as a junior and were accepted as an Ag major, you wouldn't get a BSc. If you were in the biology dept, you would transfer back 1st year classes for credit to receive your BSc.

 

[felinelvr44]

depends on your UG program/degree. At Virginia Tech, if you applied as a junior and were accepted as an Ag major, you wouldn't get a BSc. If you were in the biology dept, you would transfer back 1st year classes for credit to receive your BSc.

I believe at Minnesota if you enter the DVM program without a bachelor's degree, they'll give you a BS in veterinary medicine after completion of your first year of vet school. Kinda neat. I think it's worth noting as well that once you finish vet school and have that shiny DVM, no one is really going to care about your BA/BS

 

[tangowhiskey]

Out of curiosity, would this mean you would go straight to vet school without ever graduating from undergrad? That seems a little weird to me.

I won't have a bachelor's degree going into vet school. I do have a 9 year old AAS degree, though. When I went back to college 3 years ago, it was to focus on the prefers. I never wanted a BS unless I didn't get accepted to a vet school my first cycle. A degree is not a requirement, just recommended, probably so there's a plan B already in place--you can go a lot farther in life with a 4 yr degree than without.

Sent using SDN Mobile

 

[AceRH731]

I think it's a great idea to apply early. I applied as a junior and was accepted, meaning I will not graduate with a bachelors but instead start vet school my senior year. If you don't get in early don't be discouraged but see it as a growing/learning experience. You will have a year to improve yourself and knock it out of the park next time. You will also still have your senior year to complete so you wouldn't have to look into taking more classes or starting a masters program!🙂

 

[Frozenshades]

Out of curiosity, would this mean you would go straight to vet school without ever graduating from undergrad? That seems a little weird to me.

I am. I started at a university straight out of high school, and this is my third year in undergrad and was my first application attempt. Got pretty darn close to finishing my B.S., but won't be. Maybe another year or semester of UG would've been fun, but eh, no regrets.

 

[KSU2015]

I will be applying this cycle as a junior at my undergrad- Kansas State! I have decent stats and great experiences so I will probably not be admitted this year but I am still trying 👍 I am hoping my passion and OOS status helps me be considered! Pray for me!

 

[that redhead]

If you have the pre-reqs done (or done by the spring semester), money for applications and possible interviews, I don't think it hurts to apply a year early. Like others have said, if you aren't accepted you can get feedback from the schools and focus on your "areas to focus on" for your "real" application cycle the following year.

There are definitely vet schools (UC Davis comes to mnid) that require you have a Bachelors to apply, and I believe Florida basically says they won't accept juniors. I think there's a benefit to getting that extra year (even if it's just fluff classes) but I wouldn't fault someone wanting to get started right away. We had a couple people defer a year here at AVC so they could complete their degree, but I'm not sure if other schools would go for that. Something to consider, anyway.

I'm glad I got my BS (although it wasn't exactly a choice at the time - my application was not ready) mostly because I started and completed something and paid a lot of money for it Failing out of school is relatively uncommon but it could happen and it would suck royally to not have anything to show for all of your hard work.

 

[skysong13]

I think a lot of universities do a 3+1 program where you can do three years and then after your first year in vet school they will grant you a degree. I didn't know until August that I was applying that year so I didn't take the right courses in order to get the 3+1. So now I am 3 classes from graduating as a junior and I don't currently plan on taking them, but I'm going to PVM in the fall anyways. I don't think it's necessary once you get a dvm anyways so I wouldn't worry about it. But the bright side is my undergraduate scholarships are transferring over to the vet school so next year I will have a big help off of tuition. After that who knows but at least first year I will only be looking at say 10-15k loans. But I applied to 6 and got in to 3, alternate at one, turned down interview at another, and didn't get in to one. So don't assume just because you're a junior you won't get in. I know someone that this year go in to PVM as a sophomore. Your age is not a factor for some schools.

 

[Frozenshades]

If you have the pre-reqs done (or done by the spring semester), money for applications and possible interviews, I don't think it hurts to apply a year early. Like others have said, if you aren't accepted you can get feedback from the schools and focus on your "areas to focus on" for your "real" application cycle the following year.

There are definitely vet schools (UC Davis comes to mnid) that require you have a Bachelors to apply, and I believe Florida basically says they won't accept juniors. I think there's a benefit to getting that extra year (even if it's just fluff classes) but I wouldn't fault someone wanting to get started right away. We had a couple people defer a year here at AVC so they could complete their degree, but I'm not sure if other schools would go for that. Something to consider, anyway.

I'm glad I got my BS (although it wasn't exactly a choice at the time - my application was not ready) mostly because I started and completed something and paid a lot of money for it Failing out of school is relatively uncommon but it could happen and it would suck royally to not have anything to show for all of your hard work.

Nope.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/students/dvm_program/admissions/DVM_Program_FAQ.cfm#q17

Maybe some do require it though.

 

[skittles12]

I am. I started at a university straight out of high school, and this is my third year in undergrad and was my first application attempt. Got pretty darn close to finishing my B.S., but won't be. Maybe another year or semester of UG would've been fun, but eh, no regrets.

Same here. I think I was only missing 2-3 classes to get my bachelor's, but I got into vet school instead! I think a couple of people in my class have gone a similar route. At UTK they give you points for the number of class hours you've completed, but if you have a high GPA it should make up for that if you only have 3 years of undergrad. I've had no regrets about it. 🙂

 

[Rainheart]

I know some vet schools will also allow you to count your first year of vet school as your 'senior' year per say and you can get your B.S. degree at that point, if you do go as a junior.

 

[Frozenshades]

I know some vet schools will also allow you to count your first year of vet school as your 'senior' year per say and you can get your B.S. degree at that point, if you do go as a junior.

Yeah that's what skysong was saying, with 3+1 programs. I'm sure it varies by school, but there's a list of requirements that you need to be eligible. I can't do it for TAMU because coincidentally enough, 2 of the 3 or 4 classes I'm shy of to graduate are absolutely required and they won't grant me a BS without completing them.

 

[SocialStigma]

I applied and got in as a junior. I highly recommend it because even if you don't end up getting accepted, you'll have a better idea of how the whole process works, what parts of your application to improve, and potentially how the interview works. And if you end up getting in, hey you just saved 1 year's worth of time and money!

My undergraduate program let me graduate with a 3 year BSc though, I just don't have a BSc (Honours) like I would have had I completed 4th year and done a thesis.

 

[LetItSnow]

(Disclaimer: Past posts about this are 3+ years old)

I have had some friends ask if I am going to apply to vet school as a junior. I was wondering if anyone out there thinks it would be worth it to try, or possibly a good experience to try applying early. I have many of the prereqs for the vet schools I would like to apply to, but am missing a few major ones, which would be o chem and physics. What are ya'lls thoughts on that?

.

If you will have them done by whatever time the schools to which you are applying require it, and you have a fairly competitive application (good experience, great references).... then yes, absolutely, don't think twice, you should apply.

Why not save yourself the extra year of undergrad tuition? And many (most? some?) vet schools will award you a B.S. degree upon completion of the first year if you didn't already have one.

 

[equineconstant]

Personally, I am very glad I did not apply as a junior. I probably wouldn't have gotten in if I had anyway since it's always been a four-year plan for me, but part of what I wanted out of college was the experience: going to random lectures that happened to be on campus, living in dorms, writing a senior thesis... Right now I'm really glad I had another year to hang out with my college friends and especially to be participating in Senior Week after finals. Some people choose to take a year off between undergrad and vet school. You've clearly got enough replies saying it can be worth applying as a junior. Basically, either way is valid and it's a personal choice; I'm just saying I have zero regrets about my choice not to do that.

 

[Emiloo4]

If you have the pre-reqs done (or done by the spring semester), money for applications and possible interviews, I don't think it hurts to apply a year early. Like others have said, if you aren't accepted you can get feedback from the schools and focus on your "areas to focus on" for your "real" application cycle the following year.

There are definitely vet schools (UC Davis comes to mnid) that require you have a Bachelors to apply, and I believe Florida basically says they won't accept juniors. I think there's a benefit to getting that extra year (even if it's just fluff classes) but I wouldn't fault someone wanting to get started right away. We had a couple people defer a year here at AVC so they could complete their degree, but I'm not sure if other schools would go for that. Something to consider, anyway.

I'm glad I got my BS (although it wasn't exactly a choice at the time - my application was not ready) mostly because I started and completed something and paid a lot of money for it Failing out of school is relatively uncommon but it could happen and it would suck royally to not have anything to show for all of your hard work.

Just wanted to correct the FL statement. I have two or three people in my class who got in as juniors and don't have their bachelors. Not sure if they get an honorary bachelors after a year or not though.

 

[MillersGirl60]

Wow, guys, that's great advice!! I'm surprised at how many people got in as juniors, gives me hope! 🙂

I'm a transfer student, so I have pretty much missed the college experience anyway. I will get a year at Davis at least, hopefully that will get it out of my system. 🙂

New question: As far as the GRE goes, I have not started studying yet. When does it need to be taken, and can you start working on the application without having your GRE scores? Is it worth buying the Kaplan program?




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[Frozenshades]

Wow, guys, that's great advice!! I'm surprised at how many people got in as juniors, gives me hope! 🙂

I'm a transfer student, so I have pretty much missed the college experience anyway. I will get a year at Davis at least, hopefully that will get it out of my system. 🙂

New question: As far as the GRE goes, I have not started studying yet. When does it need to be taken, and can you start working on the application without having your GRE scores? Is it worth buying the Kaplan program?




.

Take it anytime, as long as it's before the due date, which varies by school. You can submit your VMCAS anytime, irrelevant to sending GRE scores. I took it once, in July when I was working on applications. I did the kaplan online course. Basically, the material is just the same as if you self-study with the books, but if you need a structured outline to follow (basically, have the class to get in gear and stay on schedule with studying), the class is useful. I was busy with summer school and apps, so I know I would've procrastinated GRE prep which is why I did it; I think it was worth it, scored well enough.

 

[LetItSnow]

New question: As far as the GRE goes, I have not started studying yet. When does it need to be taken, and can you start working on the application without having your GRE scores? Is it worth buying the Kaplan program?

Are you good at standardized tests? Do you remember all the silly algebra and trig tricks? If so, just review the math book they send out (at least, if they still do it) when you register for the GRE and relax.

If you're one of those types that doesn't do well with standardized tests .... then I don't have any advice.

 

[that redhead]

Nope.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/students/dvm_program/admissions/DVM_Program_FAQ.cfm#q17

Maybe some do require it though.

Weird. I swear I saw a year ago or so that they were requiring you complete a degree! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills now

Just wanted to correct the FL statement. I have two or three people in my class who got in as juniors and don't have their bachelors. Not sure if they get an honorary bachelors after a year or not though.

👍 I had heard from junior applicants who did file reviews that they were told that UF "prefers" you complete your degree.

Sorry for the misinformation!

 

[MillersGirl60]

Are you good at standardized tests? Do you remember all the silly algebra and trig tricks? If so, just review the math book they send out (at least, if they still do it) when you register for the GRE and relax.

If you're one of those types that doesn't do well with standardized tests .... then I don't have any advice.

I don't know if I'm good at standardized tests, honestly! I have a colorful background, was homeschooled almost all the way through. Never took the SAT. I like trig tricks, though. 😉

 

[kakurubird]

Weird. I swear I saw a year ago or so that they were requiring you complete a degree! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills now

I think I had heard something where they tried requiring it for a year and then went back to not requiring it. So, no crazy pills.

 

[TXvet]

I applied junior year and was accepted. I am so happy I did! I do not have an undergrad. degree but who cares.

 

[kernel]

I do not have an undergrad. degree but who cares.

Part of me takes offense to that because I worked really hard for my undergrad degreeS and I take an enormous amount of pride in them. As I said earlier, everyone is different, and I realize that you were only speaking for yourself--still, I don't think you should be so quick to discredit all that hard work and accumulation of knowledge. My bachelors work certainly makes me a more well-rounded person (and future vet!), among other things. Those non-trads with liberal arts degrees around here have some of the most to offer, IMO.

We shouldn't shrug off the value of undergraduate schooling (I'm not talking about prereqs here). I learned a lot and I wouldn't be where I am today without it.

 

[cs5910]

To Kernel: +1000, couldn't agree more! 👍👍👍 I worked hard for my degree and am also very proud of it as well!

Also, personally, I would be angry at myself if all that money went into an undergrad education and I were to walk away with it empty handed. IMO of course. Plus, if I were to fail out of vet school, I am glad to have my BS in Bio, because I will have something to stand on.

 

[felinelvr44]

No one is telling you that you shouldn't be proud of your degrees -if my joking came off that way I apologize. You should definitely be proud. I freely admit I am incredibly cynical when it comes to bachelors degrees. I didn't work any less hard than you guys while earning my 130+ credits but I won't be getting a BA because I'm missing three credits of European History and three credits of "pluralism and diversity." Plus, when you see that every "entry level" position listed requires a BA and three years experience it's easy to get frustrated and question it's worth. My beef is with the American education system though, not you guys 😳

 

[Frozenshades]

Part of me takes offense to that because I worked really hard for my undergrad degreeS and I take an enormous amount of pride in them. As I said earlier, everyone is different, and I realize that you were only speaking for yourself--still, I don't think you should be so quick to discredit all that hard work and accumulation of knowledge. My bachelors work certainly makes me a more well-rounded person (and future vet!), among other things. Those non-trads with liberal arts degrees around here have some of the most to offer, IMO.

We shouldn't shrug off the value of undergraduate schooling (I'm not talking about prereqs here). I learned a lot and I wouldn't be where I am today without it.

To Kernel: +1000, couldn't agree more! 👍👍👍 I worked hard for my degree and am also very proud of it as well!

Also, personally, I would be angry at myself if all that money went into an undergrad education and I were to walk away with it empty handed. IMO of course. Plus, if I were to fail out of vet school, I am glad to have my BS in Bio, because I will have something to stand on.

Offering the benefit of the doubt that I don't think TXvet was necessarily taking a shot at the benefits and value of undergraduate education; it's definitely an achievement to be proud of to finish your bachelor's degree! I think the point was more so, from a practical standpoint, when you are seeking jobs or continuing education opportunities, the DVM, not the bachelor's, is what will matter. And furthermore, that he(she?) personally saw no problem not completing a BS/BA. Honestly, I feel the same way. I'm indifferent about not finishing my degree; one less year of school is just fine with me.

 

[BlackDog17]

Also, personally, I would be angry at myself if all that money went into an undergrad education and I were to walk away with it empty handed. IMO of course. Plus, if I were to fail out of vet school, I am glad to have my BS in Bio, because I will have something to stand on.

This would be my big concern if I were the one applying as a junior. I really developed my study habits and mental focus as a senior in my final classes. I don't think I could have survived vet school straight out of junior year. What if you fail out of vet school? What if you have a family emergency or a health issue and you're unable to return to school. Or what if you get there a decide that it's just not for you, as some do? Then you're left with thousands in debt and nothing to show for it. And most decent paying jobs these days require at least a Bachelor's, so unless you're prepared to go back and finish undergrad after all that, you're screwed.

Way too much risk there for someone like me, but to each his own.

 

[skysong13]

Idk, I won't be getting my bachelor's even though I only have 3 classes left. They're ones that you can't take online so I would have to come back and do a semester to finish. I personally don't have a big deal with it because as long as I do get through vet school (which the majority of people do) they won't be asking if I got my BS, but will really focus on my DVM. In addition, I probably don't have such a fuss about it because I don't have any debt because of scholarships/working/RA. If you do already have a lot of debt, and want to make sure you have that as a backup and don't mind taking on more debt, then go for your senior year (take it easy, I took a pretty easy junior year so it could be like my senior year and it has been awesome). It's one of those things that it's just a personal preference and if you look at your own pros and cons you will just have to decide.

 

[cs5910]

Luckily I was on an athletic scholarship so I didn't have to deal with undergrad debt, but it also didn't give me the opportunity to leave undergrad early. I had to stay all four years in order to be debt free. I felt like having a senior year gave me time to get heavily involved in a research program, which I think strengthened my application a lot. I also loved all the graduation activities haha The commencement ceremony helped me revamp and get motivated for vet school in a way I think!

 

[hygebeorht]

If you apply to a vet school and are unsuccessful, they allow you to schedule a "file review". This is typically an over the phone process where an admissions person goes through your application and lets you know what was strong about the app / what could use more work / etc. Every school does this I think.

Not every school does this. Colorado will typically only do this for waitlisted applicants. Instead they send out a "self-evaluation" form with the rejection letter. It's a kick in the pants.

No one is telling you that you shouldn't be proud of your degrees -if my joking came off that way I apologize. You should definitely be proud. I freely admit I am incredibly cynical when it comes to bachelors degrees. I didn't work any less hard than you guys while earning my 130+ credits but I won't be getting a BA because I'm missing three credits of European History and three credits of "pluralism and diversity." Plus, when you see that every "entry level" position listed requires a BA and three years experience it's easy to get frustrated and question it's worth. My beef is with the American education system though, not you guys 😳

I too have beef with the American education system. And I have relative amounts of pride in my various diplomas. I'm most proud of the one I had to work hardest to earn - and it was the "lowest level" one.

Any person with a pulse, money, and the ability to work a system can earn a bachelor's degree. Nevertheless, there are some that are incredibly difficult to attain. I definitely agree that degree inflation is a huge problem when you need a bachelor's to be a competitive applicant for a food service job.

More than anything else, it seems a bachelor's is a membership card.

If I didn't have a bachelor's I might not want to start vet school, because it is definitely a risk. Even if you're the best student ever, circumstances beyond your control could prevent you from completing the program, and then where are you? Tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and with no degree to help you. It would make me far too nervous...I'd finish the bachelors. 🙂

For that same reason, I'm currently completing an MS...I've been studying science for 2.5 years and I'd like something to show for it. Something that could have gotten me a job if I never got into vet school. 😉

 

[DVMDream]

Not every school does this. Colorado will typically only do this for waitlisted applicants. Instead they send out a "self-evaluation" form with the rejection letter. It's a kick in the pants.

Unless, CSU changed something very recently this is not true. I applied there and was flat-out rejected and was given a file review over the phone for a good 30 minutes.

 

[BlackDog17]

Unless, CSU changed something very recently this is not true. I applied there and was flat-out rejected and was given a file review over the phone for a good 30 minutes.

I think they may have just changed it this year. I received the self-evaluation crap from them too.

 

[DVMDream]

I think they may have just changed it this year. I received the self-evaluation crap from them too.

👎

Although, hearing about how great their school is and how competitive you have to be and how my (at the time) 3.7GPA was "sub-standard" for their school really wasn't a big help either.

 

[Easnadh]

The first time I applied to CSU and was rejected in 2010, they said all you had to do was request an evaluation via email (at that point they did NOT want phone calls) and they would send you a nice, detailed file review. Mine was very, very helpful, and covered every part of my application.

I imagine they still do that.... I don't know why they wouldn't.

Not going to lie though, I'm happy I didn't need to find out this past cycle 😀

Edit: Sorry, missed the "self-evaluation" from this year thing... that seems like a crappy deal :/ if you don't mind my asking, what did it look like?

 

[DVMDream]

The first time I applied to CSU and was rejected in 2010, they said all you had to do was request an evaluation via email (at that point they did NOT want phone calls) and they would send you a nice, detailed file review. Mine was very, very helpful, and covered every part of my application.

I imagine they still do that.... I don't know why they wouldn't.

Not going to lie though, I'm happy I didn't need to find out this past cycle 😀

Edit: Sorry, missed the "self-evaluation" from this year thing... that seems like a crappy deal :/ if you don't mind my asking, what did it look like?

I applied in 2009 to start in 2010, I sent an email and they set up a phone review for me. The reviewer called me on the phone. The review was everything that I had guessed, but the person I talked to was not nice and had a very "CSU is the BEST" mentality.

 

[Easnadh]

I am actually glad I got an email rather than a phone call. it gave me something to refer back to often, and I think I still have it buried in the back of my email inbox. I do remember that year being the first they did emails rather than phone calls though. It was also the first year they had completely dropped interviews.

 

[DVMDream]

I am actually glad I got an email rather than a phone call. it gave me something to refer back to often, and I think I still have it buried in the back of my email inbox. I do remember that year being the first they did emails rather than phone calls though. It was also the first year they had completely dropped interviews.

I took notes when she called. Then threw them away because it wasn't anything I didn't already now and it was her basically saying that I wouldn't be good enough for CSU.....

So I just got myself accepted to their sister school instead....

 

[Easnadh]

So I just got myself accepted to their sister school instead....

👍👍 I hope to take advantage of that sister status 🙂

 

[DVMDream]

👍👍 I hope to take advantage of that sister status 🙂

👍

I might too. Would be nice to see how they run things over there. Unfortunately, there are 5 spots for that transfer and over 100 students. I will try to do it, but probably won't be able to.

(Aside: I have nothing against CSU at all. Just felt that the lady who did my file review needed to come back down to Earth for a bit.)