apply DO this year or wait a year for MD?

[jackson1]

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hey guys, I'd really appreciate your opinions on this. I got a 26M (PS-7 VR-10 BS-9) on my mcat which clearly isn't going to cut it for MD schools. I prepared for about a month studying maybe 100 hours maximum and taking 2 practice tests. I'm confident that if I really buckle down and study about 20 hours a week until the January test I'll get >30. My mom asked me today though why I wouldn't apply to DO schools and start in 2009 and I didn't really have a good answer for her. I don't want to be limited in residency choices as I don't really know what I want to specialize in yet, but is this still a problem for DO's or not so much anymore? Thanks for any opinions!!

ps-I have a 3.93 overall gpa and 3.86 bcmp gpa if that makes any difference

 

[Lokhtar]

Seems like you'd prefer to go the MD route, so you should buckle down and aim for a 28-29+. You can probably get away with a 28 or 29 (assuming its balanced) because your GPA is above average.

 

[princessMD]

I have the same question. My undergrad GPA is 3.4 (BCPM and Overall), My MCAT is a 30- (11PS-8VR-11BS). I am going a SMP, GPA is 3.7-3.8. Should I apply to DO schools or would I have a shot at MD schools.

 

[chemolupusMD]

As far as i know i believe that DO can actually give u more options. u can apply to DO residencies and MD ones (as long as u take the USMLs and the Complex). but if u dont want to do DO dont. if u really just want to be an MD wait a year. If u just want to be a doctor do DO now.

 

[chemolupusMD]

I have the same question. My undergrad GPA is 3.4 (BCPM and Overall), My MCAT is a 30- (11PS-8VR-11BS). I am going a SMP, GPA is 3.7-3.8. Should I apply to DO schools or would I have a shot at MD schools.

hey we have the same scores for MCAT😀. I think that if you want to be a doctor just do both (ofcourse if u have the money to do both apps). I still think that you could get in some Mds programs if u apply early, and mostly u ll get accepted in many DO programs. At the end is up to u wut letters u want at the end of ur name

 

[Decicco]

I would recommend studying as hard as you can for the MCAT and doing really well on the retake. I also got a 26 the first time, but improved it to a 35. A 26 is close to a good score, and with more effort, I am sure that you can become competitve at MD schools. I don't recommend going the DO route if you think that you can improve your MCAT--remember, this is a life long decision, so you don't want to rush into a program you don't want to be at.

Good luck!!

 

[jackson1]

thanks for the comments! Decicco, I checked out your mdapps-do you think it's worth buying the NOVA physics even though I already have EK and kaplan? Also, any other insight as to your study methods would be greatly appreciated🙂

 

[stixx]

I agree with everyone here...especially since you already have a 10 verbal. The sciences seem to be the easiest scores to improve on.

 

[Decicco]

thanks for the comments! Decicco, I checked out your mdapps-do you think it's worth buying the NOVA physics even though I already have EK and kaplan? Also, any other insight as to your study methods would be greatly appreciated🙂

ABSOLUTELY buy the nova physics book. They sell it at Barnes and Noble. I also had EK and Kaplan. Use Nova first, then the other two, and make sure that you feel comfortable doing EVERY nova problem.

Then, I recommend doing all of the Kaplan section, subject, and practice tests. Do this, in additon to studying the EK and Kaplan books you already have, and I see an MD acceptance in your future 👍

Hit the PS hard, your other scores are already acceptabe, but study them too. Don't take the MCAT until you are consistently scoring 30+ on your practice exams.

Good luck!

 

[beachblonde]

Maybe you should apply to DO now, and see how you feel about it in a few months? This process takes forever, who knows, maybe 6 months down the line you'll have a better idea which way you want to go. And if you don't want to go DO, just withdraw.

And with your stats, I get the feeling you could waltz easily into an acceptance at VCOM. Just a thought.

 

[TupacalipseT96]

Study for the MCAT forreal this time and do well...one month is not sufficient. And there is no reason to rush medical school, if you want a competitive residency later you may regret jumping for DO. You seem to have the right setup for MD, you just gotta make it through the last 20 meters.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

As far as i know i believe that DO can actually give u more options. u can apply to DO residencies and MD ones (as long as u take the USMLs and the Complex). but if u dont want to do DO dont. if u really just want to be an MD wait a year. If u just want to be a doctor do DO now.

1. DO licensing exam is called the COMLEX

2. Going DO may give you numerically more programs to apply to but it is misleading to suggest that this means that you have "more options." Being a DO closes many more doors than it opens.

 

[JaggerPlate]

GOOD GOD. Honestly just don't ever ask this question anywhere. If you ask it in pre-allo all you get is twenty 18 year olds who haven't ever stepped foot on a medical campus, lecturing on the downfalls of the DO, and if you ask it in pre-osteo all you will get is people telling you a 22 is fine and if you work hard you can land plastics at Harvard.

Bottom line ... studying for a month and taking a few practice tests really isn't defining your potential. Re-study, take the test and make the decision on your own. Everyone here has an agenda, do your own research that isn't in a forum with 'pre' in front of it. 👎

 

[fire2]

Study again and rock the MCAT. DO/Caribbean schools will always be there to fall back on. You don't need those yet.

Good luck!

 

[Decicco]

GOOD GOD. Honestly just don't ever ask this question anywhere. If you ask it in pre-allo all you get is twenty 18 year olds who haven't ever stepped foot on a medical campus, lecturing on the downfalls of the DO

I thought that AmoryBlaine was a resident... Also, its funny how the same people always show up whenever the word DO is used in the pre-allo forum

 

[JaggerPlate]

I thought that AmoryBlaine was a resident... Also, its funny how the same people always show up whenever the word DO is used in the pre-allo forum

I agree ... you do show up whenever the DO degree is brought up in pre-allo. I've always understood why, but predictable nonetheless. AmoryBlaine may be a resident, but his views on the DO degree are well known (to me at least). I've had various heated discussions with him about it, and since he did not attend an Osteopathic Medical school, his banter means nothing. I suppose for now I'll just have to realize that these threads give people such as yourself some pathetic sense of satisfaction, and live with the personal realization that some people are comically out of touch with reality. So, go climb back into your cave and have a good night.

 

[Caesar]

Lets stray away from the DO vs. MD debate.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Lets stray away from the DO vs. MD debate.

Can the thread just be locked??? The OP has received plenty of advice and the thread is guaranteed to continue this way.

 

[Decicco]

OP, since you asked, I still have my NOVA Physics book. PM me if you are interested in it. Good luck, I'm sure everything will turn out as you hope!

 

[Bacchus]

Children behave, thats what the say when we're together
And, watch how you play...

Frankly, with your numbers, if you can improve your MCAT score you can have great potential at a lot of MD schools. If you associate with the DO philosophies and OMM then apply DO. If not, increase that MCAT score.

 

[Bacchus]

We will use our best judgment. This is not particularly inflammatory. It is stating the obvious about residencies which both sides will atest to.

 

[mterp45]

be patient, work hard and you will be applying in about 9 months for the year 2010.

 

[RSAgator]

seriously, if you want to go MD then work for it and actually study for the MCAT. You studied very little and got a below average MD score, what did you expect? It seems like your reasons for applying to a DO school are laziness more than anything else...

 

[AmoryBlaine]

I agree ... you do show up whenever the DO degree is brought up in pre-allo. I've always understood why, but predictable nonetheless. AmoryBlaine may be a resident, but his views on the DO degree are well known (to me at least). I've had various heated discussions with him about it, and since he did not attend an Osteopathic Medical school, his banter means nothing. I suppose for now I'll just have to realize that these threads give people such as yourself some pathetic sense of satisfaction, and live with the personal realization that some people are comically out of touch with reality. So, go climb back into your cave and have a good night.

1. If you are pre-medical you haven't attended an OMS either, so your banter also means nothing.

2. I get very little "satisfaction" - pathetic or otherwise - out of conveying true information on an anonymous internet forum.

3. This particular resident who is "comically out of touch with reality" has actually applied for residency, interviewed, and gone through the match. He has also interacted with numerous DO students and residents who have had problems getting the residencies of their choice.

4. You fail to see that discussing real pros/cons of the DO route is not "an agenda." It has nothing to do with a personal bias against osteopathic physicians (which I do not have) and everything to do with educating others about issues they probably will have to deal with. It does pre-medical students no great service to let them labor under the misconception that a DO education is a good stepping stone to competitive residencies at prestigious hospitals.

 

[fire2]

1. If you are pre-medical you haven't attended an OMS either, so your banter also means nothing.

2. I get very little "satisfaction" - pathetic or otherwise - out of conveying true information on an anonymous internet forum.

3. This particular resident who is "comically out of touch with reality" has actually applied for residency, interviewed, and gone through the match. He has also interacted with numerous DO students and residents who have had problems getting the residencies of their choice.

4. You fail to see that discussing real pros/cons of the DO route is not "an agenda." It has nothing to do with a personal bias against osteopathic physicians (which I do not have) and everything to do with educating others about issues they probably will have to deal with. It does pre-medical students no great service to let them labor under the misconception that a DO education is a good stepping stone to competitive residencies at prestigious hospitals.

👍

 

[Wylde]

Everything else is in order except for your MCAT (which is improvable), if you will not be as happy at a DO school, you do not need to attend one.

A) Less happy at a DO school for 4 years. (and possibly worse residencies)

or

B) More happy at an MD school for 5 years. (and possibly better residencies)

I would take "B" 100/100 times. You will be very competitive for MD schools with a good MCAT, don't compromise for just one year.

 

[JaggerPlate]

1. If you are pre-medical you haven't attended an OMS either, so your banter also means nothing.

Nor have I ever said that it does. I'm the first one to admit that I am a pre-med, but also the first one to jump down other pre-meds throats for talking out of their ass. My post wasn't really directed at you, but since your tone makes me want to kick something ... I'll play along.

2. I get very little "satisfaction" - pathetic or otherwise - out of conveying true information on an anonymous internet forum.

Once again, wasn't directed at you, but I do find that almost every MD vs DO thread that pops up in pre-allo has a response from you somewhere inside. Do I think that you're conveying 'true' information as a public service, and would do so in any other thread/unrelated topic?? No.

3. This particular resident who is "comically out of touch with reality" has actually applied for residency, interviewed, and gone through the match. He has also interacted with numerous DO students and residents who have had problems getting the residencies of their choice.

AND AGAIN ... this wasn't directed towards you, but I'm as inclined to take your LIMITED experience with DO students the same as someone who 'shadowed over two physicians and knows ____ for a fact.' If you read my earlier posts, I flat out said it's foolish for people to expect all MD residency opportunities as a DO. You can work your ass off, but you aren't going to land integrated plastics at UCSF, basically, no matter what you do. However, DOs land MD residencies all over the place, and your attitude is one of a slammed door, not a steeper mountain.

4. You fail to see that discussing real pros/cons of the DO route is not "an agenda." It has nothing to do with a personal bias against osteopathic physicians (which I do not have) and everything to do with educating others about issues they probably will have to deal with. It does pre-medical students no great service to let them labor under the misconception that a DO education is a good stepping stone to competitive residencies at prestigious hospitals.

NO I DO NOT. Jesus, I have said in numerous, numerous posts that I am aware of the cons of DOs trying to land MD residencies. However I do not think the statement: ' Going DO closes more doors than it opens,' is much of a discussion, nor do I see you discussing the pros. Bottom line is that if you didn't have an agenda, you wouldn't post in the threads. If you were really that 'good' of a person you will post in every 'what are my chances,' 'how is the state of medicine going to affect me,' and 'where should I apply,' thread on the board. BUT, you don't. You only 'discuss the pros and cons' of MD vs DO. Isn't there potential downfalls and valid advice from someone who has completed the process to be discussed in each of those topics??

So bottom line:
1. I know I sound like a pompous ass talking to you this way. You're a resident, and believe it or not, I understand that you know 10^8 more than me when it comes to these discussions. I respect your experience and I do believe you don't have a bias towards Osteopathic Physicians.

2. My beef was honestly 99% with Decicco or whatever because the only time I see it posting on the boards it is in MD vs DO discussions and you can view our past battles and try to tell me there isn't an uneducated bias there, but I doubt you'll reach that conclusion.

3. I am aware of the struggles of trying to land MD residencies with a DO behind your name. I'm not trying to ignore it, and I blatantly state that anyone who says you can get into a DO school with a 22, 'work hard,' and then complete a Neurosurg residency at Harvard (despite the fact that their Chief of PM&R is a DO) is kidding themselves. However, at the same time it is NOT impossible to work hard and achieve success in MD residencies as a DO. Are certain fields more saturated than others?? Of course, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T happen. I also think people completely disregard ALL AOA residencies, and this is also foolish.

4. 'Fire2,' you should really get some kneepads if you're gonna keep this up pal.

5. I've said what I'm going to say, that entire quoted response was directed at another poster ... etc, etc, etc.

 

[Bacchus]

Alright, this thread was going in a great direction, however I think its veering off to the manure pile right now, lets stop it dead in its tracks and stop bickering.

 

[bcat85]

I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but OP, with a 3.9 gpa, you would be shooting yourself in the foot to go the D.O. route when you could go the M.D. route after one year. This is not a knock against D.O.'s (as I feel that in these forums it's almost necessary to say this), but it does set you up to get competitive residencies at better hospitals. That being said, if you don't pull up your MCAT, go D.O. and rock it out. Good luck.

 

[Decicco]

Alright, this thread was going in a great direction, however I think its veering off to the manure pile right now, lets stop it dead in its tracks and stop bickering.

Quoted for truth.👍

 

[fire2]

I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but OP, with a 3.9 gpa, you would be shooting yourself in the foot to go the D.O. route when you could go the M.D. route after one year. This is not a knock against D.O.'s (as I feel that in these forums it's almost necessary to say this), but it does set you up to get competitive residencies at better hospitals. That being said, if you don't pull up your MCAT, go D.O. and rock it out. Good luck.

No worries. You didn't miss much by not reading all. Everyone agrees, (except, of course, for our gratuitous pottymouth pre-DO troll, JaggerDO). But we of course have to play it politically correct and pretend to not ignore him... 😉

 

[Decicco]

No worries. You didn't miss much by not reading all. Everyone agrees, (except, of course, for our gratuitous pottymouth pre-DO troll, JaggerDO). But we of course have to play it politically correct and pretend to not ignore him... 😉

Cool it, lets get back on topic, k?

 

[JaggerPlate]

No worries. You didn't miss much by not reading all. Everyone agrees, (except, of course, for our gratuitous pottymouth pre-DO troll, JaggerDO). But we of course have to play it politically correct and pretend to not ignore him... 😉

Joined: July 2008. Posts: 7.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Cool it, lets get back on topic, k?

agreed. I'm gonna bow out of this one if it continues as a flame war.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Honestly OP, it's a very personal decision. I know its a lame answer but it is what it is. The only thing people can do is present you with the facts and their opinions (usually biased for obvious reasons). Consider what you expect out of a medical school and what type of medicine you envision yourself practicing. Pick the path that will best help you achieve these goals.

 

[Decicco]

The OP might be buying some of my old study material, so I think she is going to retake the MCAT. I think she made the right choice and I wish her the best of luck.

My main reason for posting in this thread in the first place was because I was in a near identical situation as her (same MCAT, similar GPA), and things turned out very well for me. From her post, it sounded like she viewed going to DO school as "settling," although I agree that not everyone views DO school this way. When I was deciding whether to retake after my 26 MCAT, these were the kind of things people told me:

The obvious solution is to retake the MCAT and get a higher score.

Retaking the MCAT sucks, but look at it this way: You're extremely close to a good score as all sections are very close to ten. If you take a prep course you should be able to retake, do better, and be in great shape.

you have the ability to score well on the MCAT. Take a prep course, sell your soul - whatever people do to improve their 2nd attempt. With the MCAT offered so many times a year, it's not even a gamble.

I was in "crisis mode" back then. These comments, back in 2007, made all the difference for me and set me on what I now see as the right path. I was trying to do something similar in this thread.

In fact, you posted in this thread too, JaggerPlate (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=445646), and offered good advice.

 

[JaggerPlate]

The OP might be buying some of my old study material, so I think s/he is going to retake the MCAT. I think he made the right choice and I wish him the best of luck.

My main reason for posting in this thread in the first place was because I was in a near identical situation as him (same MCAT, similar GPA), and things turned out very well for me. From his post, it sounded like he viewed going to DO school as "settling," although I agree that not everyone views DO school this way. When I was deciding whether to retake after my 26 MCAT, these were the kind of things people told me:








I was in "crisis mode" back then. These comments, back in 2007, made all the difference for me and set me on what I now see as the right path. I was trying to do something similar in this thread.

In fact, you posted in this thread too, JaggerPlate (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=445646), and offered good advice.

All very good advice (lol it's funny I posted too, I don't remember), and you are obviously a success story when it comes to MCAT retakes. I understand the DO as settling mindset, and I also understand wanting to feel like you put 100% effort into applying to medical schools. 👍

... all seems well.

 

[PreMedPrincess]

JaggerPlate, you have "beef" with someone on an internet forum?

also, WHY ON EARTH would someone take your advice over a resident?

Bottom line, if you want to be competative for competative allopathic residencies, you should go to an alopathic school and do well on the USMLEs.

 

[jackson1]

Thanks for so many replies everyone!! You all really helped with my decision. I've decided to study my but off and retake the MCAT in January. Thanks again everyone!

 

[JaggerPlate]

Thanks for so many replies everyone!! You all really helped with my decision. I've decided to study my but off and retake the MCAT in January. Thanks again everyone!

Sounds good!! Study smart, ace the test, and apply broadly (whether that means all over for MD or all over for MD and DO). Best of luck. 👍

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Nor have I ever said that it does. I'm the first one to admit that I am a pre-med, but also the first one to jump down other pre-meds throats for talking out of their ass. My post wasn't really directed at you, but since your tone makes me want to kick something ... I'll play along.

Once again, wasn't directed at you, but I do find that almost every MD vs DO thread that pops up in pre-allo has a response from you somewhere inside. Do I think that you're conveying 'true' information as a public service, and would do so in any other thread/unrelated topic?? No.

AND AGAIN ... this wasn't directed towards you, but I'm as inclined to take your LIMITED experience with DO students the same as someone who 'shadowed over two physicians and knows ____ for a fact.' If you read my earlier posts, I flat out said it's foolish for people to expect all MD residency opportunities as a DO. You can work your ass off, but you aren't going to land integrated plastics at UCSF, basically, no matter what you do. However, DOs land MD residencies all over the place, and your attitude is one of a slammed door, not a steeper mountain.

NO I DO NOT. Jesus, I have said in numerous, numerous posts that I am aware of the cons of DOs trying to land MD residencies. However I do not think the statement: ' Going DO closes more doors than it opens,' is much of a discussion, nor do I see you discussing the pros. Bottom line is that if you didn't have an agenda, you wouldn't post in the threads. If you were really that 'good' of a person you will post in every 'what are my chances,' 'how is the state of medicine going to affect me,' and 'where should I apply,' thread on the board. BUT, you don't. You only 'discuss the pros and cons' of MD vs DO. Isn't there potential downfalls and valid advice from someone who has completed the process to be discussed in each of those topics??

So bottom line:
1. I know I sound like a pompous ass talking to you this way. You're a resident, and believe it or not, I understand that you know 10^8 more than me when it comes to these discussions. I respect your experience and I do believe you don't have a bias towards Osteopathic Physicians.

2. My beef was honestly 99% with Decicco or whatever because the only time I see it posting on the boards it is in MD vs DO discussions and you can view our past battles and try to tell me there isn't an uneducated bias there, but I doubt you'll reach that conclusion.

3. I am aware of the struggles of trying to land MD residencies with a DO behind your name. I'm not trying to ignore it, and I blatantly state that anyone who says you can get into a DO school with a 22, 'work hard,' and then complete a Neurosurg residency at Harvard (despite the fact that their Chief of PM&R is a DO) is kidding themselves. However, at the same time it is NOT impossible to work hard and achieve success in MD residencies as a DO. Are certain fields more saturated than others?? Of course, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T happen. I also think people completely disregard ALL AOA residencies, and this is also foolish.

4. 'Fire2,' you should really get some kneepads if you're gonna keep this up pal.

5. I've said what I'm going to say, that entire quoted response was directed at another poster ... etc, etc, etc.

Well then it's strange that you specifically named me in your post and then went on to say all the things to which I responded.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Well then it's strange that you specifically named me in your post and then went on to say all the things to which I responded.

I'm done with the off topic nature of this discussion. I stated why I responded to your comments, and it is your decision to not believe me. I'm more than happy to have a pro/con discussion concerning DO schools, but I won't let this thread travel further off topic (ie: not here). Thanks.