Apply MD/PhD and PhD only the same time??? Possible???

[Gogogirl]

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Merry Christmas to everyone!~~

My question is that if I want to apply MD/PhD and PhD at the same time (application year, I know they are two totally different processes and have different timelines), is it possible? Will it be look down upon as a sign of lack of commitment by medical school? I really like research and always want to be a MD, but I want to have a back up plan so I dont have to wait an extra year to apply if I don't get in MD/PhD.
P.S. I want to do a PhD on Biochemistry, Molecular and Cellular Biology or maybe Parmacology. Thanks in advance!

 

[Evergrey]

From what I understand, it's much easier to go MD->PhD then it is PhD->MD. Also, it's apparently looked down upon if you start a graduate program and then leave it to do MD or MD/PhD.

 

[flashback]

I was planning on doing this... here is my advice.

First, if you want to do this, you REALLY need to plan everything very well. While applying to PhD programs is substantially less work, when you pile taking the GRE, and biochemistry specific GRE, and all the applications for programs and fellowships etc. you're probably not going to have a very happy semester. I simply couldn't do it because I started too late and underestimated the time it would take to do secondaries, interviews, etc. My MD/PhD applications would have suffered substantially.

If you really want to do this, you need your MCAT done asap and your MD/PhD apps in probably the first couple weeks that it is open.
Since I've applied, I've come to realize that Med School is really what would be my backup. I know that I want to work with people and if I pursue a PhD I really won't ever have the option. Alternatively, going the MD-only route still provides the opportunity for pursuing research even without the PhD.

During interviews the question of "what would you do if you coudln't do MD/PhD" has come up many times. While some people will admire you for replying "PhD only," I don't feel like this is a good answer in retrospect. They want people who are committed to translational research and working with people. Most schools really do not want to put thos kinds of resources into you if you are ultimately going to go into basic sciences.
My sense is that if you are willing to go PhD-only then some people will interpret that as you willing to sacrafice your ability to work with patients. While not everyone will have this perspective, I feel that the majority of people who will interview you will feel this way. There are, of course, some exceptions though.

 

[Gogogirl]

I was planning on doing this... here is my advice.

First, if you want to do this, you REALLY need to plan everything very well. While applying to PhD programs is substantially less work, when you pile taking the GRE, and biochemistry specific GRE, and all the applications for programs and fellowships etc. you're probably not going to have a very happy semester. I simply couldn't do it because I started too late and underestimated the time it would take to do secondaries, interviews, etc. My MD/PhD applications would have suffered substantially.

If you really want to do this, you need your MCAT done asap and your MD/PhD apps in probably the first couple weeks that it is open.
Since I've applied, I've come to realize that Med School is really what would be my backup. I know that I want to work with people and if I pursue a PhD I really won't ever have the option. Alternatively, going the MD-only route still provides the opportunity for pursuing research even without the PhD.

During interviews the question of "what would you do if you coudln't do MD/PhD" has come up many times. While some people will admire you for replying "PhD only," I don't feel like this is a good answer in retrospect. They want people who are committed to translational research and working with people. Most schools really do not want to put thos kinds of resources into you if you are ultimately going to go into basic sciences.
My sense is that if you are willing to go PhD-only then some people will interpret that as you willing to sacrafice your ability to work with patients. While not everyone will have this perspective, I feel that the majority of people who will interview you will feel this way. There are, of course, some exceptions though.

Thanks so much for your reply and advice. I do understand that by applying to PhD and MD/PhD the same application cycle would put me in a lot of stress. Let's say hypothetically that I can handle the stress well, you think medical school will see my application to the graduate programs of the medical school and think I am not that committed to MD?..I have always wanted to be a MD. But ever since I started to do undergrad research, I am having a lot of second thoughts...I love research and know that I could do research as a MD...I just want to explore the possibility...thanks a lot!

 

[luckyducky87]

I was thinking of this as well!! I assume you're applying for med schools next summer and grad schools the following fall (of 2010)?

My only concern was (besides factors that depend on me, such as planning ahead of time, getting all the test scores in, etc) asking for letters of recommendations... I know I'd probably have to ask the same set of professors -- obviously for the PhD programs, I need to ask professors who knows me from research and hardcore science perspectives, including PI's... but also obviously for MD/PhD programs, I'd need to ask professors who know me well from research and other basic sciences. I'm guessing these professors write letters like "I think XX would be a great MD/MDPhD/PhD candidate because..." so I'm not sure how it'd work if I ask them for rec letters for TWO different programs

 

[Gogogirl]

I was thinking of this as well!! I assume you're applying for med schools next summer and grad schools the following fall (of 2010)?

My only concern was (besides factors that depend on me, such as planning ahead of time, getting all the test scores in, etc) asking for letters of recommendations... I know I'd probably have to ask the same set of professors -- obviously for the PhD programs, I need to ask professors who knows me from research and hardcore science perspectives, including PI's... but also obviously for MD/PhD programs, I'd need to ask professors who know me well from research and other basic sciences. I'm guessing these professors write letters like "I think XX would be a great MD/MDPhD/PhD candidate because..." so I'm not sure how it'd work if I ask them for rec letters for TWO different programs

Yeah..I know! that means I will have to annoy the heck out of them. I am already the suffer-in-silience type and now I will have to ask everyone twice for recommendations...wish I could do it for them...but, yeah, good luck to you and I guess both of us will just have to plan our time well..!~~

 

[luckyducky87]

Haha yeah, also, I'm wondering if I'd make it harder for them to write about how I'll be a good fit for each program, if they have to write about two different programs and they don't perceive me as committed...

But also, I just realized (or maybe this was embedded in your original question) -- if I apply to X school's MSTP program and X school's graduate program as well, will the graduate admissions committee see that I've applied to two separate programs, and therefore perceive me as uncommitted? I guess I'm not entirely sure who gets to see my applications at what stage in the MSTP app cycle). Does the graduate department (of biochemistry, chemistry, biomedicine, whatever) have access to the MSTP applicants' files as well? Or does the med school admissions function entirely separate from the academic graduate department?

(I guess Gogogirl, your question was whether the med school will know that you applied to 2 programs; I'd think that if anything, the grad school will know that I've applied to 2 programs...?)

 

[Drexon]

To my knowledge the MD/PhD program functions is separate from the PhD track at MY school. They're called different program names and they have different directors. However there are overlap on committee members. Let me clarify; people on the PhD committee might also appear on the MD/PhD committee so they might be your application to both. Vice versa might apply as well. Just be mindful of the interviewers etc.