apply to only top 30?

[Dox4lyfe]

---

Members do not see this ad.

If I'm fine with taking a gap year and doing full time research for a year or two, does it make sense to apply to only top 30 schools. I know that the worst thing you could do is to turn down acceptances in hopes of landing somewhere better the following cycle. But, if I were to get into any of the top 30 I apply to, I would obviously attend. Does this logic make sense? I need help thinking this out. Thanks!

 

[mw18]

If I'm fine with taking a gap year and doing full time research for a year or two, does it make sense to apply to only top 30 schools. I know that the worst thing you could do is to turn down acceptances in hopes of landing somewhere better the following cycle. But, if I were to get into any of the top 30 I apply to, I would obviously attend. Does this logic make sense? I need help thinking this out. Thanks!

I think the best idea is to apply when you're ready, and to apply to a broad number of schools (all of which you would attend if it was your only acceptance). Because the two ways you're seeing your plan work out is that you get accepted to a "top 30" school, which is a win. Or you don't, and you re-apply (presumably to the top 30 again plus some safer schools) and then you get in. But what if your status as a re-applicant hurts you your second time and taking a year doesn't overcome that.

You're probably gonna get murdered for this question if this thread picks up. I kinda see where you're coming from, but I think you should consider what it is about those rankings that make schools appealing for you. I'm curious as to what you think about your career will be different. I think prestige does matter to an extent (we want to be proud of our school and whatnot), but I also think that whatever ranking system you're using probably has schools from, say, 21-30 that are pretty indistinguishable from some of the schools that are 31-40, and so on.

 

[markovchn123]

If you want to only apply to top 30 schools then go ahead, but make sure you have a chance (high GPA and MCAT). But why only top 30? If you get into a school with a lower rank next to its name, you're still gonna take the step 1, take the same basic courses, and become a physician.

 

[Natural_Obsessions]

applications are a lot of $$$$

 

[Lucca]

It is better to choose a school list more carefully tailored to your application, goals, and interests than merely applying based on USNWR. The top 30 are not interchangeable and many schools outside of the top 30 could have a lot to offer you.

Use your LizzyM and the MSAR to narrow your list down to realistic schools. What kind of career do you want? Do you have any particular specialty interests? What kind of curriculum do you prefer? Location preference? Are you applying to all of your state schools?

Etc

 

[efle]

I need help thinking this out.

You need to post your stats and summary of your app before anyone can help you!

 

[Dox4lyfe]

Just to answer some of the questions for clarifications. For a long time, I thought "prestige" mattered for med school. Then, I realized that graduates from any med school come out with almost the exact same knowledge and experiences. However, after looking at the match lists and average step 1 and 2 scores, it seems like a majority of the schools in the top 30 area (no hard dividing line) have higher proportions of students going into specialty residencies and especially the more competitive residencies (derm, Neuro, ortho,etc.). To clarify, I'm not fixated on going into a specialty and it's not that I find the top 30 "appealing," I just don't want to potentially be limiting my potential by going to a lower ranked school, when going to a higher ranked would allow me to keep my options more open. Does this make sense?

 

[efle]

Just to answer some of the questions for clarifications. For a long time, I thought "prestige" mattered for med school. Then, I realized that graduates from any med school come out with almost the exact same knowledge and experiences. However, after looking at the match lists and average step 1 and 2 scores, it seems like a majority of the schools in the top 30 area (no hard dividing line) have higher proportions of students going into specialty residencies and especially the more competitive residencies (derm, Neuro, ortho,etc.). To clarify, I'm not fixated on going into a specialty and it's not that I find the top 30 "appealing," I just don't want to potentially be limiting my potential by going to a lower ranked school, when going to a higher ranked would allow me to keep my options more open. Does this make sense?

You have to first be competitive for these schools before you start considering their advantages! Do you have an MCAT score? GPA? Research and other ECs?

 

[tarheelpenner]

Just to answer some of the questions for clarifications. For a long time, I thought "prestige" mattered for med school. Then, I realized that graduates from any med school come out with almost the exact same knowledge and experiences. However, after looking at the match lists and average step 1 and 2 scores, it seems like a majority of the schools in the top 30 area (no hard dividing line) have higher proportions of students going into specialty residencies and especially the more competitive residencies (derm, Neuro, ortho,etc.). To clarify, I'm not fixated on going into a specialty and it's not that I find the top 30 "appealing," I just don't want to potentially be limiting my potential by going to a lower ranked school, when going to a higher ranked would allow me to keep my options more open. Does this make sense?

That may be true, but I don't think that going to a lower ranked school would necessarily "close" those doors for you. For reference, Drexel matched 5 people into derm this past year, and are ranked in the 80's on US News and World Report. Just to clarify for you, those rankings are based on research ($, grants, etc.). Schools that are focused more on clinical can still be an amazing school but not rank as highly on that list. Now, the flip side is that you need strong research to match into a competitive specialty. So that is simply easier to do at a school with high research rankings, because they have more research opportunities. But as long as the school you go to has research opportunities and a reputations for producing competent doctors, it is possible to match into any specialty you want. Jeff, for example, matched a neurosurgery resident at Hopkins.

That's not to say that there are not benefits to graduating from a "big name" school, because there certainly are. All you have to do is look at the match lists to figure that out. Just once you get past the top 10-20, it doesn't play as big of a role as one might think. If you look at the chart data for residency matching, graduating from a "prestigious" medical school is pretty low down on the list of factors. It's still on the list, but there are many other things above it in terms of importance as well (Step 1 scores and clinical grades, for example).

There is nothing wrong with aiming for top 30. Just realize that 1) US News and World reports is notoriously unreliable for getting a measure of "good" a medical school is. Obviously the top 10 will be the top 10, but further down the list (say, 30) it is not that reliable. And also 2) don't worry so much about ranking. My PI (an amazing researcher at a t5 institution) always says to me "You know what they call the person who graduates bottom of their class from the worst medical school in the US? Doctor." So, aim high, but don't get too stressed about it. No matter where you go, you can open the doors you want with hard work and dedication.

 

[LizzyM]

Keep in mind that schools are mission-driven. The mission of some schools is to produce primary care providers, often for the people of a given geographic region. Their match list is a success if most of the grads match in primary care specialties and, in part, that match list can be the result of mission-driven admission decisions and medical school mentoring.

Many of the top schools have a mission directed at creating the next generation of physician scientists and medical educators (med school faculty members). If that's where you see yourself, in academia, and you have grades and scores, research, and service experiences that put you in the top 5% of applicants, then you might be a good fit with those schools.

Rather than looking at the match lists of the schools, look at the residents within a graduate medical program. I just picked one at random -- ortho at Penn -- and I see grads from top schools but also from Drexel, UConn, Loyola, St. Louis, Georgetown, SUNY Stony Brook, Central Florida, etc...

Do it right, do it once. Plan on two years of research and apply at the start of 2nd year. Go in with a MCAT of 130 or higher in 3 of the 4 sections and a GPA of at least 3.70. Continue (or start) some long-term service to the downtrodden (just a couple hours per week for a year would be a minimum) as well as some clinical experience that includes seeing what physicians do. Make a point of shadowing for an entire work day an academic physician, a specialist provider (non-academic) and a primary care doc so you can see what it is all about. You may surprise yourself.

 

[libertyyne]

Just to answer some of the questions for clarifications. For a long time, I thought "prestige" mattered for med school. Then, I realized that graduates from any med school come out with almost the exact same knowledge and experiences. However, after looking at the match lists and average step 1 and 2 scores, it seems like a majority of the schools in the top 30 area (no hard dividing line) have higher proportions of students going into specialty residencies and especially the more competitive residencies (derm, Neuro, ortho,etc.). To clarify, I'm not fixated on going into a specialty and it's not that I find the top 30 "appealing," I just don't want to potentially be limiting my potential by going to a lower ranked school, when going to a higher ranked would allow me to keep my options more open. Does this make sense?

1. I would like to see this data where top 30 usnews matches more into specialties compared to top 50 or top 70 for that matter.
2. Correlation is not causation, students that end up attending these schools tend to be strong academically it is not surprising they perform well in medical school either. This does not mean going to the 31st school in the list will be the death of your derm chances.
3. Home programs matter a lot , Schools with home programs for the specialty you are looking for matter a bunch because they will be able to guide you through the process and help you with the pre-requisite hobnobbing/ research etc. RFU has plenty of derm matches so does Wayne state.
4. If you can attend a top 20 or top 10 and that is important for you, go for it. But realize that things are not as simple or clear cut as you would think. With a poor residency application regardless of where you go to school may result in less then optimal results for placement. There are people from top 20 schools that go into path or primary care or leave medicine altogether for some other venture.

 

[BigRedBeta]

Don't read too much into match lists - way too many variables to really determine if one school is "better" than another.

Your question to yourself should be: do I want to be a doctor or a graduate of XYZ medical school? I imagine it's to be a doctor, full stop. If you can say with 100% conviction that if you don't get into a "top 30" school it's better to be some other profession, than I guess only apply top 30 - it's your life. But for the more likely scenario that you'd rather be a doctor than any other profession, the best advice will always be to apply to all the schools in your home state and then a mix of schools for which your stats make sense. If that's the top 30 schools then great, if it's not, then focus on the end goal.