Applying for DO & MD Residency Simultaneously?

[droogdoc]

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I have read here on SDN people saying that if you are a DO you can apply to MD residencies but if you dont match you "have to scramble to apply to DO residencies as they are earlier".????

Am I missing something, or don't DO & MD residencies use the same application service for residencies? Why would have to do anything different? Can't you apply to the programs simultaneously?

 

[supergumbo]

You apply for DO residencies about a month before the allo residencies. Some students go for the MD residencies without applying for the DO ones. The reason being is that if you get accepted to a DO residency spot, you are binded to it and are unable to apply for the allo residencies that come up. Now if someone strictly apply for the allo residencies and cannot match, then they would scramble for any open DO spots.

 

[droogdoc]

Thanks for the info.

 

[ducki303]

is it true that the AOA are considering changing their matching dates to match that of the MD residency to offer their students more opportunities?

 

[NonTradDO]

You are allowed to apply for DO residencies before MD but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the DO match occurs before the MD match. You can apply to both, interview, and all ... but once the DO match occurs, and you match, you are in a legal contract to attend that DO residency and you are kicked out of the MD match that would occur several weeks later.

If you do not match DO, can either scramble into a DO residency and then if you match, you are again bound by contract and kicked out of MD match.

If you do not match DO, you can wait to see the outcome of the MD match. If you don't match MD either - then you can scramble for both DO and MD residencies.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

That sounds tough...I had wondered about this as well

Is there a way to tell if you are likely to get in places, or is it pretty much like medical school? I'd like to know more about how the process works 🙂

It would suck to forgo the DO match, and not match in to any MD residency.

 

[ShyRem]

There is no way to tell until match day. Many folks have relied on assurances they are an excellent candidate and the veiled "we'll match you very highly" phrases and then not matched.

Match rules are a bit different. There are very strict guidelines about what you can ask and say regarding ranking. A program is not allowed to ask the candidate where they will rank them. A program is not allowed to offer spaces outside the match if the candidate is entered into the match. You apply, interview, and wait until match day with everyone else. See the match forums and match sites for more information regarding the rules.

But y'all are getting way ahead of yourselves. There is talk every year of changing some of the way the match works, joining the two matches, etc. If I were you, I'd wait and see how things are shaking out in your first three years before you think about this one. Also, with the talk of having USMLE only go to two steps, some residency application stuff is ripe for change. Try getting into med school first, see how you do, what you want to get into, and then think about match.

 

[Thomas Hearns]

You know us pre-meds have to worry about every single thing 🙂


Thanks for the helpful post!

 

[ShyRem]

Well, if you have to worry, just consider the military match is waaaaay earlier, urology is separate, the san francisco match is also different.... And there's the whole AOA and ACGME match thing. Or you can try international, but most international folk come here. But then, you could also do a research year between fourth year and match, thus delaying the whole thing by a year. Or you might decide to do an MPH while doing your DO and extend a year. You may decide your CV sucks and want to find research so you can publish or present, perhaps even take time to hold a national board position. Or you may find yourself like so many other pre-meds and fail a course or two and thus not have time to even consider step 1, nevermind match...........

😛 Relax. It'll all work out. But asking now about rules that may very well change doesn't do much good. 😎

 

[jkmph]

😛 Relax. It'll all work out. But asking now about rules that may very well change doesn't do much good. 😎

That's highly debatable.

 

[ShyRem]

Sorry to hear you don't think much of your chances, jkmph. Perhaps then you should focus on your problems now rather than ones that you hope may face you in three or four years. Good luck to you.

 

[bth7]

I have read here on SDN people saying that if you are a DO you can apply to MD residencies but if you dont match you "have to scramble to apply to DO residencies as they are earlier".????

Am I missing something, or don't DO & MD residencies use the same application service for residencies? Why would have to do anything different? Can't you apply to the programs simultaneously?

You're question is totally legit, but . . . it doesn't have one answer, like ShyRem said. There's a lot of particularities to the match process, urology is separate, military is separate, San Francisco match process.

DO's apply to both MD and DO match all the time. It's not a problem. It works out fine.

What way, way more concerning is WHY ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THIS NOW?

You should focus on picking the bet med school, and of you are going osteopathic, you have your work cut out for you.

You need to focus on 3rd and 4th year rotations. There's a HUGE variability in how DO schools handle this. Some schools are great. Others there are serious problems.

When you ask about 3rd year rotations, every school will give you a list of hospitals. They will say "its not a problem, we have the rotations."

BE SKEPTICAL. Ask the tough questions:

How many students are taken at each of these hospitals? (They'll often throw in the name of a respectable hospital to distract you, but not tell you that only one student/year rotates there.)

How many students will be assigned to a particular rotation? (30 students assigned to the same surgery rotation means you won't get to scrub in on cases.)

Is it a teaching hospital with supervision for students to assist with procedures? (if its not you'll never put in an IV, never assist with a central line placement, never do an ABG, never learn to suture a laceration. You'll stand there, watching, for two years b/c students aren't covered by hospital insurance policy.)

How many times will you have to move 3rd and 4th years? (If you have to move every 3 months from upstate to downstate to Michigan to get all your required rotations in, you'll be so displaced it will be nearly impossible to focus on learning.)

Will my rotations be inpatient? (An OG/GYN "rotation" at an outpatient clinic means you'll never see a delivery, let alone assist with one. A Medicine rotation at an outpatient clinic means you'll never do an admission, never work-up a patient for MI or Stroke or Afib or GI bleed, or anything else.)

Does the hospital count DOs and Carribean students together? Hospitals/DO schools have started to do this sneaky thing to pack students on rotations. The have quotas on the number of med students they can have on a rotation, but they count DO students separately from MD students (Caribbean) allowing them to take twice as many students.

Is there an organized didactic program at the hospital in which med students can participate? Students sent to hospitals without residency programs in that department. No residency program means no lectures, no teaching rounds, no attendings willing to round on their patients with students. No interns/residents there to help students along.

Does the school compensate attendings to teach? No $$ = no teaching. Attendings are busy people. If you don't pay them to take the time out of their day to teach, they have no incentive to teach.

What rotations are required? What is available? No required neurology rotation means they had such a hard time finding neurology rotations for students that they couldn't require students do one. No neurosurg rotation available means no chance to see neurosurg. No child psych rotation means you won't be seeing child psych.

Which professors from years 1&2 will be continuing to teach students years 3&4? No continuity in teaching means a massive disconnect in your education.

Investigate your field of interest. If you have an interest in peds, ask to speak to someone in the pediatrics department about the rotation. Ask them what the rotation is like for med students. If you can't talk to anyone at all for even a few minutes, this is a red flag.

Ask the tough questions. Don't be fooled by vague promises and a "list of hospitals."

Don't rely solely on admissions personnel. Talk to 4th year students who can tell you their experience with trying to arrange their rotations. Find out what its really like.​

bth

 

[jkmph]

Sorry to hear you don't think much of your chances, jkmph. Perhaps then you should focus on your problems now rather than ones that you hope may face you in three or four years. Good luck to you.

Shyrem you are an asset to SDN and the DO forums.

However I made no reference to my 'chances' for anything. That's an absurd interpolation of my previous post and a completely unnecessary knee-jerk reply. My chances are quite strong especially at UNECOM. I happen to have an "in".

My previous post referenced asking about the match considering the likelihood or probability of it changing in the next 4 years. If it changes it will in fact be different. That does not invalidate a prospective students inquiry into how the match works now. It's not only valid but intelligent to understand comprehensively all components of a medical education and the steps involved post-graduation.

By your logic, why would anyone study the history of anything? The world has changed since dramatically so the "past" is irrelevant to the future? I don't think so.

Good question droogdoc.

 

[Laryngophed]

Shyrem you are an asset to SDN and the DO forums.

However I made no reference to my 'chances' for anything. That's an absurd interpolation of my previous post and a completely unnecessary knee-jerk reply.

I can see what you were referring to you in your post, but if you re-read it you'll note that it's easy to interpret it as ShyRem did. Don't be so defensive, it only makes you come across as insecure. I'd also doubt that bragging about an "in" serves any purpose than ego stroking. Calm down and breathe, it's just teh intrawebz.

 

[bth7]

Shyrem you are an asset to SDN and the DO forums.

However I made no reference to my 'chances' for anything. That's an absurd interpolation of my previous post and a completely unnecessary knee-jerk reply. My chances are quite strong especially at UNECOM. I happen to have an "in".

My previous post referenced asking about the match considering the likelihood or probability of it changing in the next 4 years. If it changes it will in fact be different. That does not invalidate a prospective students inquiry into how the match works now. It's not only valid but intelligent to understand comprehensively all components of a medical education and the steps involved post-graduation.

By your logic, why would anyone study the history of anything? The world has changed since dramatically so the "past" is irrelevant to the future? I don't think so.

Good question droogdoc.

#1 Don't be coming round here and messing with no ShyRem. She's the bomb, yo.

#2 You are correct that you investigation is valid and thoughtful. However, the way you are presenting your questions seems overly-focused on details, without an understand of the significance of those details. The match is a very dynamic, subjective, specialty-variable topic.

You original question has a simple answer: DOs can and do (in large numbers) apply to both ACGME and AOA programs. They eventually have to chose between the two programs, and this process has some unusual bumps.

But those bumps get resolved different for each person. Some people pre-Match into a allopatic program (which DOs can do, but MDs cannot.)

Some people realize the program of their dreams is a DO program.

Some people aren't happy with any of their DO program interviews, so they don't rank them and just wait for the MD match.

Some people are happy with their DO choice, but hold off on ranking them, hoping they might get something they want more in the MD match. If they don't get their MD pick, they call up the DO program and ask for a spot. DO programs sort of expect this, and if they already know you, and you told them your situation, they will scramble you in.

Some of these things are very common in some specialties, and very rare in others, for very unrelated reasons to a specific to that specialty.

And sometimes, something totally different happens.

But the overall results are thus:

From Osteopathic Medicine in the United Sates

I highly recommend read the article, especially the last section,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic_medicine_in_the_United_States#Criticism_and_internal_debate


bth