Applying for intern jobs soon -- retail or hospital?

[PAtoPharm]

I'm currently in the process of applying for my intern license here in my state and will be applying to work as a student intern as well. The question I'm trying to answer is, should I apply to work as an intern in retail or hospital pharmacies?

In the retail world, I understand that pharmacists hate working for CVS and Walgreens, so I will not apply to work for them. Here in the southeast, I have heard good things about Walmart (eh, more mixed than all-around "good"), Kroger, Costco, and Publix. In my area, the only two chains of those aforementioned that have locations here are Walmart and Publix. So, if I decide to intern in a retail pharmacy, I guess I'll be applying to work for either Walmart or Publix. Between those two, do you guys have any suggestions as to which one is best to work for, if my eventual goal is to start a pharmacist career with them upon graduation? I've heard that Walmart tends to be the most lucrative (especially with their bonus structure) and offers the most vacation, but I've heard that Publix is generally a more pleasant company to work for, although it doesn't pay nearly as well as Walmart. Then again, I've heard from others that even Publix is becoming an unpleasant place to work as a pharmacist, so it's up in the air right now.

Regarding the possibility of interning in a hospital pharmacy -- this is more of a dilemma. To briefly explain: there are 2 hospital networks in my town. One of them has a job ad posted online for a pharmacy intern (it has been posted for several months, actually). The hospital that posted the intern job ad does NOT have a residency program. However, the other hospital network DOES have a pharmacy residency program that graduates 10-12 people/year. In addition, I have been told that both hospital networks require pharmacist hires to have either completed a residency or to have prior experience working as a hospital pharmacist.

Obviously, if I end up working as a hospital pharmacy intern, I'd do it with the goal of becoming a pharmacist at the hospital I'd be working for (just as I'd hope to get a job with the retail company I intern for if I choose the retail route). But my concern is, if the hospital requires completion of a residency for someone to get hired as a new pharmacist, would I just be wasting the next few years of pharmacy school working as an intern for the hospital? In other words, would I simply graduate from pharmacy school and not be offered a job by the hospital, despite the fact that I had interned for them?

If that's the case, then it obviously is a waste of time to apply for the hospital intern job (I'm not planning on completing a residency, so I would be stuck applying for retail jobs upon graduation despite not having interned for any retail chains). Also, I'm concerned that the hospital's intern job listing has been posted for at least several months. Could it be that they've been hiring a handful (e.g., 8-10+) interns, which means that my chances of getting hired after graduation would be next to impossible, even if they did follow the practice of hiring their interns into pharmacist positions?

Thanks...

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[PharmDBro2017]

Cliffs bro

Kidding but srsly. Just start working in the environment you want to pursue later when you graduate. On the flip side, get part time at BOTH retail and hospital so you can see it first hand and decide for yourself (not based on what others have told you). That would be best iml.

I have found the smaller hospitals (no residency program established) to be better for interns than the large ones. Pay is better and you aren't just a number/slave labor (at least in my experience it was this way).

 

[njac]

Interning at a hospital will likely open more doors than interning in retail. And if you don't like it, you can always quit and get a retail intern position.


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[gwarm01]

No one can give you definitive answers about the hiring practices of these hospitals. I would apply to every internship I could because you aren't guaranteed to get any of them. If you get multiple offers (ie hospital and retail), take the one that is more aligned with your goals. The experience is valuable even if you don't continue working for that particular organization.

Side note, 12 pharmacy graduates a year seems like a lot. Is this a large healthcare system? There most likely won't be jobs for the majority of them. Competition will be brutal.

How set are you on living in this city? The reality is that you can stay put and accept whatever scraps happen to be available, or you can move to where the work is. You can still get a hospital job with just intern experience if you are willing to search for it. Hell, you may even be able to get that job at one of your local hospitals regardless of what you may have heard. Pharmacy is full of self-proclaimed geniuses who seem to think their way is the only way. It's actually kind of funny. My first job out of school was at a peds hospital. I started the same day and with the same job title as a pharmacist with a PGY2 in peds. We both worked evenings, both floated through the same shifts. They probably got offered a slightly hired rate, sure. They also got rotated into clinical shifts earlier than I did, sure. At the end of the day, I was able to do it.

 

[Sine Cura]

In regard to retail, I'm not sure you have the luxury of avoiding CVS or Wags. There aren't as many Walmarts compared to CVS or Walgreens. There isn't the kind of mass turnover you see at CVS, so it seems Walmart doesn't hire many interns (right now there is exactly one intern across 12 stores in my market).

However, if you have a pharmacist complain about not liking to work for Walmart as pharmacist, you should ask them compared to what? Controlling for script volume and trashiness of your clientele, Walmart is easier than CVS (more tech hours to account for inefficient workflow, lunch, better bonus).

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

You can also try to get out of Georgia. For some reason, Georgia seems to have the lowest paid pharmacists in the nation.

I live in the BFE/"Trump Country"/Guns-and-God red state where interns have been able to get direct-hire positions as hospital pharmacists. There was even an upperclassmen this year who got a job as a hospital pharmacist in southern Oregon (which might as well be BFE to the Californians on these forums).

Here's how I would go about in your situation:
1) Get a intern position ASAP. It's always hard to get your first job; take any that will come your way.
2) Then, research which hospitals hire pharmacists without residency (instate and out-of-state) or which stores have the highest likelihood of hiring interns.
3) Network through work, school, and classmates. If a desirable intern position opens up, apply for it.
4) At IPPEs and APPEs, do rotations at sites you want to get hired at (and make sure you leave a very good impression on them)
5) During 4th year, apply for jobs like crazy and also apply for residency as a backup

 

[PAtoPharm]

Cliffs bro

Kidding but srsly. Just start working in the environment you want to pursue later when you graduate. On the flip side, get part time at BOTH retail and hospital so you can see it first hand and decide for yourself (not based on what others have told you). That would be best iml.

I have found the smaller hospitals (no residency program established) to be better for interns than the large ones. Pay is better and you aren't just a number/slave labor (at least in my experience it was this way).

LOL, sorry, I tried to keep the message short but I wanted to explain the potential dilemma regarding the hospital intern situation. At this point, I'm not 100% sure what kind of pharmacy environment I want to work in when I graduate. On the one hand, retail pharmacists in my area make significantly more than hospital pharmacists to start ($85k vs. $120-$130k), but I may want to pursue MSL opportunities at some point, and I noticed that most MSL jobs require completion of either a fellowship or 1-2 years of hospital pharmacy experience.

No one can give you definitive answers about the hiring practices of these hospitals. I would apply to every internship I could because you aren't guaranteed to get any of them. If you get multiple offers (ie hospital and retail), take the one that is more aligned with your goals. The experience is valuable even if you don't continue working for that particular organization.

Side note, 12 pharmacy graduates a year seems like a lot. Is this a large healthcare system? There most likely won't be jobs for the majority of them. Competition will be brutal.

How set are you on living in this city? The reality is that you can stay put and accept whatever scraps happen to be available, or you can move to where the work is. You can still get a hospital job with just intern experience if you are willing to search for it. Hell, you may even be able to get that job at one of your local hospitals regardless of what you may have heard. Pharmacy is full of self-proclaimed geniuses who seem to think their way is the only way. It's actually kind of funny. My first job out of school was at a peds hospital. I started the same day and with the same job title as a pharmacist with a PGY2 in peds. We both worked evenings, both floated through the same shifts. They probably got offered a slightly hired rate, sure. They also got rotated into clinical shifts earlier than I did, sure. At the end of the day, I was able to do it.

As I said above, I'm not 100% sure as to what my goals are; on the one hand, I want to earn a lot more money by working in retail, but at the same time, I might be interested in pursuing a job in the future that requires hospital experience (e.g., MSL, but these jobs might be next-to-impossible to get without completing a fellowship anyways). Yes, twelve residency program graduates per year is a lot; in fact, another member of the forums here who is from GA and is familiar with the residency program in my area said that for the last several years, hardly any of the residency program's graduates have actually been hired to work as pharmacists upon graduation from the program. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that the hospital that has the residency program really does hire only residency-trained graduates (if/when they ever actually hire pharmacists). One of my neighbors has been the DOP at that hospital since the 1980s, and she basically told me the same thing herself. She also made it pretty clear that she can't do me any favors just because she's known me and my family for years (she pointed out that students at the other pharmacy schools in GA are already volunteering and involving themselves with other ECs in order to be competitive). I would rather not post my location here, but if you are interested in reading about the residency program, PM me and I will send you a link to a site with info on it.

However, I don't know anything about the hiring practices of the other hospital (the one with the intern job listing), except that they also have a few pharmacist positions posted, and the descriptions for those positions state that either hospital pharmacy experience or residency completion is required.

To answer your other question, I really would like to continue living in my city. I know for a fact that I don't want to live in some BFE town (e.g., think Waycross, GA, Moultrie, GA, or any of the small AL towns like Brewton, Andalusia, etc. -- no way). I'm leaning towards applying for the intern position that was posted by the local hospital that doesn't have a residency program, but I guess my main concern is that I don't want to waste my time with working as an intern at the hospital if there's hardly any chance of being offered an actual pharmacist job upon graduation because they'd rather hire one of the 10-12 residency graduates from the other hospital's residency program.

In regard to retail, I'm not sure you have the luxury of avoiding CVS or Wags. There aren't as many Walmarts compared to CVS or Walgreens. There isn't the kind of mass turnover you see at CVS, so it seems Walmart doesn't hire many interns (right now there is exactly one intern across 12 stores in my market).

However, if you have a pharmacist complain about not liking to work for Walmart as pharmacist, you should ask them compared to what? Controlling for script volume and trashiness of your clientele, Walmart is easier than CVS (more tech hours to account for inefficient workflow, lunch, better bonus).

LOL, good points. I don't know what it is about working at Walmart that is "hard" to the pharmacist who said that, but I'll try to find out.

You can also try to get out of Georgia. For some reason, Georgia seems to have the lowest paid pharmacists in the nation.

I live in the BFE/"Trump Country"/Guns-and-God red state where interns have been able to get direct-hire positions as hospital pharmacists. There was even an upperclassmen this year who got a job as a hospital pharmacist in southern Oregon (which might as well be BFE to the Californians on these forums).

Here's how I would go about in your situation:
1) Get a intern position ASAP. It's always hard to get your first job; take any that will come your way.
2) Then, research which hospitals hire pharmacists without residency (instate and out-of-state) or which stores have the highest likelihood of hiring interns.
3) Network through work, school, and classmates. If a desirable intern position opens up, apply for it.
4) At IPPEs and APPEs, do rotations at sites you want to get hired at (and make sure you leave a very good impression on them)
5) During 4th year, apply for jobs like crazy and also apply for residency as a backup

Thanks for the advice. I would honestly rather keep living where I'm at for now. I'm trying to find out more specifics on whether or not the hospital that posted the intern would be willing to hire one of their interns upon graduation from pharmacy school, but they do have several positions posted right now for pharmacists, and all of them specify that applicants must either be residency program graduates or have at least 1-2 years of hospital pharmacy work experience. Like I said to gwarm01 above, i just want to make sure I won't be wasting my time working as an intern for a hospital that has no intention of hiring me upon graduation.

 

[JMUDuke]

As a student, take this with a grain of salt. Work experience in any hospital should make you fairly competitive for residencies. You can always try to do rotations at your preferred institution if you don't get hired on there-- or any other program that has a residency that interests you for that matter. But like others have said, just get an internship and go from there. I started in retail, got a hospital internship, and then did both for awhile. I definitely have a preference, but the variability is pretty nice. I'll also note that working retail was more flexible, but the pay was no where close to the hospital.

But I'll mirror what gwarm said earlier. I did an IPPE rotation at a large academic hospital that routinely says they only hire residency trained pharmacists. Turns out they hired a new grad during the couple weeks I was there. YMMV, but things aren't always how they are portrayed. Good Luck.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

Do Both.

 

[PAtoPharm]

As a student, take this with a grain of salt. Work experience in any hospital should make you fairly competitive for residencies. You can always try to do rotations at your preferred institution if you don't get hired on there-- or any other program that has a residency that interests you for that matter. But like others have said, just get an internship and go from there. I started in retail, got a hospital internship, and then did both for awhile. I definitely have a preference, but the variability is pretty nice. I'll also note that working retail was more flexible, but the pay was no where close to the hospital.

But I'll mirror what gwarm said earlier. I did an IPPE rotation at a large academic hospital that routinely says they only hire residency trained pharmacists. Turns out they hired a new grad during the couple weeks I was there. YMMV, but things aren't always how they are portrayed. Good Luck.

Thanks for the advice. This might not make sense at first, but I'm not actually planning on applying to residencies; I'm simply leaving the option of working as a hospital pharmacist on the table for the future. In other words, I may want to work as a hospital pharmacist (although I've been leaning towards retail because of the significantly higher pay in my area), but I'm not sure. However, I don't care about becoming a "clinical" pharmacist, and I have zero interest in doing a residency. Basically, I just want to finish pharmacy school and start working as a pharmacist, possibly in either a hospital or retail setting. If I knew for a fact that working at the hospital as an intern could NOT possibly lead to an offer of employment as a matter of corporate policy (I.e., they do have a strict policy on hiring only residency-trained pharmacists), I most likely wouldn't even bother with applying for the intern position and would probably focus on interning in a retail pharmacy.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Do Both.

That's a possibility, but my school schedule might not allow for it (the feasibility of working two intern jobs would also depend on how many days/hours per week each employer would expect me to work). If both the hospital and a retail pharmacy would be okay with me working one day per week, that would probably work.

 

[bacillus1]

I would pick hospital, however also look at how many hours the hospital will require you to work. I refused to apply to one hospital because it was widely known that they worked their interns for many hours, including around finals week, and when others didn't hire me I ended up working retail (Rite Aid). It wasn't such a bad thing and the schedule allowed me to pursue interesting summer opportunities that weren't purely "pharmacy" ones, and I still got matched to a residency program and am now in a "clinical position.

Edit: just read your post about not doing a residency. If you are OK with working at either, just do a retail internship. More likelihood that you'll get hired. A hospital may certainly hire you if you work there, without a residency, but it's less likely.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I would pick hospital, however also look at how many hours the hospital will require you to work. I refused to apply to one hospital because it was widely known that they worked their interns for many hours, including around finals week, and when others didn't hire me I ended up working retail (Rite Aid). It wasn't such a bad thing and the schedule allowed me to pursue interesting summer opportunities that weren't purely "pharmacy" ones, and I still got matched to a residency program and am now in a "clinical position.

Edit: just read your post about not doing a residency. If you are OK with working at either, just do a retail internship. More likelihood that you'll get hired. A hospital may certainly hire you if you work there, without a residency, but it's less likely.

On your first point -- do you know if there's an easy way to find out how many hours the hospital would probably expect me to work per week/month as an intern, if I don't already know any interns? I didn't know if it would count as "burning a bridge" if I decide to apply for the intern job, get hired, and then tell them I can't do it because they want me to work too many hours or come in too frequently.

About the part I bolded, that's the main thing I'm worried about; it would essentially be a waste of time to work there as an intern if they'd knowingly have no plans to hire me to work as a pharmacist there afterwards. Also, here's what's ironic about the situation: the hospital that is looking to hire an intern(s) doesn't have a residency program, but the other local hospital network that they compete against does. So if I work there as an intern but they make it clear to me that the only way I'll end up working there as a pharmacist in the future is if I complete a residency, then I'd have to attend a different hospital's residency program (such as the one at the competitor hospital). And yet, even if I wanted to do a residency, would working as an intern at Hospital A make me competitive for the residency program at Hospital B, considering that both hospitals are competitors? Even if I did have an interest in doing a residency, wouldn't it therefore make sense to intern at Hospital B (I.e., the hospital with the residency program)? Does intern experience at one hospital actually "count" for experience at a totally different hospital?

BTW, I did an IPPE day at a local Publix store in November (hopefully too much time hasn't passed), and the pharmacy manager basically said she'd hire me to work as an intern if I wanted a job there. She didn't mention anything about hours, but I've heard so many good things about Publix that I'm tempted to say "forget it" to the hospital and just go with Publix. Maybe it would be a good test of whether or not I have the capacity to handle retail. Then again, I've never seen an intern position posted before on the hospital's website, so it might be foolish to pass on that...

 

[bacillus1]

On your first point -- do you know if there's an easy way to find out how many hours the hospital would probably expect me to work per week/month as an intern, if I don't already know any interns? I didn't know if it would count as "burning a bridge" if I decide to apply for the intern job, get hired, and then tell them I can't do it because they want me to work too many hours or come in too frequently.

About the part I bolded, that's the main thing I'm worried about; it would essentially be a waste of time to work there as an intern if they'd knowingly have no plans to hire me to work as a pharmacist there afterwards. Also, here's what's ironic about the situation: the hospital that is looking to hire an intern(s) doesn't have a residency program, but the other local hospital network that they compete against does. So if I work there as an intern but they make it clear to me that the only way I'll end up working there as a pharmacist in the future is if I complete a residency, then I'd have to attend a different hospital's residency program (such as the one at the competitor hospital). And yet, even if I wanted to do a residency, would working as an intern at Hospital A make me competitive for the residency program at Hospital B, considering that both hospitals are competitors? Even if I did have an interest in doing a residency, wouldn't it therefore make sense to intern at Hospital B (I.e., the hospital with the residency program)? Does intern experience at one hospital actually "count" for experience at a totally different hospital?

BTW, I did an IPPE day at a local Publix store in November (hopefully too much time hasn't passed), and the pharmacy manager basically said she'd hire me to work as an intern if I wanted a job there. She didn't mention anything about hours, but I've heard so many good things about Publix that I'm tempted to say "forget it" to the hospital and just go with Publix. Maybe it would be a good test of whether or not I have the capacity to handle retail. Then again, I've never seen an intern position posted before on the hospital's website, so it might be foolish to pass on that...

I have only seen pharmacists hired to hospital positions without residency if they have experience in THAT hospital, granted that I have always lived in very saturated areas and this might not be true in less saturated areas. For the hospital without residency, just really depends on the applicant pool and responsibilities of those pharmacists. Many hospitals with a hybrid staffing model want only residency trained pharmacists, as being an intern doesn't really prepare you for rounding, med rec, etc... Internship at a hospital prepares you for a different skill set from a residency, so do not consider these equal.

As far as hours, just ask at your interview, but figure out a way to do it nicely. I don't think it's necessarily a bad question. You can't really ask though if they will expect you to work around finals week. They might even bring it up themselves.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I have only seen pharmacists hired to hospital positions without residency if they have experience in THAT hospital, granted that I have always lived in very saturated areas and this might not be true in less saturated areas. For the hospital without residency, just really depends on the applicant pool and responsibilities of those pharmacists. Many hospitals with a hybrid staffing model want only residency trained pharmacists, as being an intern doesn't really prepare you for rounding, med rec, etc... Internship at a hospital prepares you for a different skill set from a residency, so do not consider these equal.

As far as hours, just ask at your interview, but figure out a way to do it nicely. I don't think it's necessarily a bad question. You can't really ask though if they will expect you to work around finals week. They might even bring it up themselves.

Just curious... maybe this is a dumb question, but why would a hospital specifically post an opening for a student intern if they don't intend on possibly hiring them as a pharmacist down the road? Why don't they just hire another tech? Are interns usually allowed to take on more tasks at the hospital than techs?

BTW, there is no way I could work during finals week. Besides having tests scheduled at specific times on every single day of that week, I absolutely have to stay up and study throughout every night of that week. There simply wouldn't be any time in my schedule to work unless I didn't study at all, and that would set me up for failure, especially since many of the finals in my classes are often heavily-weighted (e.g., 40-50% of the overall grade).

 

[PAtoPharm]

I'm confused why you're doing this when pharmacists make 85K and dental assistants make 100K with much less education?

You are thinking of dental hygienists, not assistants. I'm still considering making the jump, but I want to see what happens with the job market in that field first before I quit pharmacy school (I would have to wait until the spring/summer to apply now anyways).

 

[bacillus1]

Just curious... maybe this is a dumb question, but why would a hospital specifically post an opening for a student intern if they don't intend on possibly hiring them as a pharmacist down the road? Why don't they just hire another tech? Are interns usually allowed to take on more tasks at the hospital than techs?

BTW, there is no way I could work during finals week. Besides having tests scheduled at specific times on every single day of that week, I absolutely have to stay up and study throughout every night of that week. There simply wouldn't be any time in my schedule to work unless I didn't study at all, and that would set me up for failure, especially since many of the finals in my classes are often heavily-weighted (e.g., 40-50% of the overall grade).

Depends on the hospital. I know in some hospitals the students can do med rec and other more "clinical" duties. Our hospital has an internship (VALOR program) that is supposed to introduce students to the VA so maybe they do a VA residency in the future if they want. Even if a hospital does hire its interns, however, it often has more intern positions than pharmacist openings, so they can pick the best ones to hire.

 

[gwarm01]

Internships are no guarantee either. I was an intern for three years and very well liked, but at graduation their just weren't any openings. I left the state for a few years and it ended up being a good thing, so keep your options open.

 

[njac]

Just curious... maybe this is a dumb question, but why would a hospital specifically post an opening for a student intern if they don't intend on possibly hiring them as a pharmacist down the road? Why don't they just hire another tech? Are interns usually allowed to take on more tasks at the hospital than techs?

Interns are often cheaper than techs, don't get benefits, and you can push various projects on them.

Duties and responsibilities vary state by state.


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[PAtoPharm]

I guess what seems ridiculous to me is that the hospital is hiring interns, they probably aren't planning on hiring any of them because of the must-complete-residency requirement, and yet they don't even have a residency program, so it begs the question -- what is the point of getting the intern experience at this particular hospital in the first place (especially since the experience wouldn't carry any weight with any other hospitals or residency programs)? It seems like it would be a total waste of time since it looks like it would probably lead to absolutely nothing in the future.

Correct me if this is inaccurate or if I'm just being negative, but this is the sort of outcome I'm predicting: I apply for and get the intern job, I work for the hospital as an intern for the next 3.5 years, then I graduate and they either refuse to hire me because I haven't completed a residency or because they don't have any openings anyways. I'm not planning on doing a residency and did nothing as a pharmacy student to make myself competitive for one, so now I'm stuck applying to retail jobs at companies I have zero intern experience with. See the issue? Unless I'm just being overly negative here....

 

[gwarm01]

what is the point of getting the intern experience at this particular hospital in the first place (especially since the experience wouldn't carry any weight with any other hospitals or residency programs)?

Why do you think this? It's 3 years of working in a hospital, becoming familiar with IV admixture, utilizing automated dispensing machines, doing med deliveries etc. You'll understand how a hospital pharmacy operates which is valuable knowledge for a new grad.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Why do you think this? It's 3 years of working in a hospital, becoming familiar with IV admixture, utilizing automated dispensing machines, doing med deliveries etc. You'll understand how a hospital pharmacy operates which is valuable knowledge for a new grad.

Ok, so maybe the experience itself will be valuable in regards to learning how to do actual pharmacy work, but in terms of making professional progress towards securing a pharmacist job, it seems like a waste of time. Also, isn't one of the most commonly-given pieces of advice on here that students should work as interns so they can improve their chances of having a job at graduation? It seems like several threads are posted every year by recent graduates who can't find a job, and when someone asks them if they worked as an intern during school, the answer is always "no," and everyone points out how much of a mistake that was. So isn't working at a facility as an intern that has no intention of hiring you the same thing as basically not working at all, since you'd be passing up the opportunity to work as an intern at a place that is actually likely to offer you employment when you graduate (e.g., retail)?

 

[radio frequency]

Most people I know were not offered jobs by places they already worked at graduation. That actually seemed to be less common than the alternative of interning one place and getting a job elsewhere. The experience and connections and letters of reference are the valuable part of the job.

 

[ABCPharmD]

So isn't working at a facility as an intern that has no intention of hiring you the same thing as basically not working at all

No. It's not the same as not working at all. I'm not exactly sure how you're getting this. What gwarm01 said above is why working and getting experience is helpful. People are saying it's important to work during school so you understand how a pharmacy actually works. IPPEs and APPEs are nice and all but they're hardly like your job will be. You'll understand what I mean once you get an intern job or even a tech job. They just can't train you enough in a few weeks to get the nuances of how a pharmacy runs, which is where intern/tech experience comes in. There's a person in my class that interned at a VA and was hired at an academic medical center as an oncology pharmacist as a new grad. I interned at Walgreens and was offered a job at a hospital as a new grad (didn't take it but I still got the offer). There are also intangibles that you'll get depending on the setting where you intern. I interned at a 4000+ rx/wk store and just being in that busy of an environment taught me a lot about efficiency.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Most people I know were not offered jobs by places they already worked at graduation. That actually seemed to be less common than the alternative of interning one place and getting a job elsewhere. The experience and connections and letters of reference are the valuable part of the job.

No. It's not the same as not working at all. I'm not exactly sure how you're getting this. What gwarm01 said above is why working and getting experience is helpful. People are saying it's important to work during school so you understand how a pharmacy actually works. IPPEs and APPEs are nice and all but they're hardly like your job will be. You'll understand what I mean once you get an intern job or even a tech job. They just can't train you enough in a few weeks to get the nuances of how a pharmacy runs, which is where intern/tech experience comes in. There's a person in my class that interned at a VA and was hired at an academic medical center as an oncology pharmacist as a new grad. I interned at Walgreens and was offered a job at a hospital as a new grad (didn't take it but I still got the offer). There are also intangibles that you'll get depending on the setting where you intern. I interned at a 4000+ rx/wk store and just being in that busy of an environment taught me a lot about efficiency.

After reading threads on here for the past year in which posters talked about the importance of working as an intern during school for a company/hospital you hope to work for after graduating and getting licensed, I was under the assumption that securing that first job as a pharmacist was the main reason to get an intern job. I guess I know that's not the case now.

 

[gwarm01]

After reading threads on here for the past year in which posters talked about the importance of working as an intern during school for a company/hospital you hope to work for after graduating and getting licensed, I was under the assumption that securing that first job as a pharmacist was the main reason to get an intern job. I guess I know that's not the case now.

It's not that you are securing a job, but rather you are making yourself an attractive candidate. You have relevant experience and that puts you ahead of other new grads. People in school always say to differentiate yourself and students think that means taking leadership roles in student organizations (myself included, secretary for SNPhA and SSNP), but holding down a job for three years while in school will make you way more attractive to employers than just about anything else.

 

[radio frequency]

It's not that you are securing a job, but rather you are making yourself an attractive candidate. You have relevant experience and that puts you ahead of other new grads. People in school always say to differentiate yourself and students think that means taking leadership roles in student organizations (myself included, secretary for SNPhA and SSNP), but holding down a job for three years while in school will make you way more attractive to employers than just about anything else.

This exactly. Work is important to help you get your first job, but not in the way you might think.

If I could do it over, I would skip all the in school leadership opportunities and instead work more and make myself more valuable where I worked and show leadership that way.

 

[Rxmember2016]

This exactly. Work is important to help you get your first job, but not in the way you might think.

If I could do it over, I would skip all the in school leadership opportunities and instead work more and make myself more valuable where I worked and show leadership that way.

Agree! While many students were spending their time in school organizations and boosting their popularity ratings, I was able to get 3 jobs during pharmacy school. Two of them are in hospitals. I did well on my hospital IPPE/APPEs. I fit right in. I had a job offer at my workplace, but declined because I wanted to go back to California.

 

[radio frequency]

Agree! While many students were spending their time in school organizations and boosting their popularity ratings, I was able to get 3 jobs during pharmacy school. Two of them are in hospitals. I did well on my hospital IPPE/APPEs. I fit right in. I had a job offer at my workplace, but declined because I wanted to go back to California.

Not to mention you got paid the whole time! Nice work.

 

[PAtoPharm]

It's not that you are securing a job, but rather you are making yourself an attractive candidate. You have relevant experience and that puts you ahead of other new grads. People in school always say to differentiate yourself and students think that means taking leadership roles in student organizations (myself included, secretary for SNPhA and SSNP), but holding down a job for three years while in school will make you way more attractive to employers than just about anything else.

I guess that I'm just somewhat discouraged by what I already know by simply having known the DOP at one of the local hospitals (the one that isn't looking for interns but does have a residency program) for so many years. I think I mentioned in an earlier post I made in this thread that this particular DOP told me that they simply wouldn't consider hiring a non-residency-trained new graduate pharmacist, simply because they're training and graduating 12 or so residents per year. So in that sense, the whole notion of "you never know what doors might be opened by working as an intern" doesn't really apply to my situation (at least if I insist on staying here locally), just because I know that one of the two employers of hospital pharmacists is totally shut-off as a future employment prospect unless I complete a residency. In fact, whenever I'm walking up the street and the DOP drives down the road towards me, she speeds up and avoids stopping to talk to me now because (based on the nuances I got from our last few conversations) she doesn't want me to start thinking that I'll have an "in" at her hospital, just because I've known her family for a long time.

In fact, do you remember when I posted a week or two ago about how a local DOP told me to consider quitting pharmacy school (because of the job market, relatively low salary compared to time/money spent in school, etc.) and advised me to look into the local nuclear medicine tech program or general PA school? It was the same DOP I've been talking about in this thread who gave me that "advice" recently.

BTW, I was looking at job listings for pharmacists to work at rural hospitals 1-2 hours away from where I live (I.e., towns that have <800 people), and even those job listings specify that applicants must have at least 1 year of hospital pharmacy experience to be considered for the jobs. I'm saying this because everyone here seems to suggest that a strategy for getting a hospital job without completing a residency first (or having prior hospital pharmacist experience) is to work for a year or two at a rural hospital, since they supposedly are desperate enough to hire new grads. However, even the rural hospitals are requiring prior experience/residency now, so I guess that's no longer a viable strategy (unless rural GA/AL is no longer "rural enough".

On the other hand, the anesthesia job market (which had been experiencing its own oversupply situation from ~2010-2015) seems to have rebounded. Look at what I could've been eligible to apply for in 6-8 months if I had pulled my head out of my @$$:

http://gaswork.com/search/Anesthesiologist-Assistants/Job/All

 

[quickpic007]

get one intern spot in hosp/retail and one tech spot in hosp/retail one part time one on-call do both. it is possible.
Or go to AA school!

 

[PAtoPharm]

get one intern spot in hosp/retail and one tech spot in hosp/retail one part time one on-call do both. it is possible.
Or go to AA school!

Yeah, on-call/PRN for both would be ideal, especially if both employers are flexible about allowing self-scheduling without a minimum hourly requirement on hours worked.

... And to your last part, I think you mean "go back to AA school," LOL. Probably the most promising alternative all-around.

 

[gwarm01]

Or go to AA school!

Dude. Too soon.

PA, you say there are two hospitals/systems in your city. I really believe that a new graduate will be able to get an entry-level hospital position by the time you are out, but you just might have to be flexible. I've said before that moving could be your best bet, but considering your reluctance... One, absolutely apply to any and every opening in your city. I don't care if the director themselves told you they don't hire new grads and then proceeded to avoid speaking with you as they drive by in your neighborhood, you still apply to that damn job. The truth is you just never know. You don't know how desperate they may be to fill a position, or if they have been unable to find their perfect candidate and can't keep waiting. They can put whatever they like as a requirement for a job posting, but that doesn't mean they can get it. My previous job kept saying they wanted PGY2 pediatric pharmacists, but guess what? We had all new grads/adult PGY1 people except for the single PGY2. Unless you are a prestigious institution (which most aren't, even though many seem to think they are. Just big fish in a little pond), you can't demand that type of qualification.

How far out have you considered looking for work? When I graduated I moved to sunny South Florida because my non-pharmacist wife had found a job there. I applied to 30+ openings. I only received three interviews but had three job offers afterwards. My strategy was to go to google maps, search for "hospital", then find every single hospital within a 2 mile radius. The job I took was an hour away, but it was worth it to get the experience. It's just a hump you have to get over before things are more favorable towards you. Worst case scenario, you could move to Meridian, MS for a year, get a 1-bedroom apartment, and get your hospital experience.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Dude. Too soon.

PA, you say there are two hospitals/systems in your city. I really believe that a new graduate will be able to get an entry-level hospital position by the time you are out, but you just might have to be flexible. I've said before that moving could be your best bet, but considering your reluctance... One, absolutely apply to any and every opening in your city. I don't care if the director themselves told you they don't hire new grads and then proceeded to avoid speaking with you as they drive by in your neighborhood, you still apply to that damn job. The truth is you just never know. You don't know how desperate they may be to fill a position, or if they have been unable to find their perfect candidate and can't keep waiting. They can put whatever they like as a requirement for a job posting, but that doesn't mean they can get it. My previous job kept saying they wanted PGY2 pediatric pharmacists, but guess what? We had all new grads/adult PGY1 people except for the single PGY2. Unless you are a prestigious institution (which most aren't, even though many seem to think they are. Just big fish in a little pond), you can't demand that type of qualification.

How far out have you considered looking for work? When I graduated I moved to sunny South Florida because my non-pharmacist wife had found a job there. I applied to 30+ openings. I only received three interviews but had three job offers afterwards. My strategy was to go to google maps, search for "hospital", then find every single hospital within a 2 mile radius. The job I took was an hour away, but it was worth it to get the experience. It's just a hump you have to get over before things are more favorable towards you. Worst case scenario, you could move to Meridian, MS for a year, get a 1-bedroom apartment, and get your hospital experience.

On the topic of me being reluctant to move, I don't think I said this before, but one reason I want to stay here is because my family will let me live with them for basically as long as I want, rent-free. So it would make it much easier to pay off my student loans more quickly if I can stay where I am and keep living at home.

Also, I guess I'm just surprised that even my area is considered "too urban" to expect to be able to find a hospital pharmacist job (or apparently any pharmacist job) after graduation. For most other healthcare fields (PA, MD/DO, dentistry, NP, CRNA) my city is the equivalent of the Meridian, MS town new grads might have to live in for a year while they get the experience that qualifies them for jobs in nicer areas like ATL. I always thought it was the same situation with pharmacy. If you Google "worst places to live" and read the "top 10" lists that are returned in the search results, my city is listed on almost every one of them... and yet, I guess the pharmacist job market truly has gotten bad enough that even my crappy hometown is saturated now.

Also, I looked at a few pharmacist job listings in another rural GA town with a population of 400. Even those job listings require residency or experience! So it begs the question, just how "rural" does an area have to be in order to be considered "rural enough" for pharmacy?

 

[gwarm01]

Also, I looked at a few pharmacist job listings in another rural GA town with a population of 400. Even those job listings require residency or experience! So it begs the question, just how "rural" does an area have to be in order to be considered "rural enough" for pharmacy?

I don't know exactly where you are looking, but I searched on Indeed and found several hospitals in Georgia that could potentially hire you. Keep in mind that three years of intern experience, while not equivalent to being a full-time pharmacist, will definitely make you stand out. If it says hospital experience required, okay, you have hospital experience. If it specifically says pharmacist experience then you have to get creative.

https://hca.taleo.net/careersection/0hca/jobdetail.ftl?job=2105542&src=JB-11444 - 1 yr hospital experience preferred, meaning they will take a new grad. Put down "3 years" experience and list your internship.
https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWEbHo...=600204&PartnerId=25066&SiteId=5039&codes=IND - experience and residency preferred but not required
https://hca.taleo.net/careersection/0hca/jobdetail.ftl?job=2109141&src=JB-11444 - 1 yr preferred
https://careers.peopleclick.com/car...ource=Indeed.com&sourceType=PREMIUM_POST_SITE - 1 yr preferred
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Archbold-Medical-Center/jobs/Pharmacist-29ef5da5bd27695f?q=pharmacist - 1 yr preferred

I could go on and on. Just realize that "preferred" does not mean "required." My first job "preferred" 1 yr of experience and a PGY1. I had three years of internship and no residency. What is it that people say? If you see a job you want but don't meet the requirements, apply for it anyway. Plenty of people have gotten ahead by doing that. Convince them you are a solid hire and learn the skills once you are there.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I don't know exactly where you are looking, but I searched on Indeed and found several hospitals in Georgia that could potentially hire you. Keep in mind that three years of intern experience, while not equivalent to being a full-time pharmacist, will definitely make you stand out. If it says hospital experience required, okay, you have hospital experience. If it specifically says pharmacist experience then you have to get creative.

https://hca.taleo.net/careersection/0hca/jobdetail.ftl?job=2105542&src=JB-11444 - 1 yr hospital experience preferred, meaning they will take a new grad. Put down "3 years" experience and list your internship.
https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWEbHo...=600204&PartnerId=25066&SiteId=5039&codes=IND - experience and residency preferred but not required
https://hca.taleo.net/careersection/0hca/jobdetail.ftl?job=2109141&src=JB-11444 - 1 yr preferred
https://careers.peopleclick.com/car...ource=Indeed.com&sourceType=PREMIUM_POST_SITE - 1 yr preferred
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Archbold-Medical-Center/jobs/Pharmacist-29ef5da5bd27695f?q=pharmacist - 1 yr preferred

I could go on and on. Just realize that "preferred" does not mean "required." My first job "preferred" 1 yr of experience and a PGY1. I had three years of internship and no residency. What is it that people say? If you see a job you want but don't meet the requirements, apply for it anyway. Plenty of people have gotten ahead by doing that. Convince them you are a solid hire and learn the skills once you are there.

I guess I'm just used to how things work at the hospitals in my area, where it is generally considered that "preferred" essentially means the same thing as "required" (BTW, I just double-checked, and the hospital pharmacy job listings for the two hospital networks in my area actually do say that 1-2 years of experience is required, not preferred). I applied for a part-time physical therapist assistant position a couple years ago at one of the hospitals, never heard back, and when I finally managed to get in touch with someone at human resources, she said that they basically don't look at most applications for any clinical positions unless the applicant has prior experience.

Some of those job listings are in decent areas, but I would never consider that last one in Camilla, GA; that is one of those po-dunk towns you drive past on the way to central/south FL and is totally disconnected from anything that remotely resembles civilization (3+ hours to closest medium-sized cities).

I have a feeling it's all a moot point anyways, because I just checked my student loan balance a few minutes ago, and from AA school and my first semester of pharmacy school, I'm already at $100k+, and I still have 7 semesters to go. Considering that I will inevitably have $200k+ to pay back when I graduate, I don't think it's even remotely feasible to expect to be able to pay off that much in loans on an $80k-$85k hospital pharmacist salary, so I'll probably have no choice but to work retail. BTW, I know a guy who worked for around 30 years as a hospital pharmacist, and he got fired last year and took a job at Walmart, and he said his first year of income as a Walmart pharmacist was more than what he made during his 30th year as a hospital pharmacist.

 

[gwarm01]

I guess I'm just used to how things work at the hospitals in my area, where it is generally considered that "preferred" essentially means the same thing as "required" (BTW, I just double-checked, and the hospital pharmacy job listings for the two hospital networks in my area actually do say that 1-2 years of experience is required, not preferred). I applied for a part-time physical therapist assistant position a couple years ago at one of the hospitals, never heard back, and when I finally managed to get in touch with someone at human resources, she said that they basically don't look at most applications for any clinical positions unless the applicant has prior experience.

Some of those job listings are in decent areas, but I would never consider that last one in Camilla, GA; that is one of those po-dunk towns you drive past on the way to central/south FL and is totally disconnected from anything that remotely resembles civilization (3+ hours to closest medium-sized cities).

I have a feeling it's all a moot point anyways, because I just checked my student loan balance a few minutes ago, and from AA school and my first semester of pharmacy school, I'm already at $100k+, and I still have 7 semesters to go. Considering that I will inevitably have $200k+ to pay back when I graduate, I don't think it's even remotely feasible to expect to be able to pay off that much in loans on an $80k-$85k hospital pharmacist salary, so I'll probably have no choice but to work retail. BTW, I know a guy who worked for around 30 years as a hospital pharmacist, and he got fired last year and took a job at Walmart, and he said his first year of income as a Walmart pharmacist was more than what he made during his 30th year as a hospital pharmacist.

I can see that. It takes ambition to make cash as a hospital pharmacist in the SE. Negotiating, strategically changing jobs, getting advancements. The average pharmacist is pretty conservative and might just keep their first job forever, along with the yearly 1-2% raises. It'll take forever to bridge the gap that way.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I can see that. It takes ambition to make cash as a hospital pharmacist in the SE. Negotiating, strategically changing jobs, getting advancements. The average pharmacist is pretty conservative and might just keep their first job forever, along with the yearly 1-2% raises. It'll take forever to bridge the gap that way.

The former hospital-turned-Walmart pharmacist also mentioned the bonuses at Walmart having the potential to substantially boost his income. So in all likelihood, I'll probably end up doing whatever I can to get a job with one of the "good" retail chains, unless I end up being one of those pharmacists who simply isn't cutout for retail.

BTW, according to Glassdoor.com, a DOP at one of the local hospitals reported their income to be $103k, so even getting promotions to higher-level positions isn't really a way to significantly improve your income in some parts of the SE.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Duh -- I'm not sure why I didn't think to post this before, but the whole reason I developed a renewed interest in recent days in the possibility of being a hospital pharmacist is because I've been looking into careers like MSL. My understanding is that to become an MSL, someone has to either complete a fellowship in medical affairs or have 1-2 years of hospital pharmacy experience, so I was thinking that it might possibly be worth it to take the low hospital pharmacist pay for a year or two if it resulted in a high likelihood of getting an MSL job afterwards.