Applying for residency from Caribbean

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Rhino5000

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Hey guys I have a question regarding applying for residency for anyone who's attended a Caribbean school and actually went through the experience of applying to residency programs. So I'll be starting at Ross pretty soon and I was wondering if students are allowed to apply to more than one type of residency type? For example, can I apply to radiology (competitive), and also internal medicine (not so competitive) at the same time?
Also, is Anesthesiology considered a competitive residency? I've read many contradicting facts online about that. Keep in mind I'm going to Ross.
Thanks :)

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This isn't a Caribbean specific question but yes you can dual apply. I'm a current student at Ross and they actual tell you and encourage dual enrollment. DR is competitive as you said. Anesthesia is moderately competitive but considered one of the more competitive specialties in terms of US-IMG matches and honestly the most competitive one people should attempt as a Caribbean grad (funny how some classmates are gunning for ortho/derm when those match rates were in the single digits).

As an IMG you'll be categorically applying to almost every anesthesia program that you have any shot at as well as probably 150 IM programs.
 
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This isn't a Caribbean specific question but yes you can dual apply. I'm a current student at Ross and they actual tell you and encourage dual enrollment. DR is competitive as you said. Anesthesia is moderately competitive but considered one of the more competitive specialties in terms of US-IMG matches and honestly the most competitive one people should attempt as a Caribbean grad (funny how some classmates are gunning for ortho/derm when those match rates were in the single digits).

As an IMG you'll be categorically applying to almost every anesthesia program that you have any shot at as well as probably 150 IM programs.
So is it possible to end up matching into both residency programs? Then you would just pick which one you want to go with ( radiology or IM in this example)? Or how exactly would it work?
 
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You should do some research into how the match works but essentially you apply everything, go to the interviews you get invited for, and then rank the programs you want in order. Obviously you'd put all the rads programs in the top with the IM programs further down then list. Every program you've interviewed at will then rank you on their own list. Come match day, a computer algorithm will try to match the highest ranks on program lists with the applicant if they're on the highest and then work down.
 
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Got it. I know for US applicants, 7-10 interviews should be enough in order to match (hopefully, I know its still not a 100% guarantee). How about for Carib students? Around how many interviews should students coming from Ross be looking to rank in order to (hopefully) guarantee a match?
 
Got it. I know for US applicants, 7-10 interviews should be enough in order to match (hopefully, I know its still not a 100% guarantee). How about for Carib students? Around how many interviews should students coming from Ross be looking to rank in order to (hopefully) guarantee a match?


Look at IMG match rates, US-IMG has a slight advantage in some specialties. However, still pretty abysmal match rates which are expected to decrease with the merger. High risk, high reward. Fail to match - no reward and crippling debt.
 
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Got it. I know for US applicants, 7-10 interviews should be enough in order to match (hopefully, I know its still not a 100% guarantee). How about for Carib students? Around how many interviews should students coming from Ross be looking to rank in order to (hopefully) guarantee a match?

It all depends on your application honestly. If you barely pass Step 1 and score a 198 or something you can expect zero interviews in just about any field you apply to. Maaaybe a couple in fam med in the lowest tier institutions. I kinda agree with the guy above, it is high risk but tbh the risk is more on you. In caribbean you kinda gamble on yourself. The classes aren't designed for you to fail (at least at the big 3 for the most part), they are passable. The problem is that schools accept most anyone and a lot of them don't study and just go to the beach, etc. Graduates I've talked to that score 220+ have gotten 12-15 interviews since they apply so broadly. If you honestly think you can score a 225+ and apply hella broadly into your desired field as well as IM/FM as backup you shouldn't worry much about matching.

TLDR how many interviews can you expect? 0 as baseline, and only up from there bud
 
Interesting to look at tbh. Can anyone explain to me the contiguous ranks part? It looks like those that didn't match in every specialty had an average of only 1 or 2 contiguous ranks while those that did match were 8+. My understanding of contiguous ranks was it is the number of programs you ranked from the same specialty. Why would they only rank one or two? Sorry this question might be very dumb...
because they only got 1 or 2 interviews man, not rocket science lol
 
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Yes I was correct my question was very dumb lol my bad
You should also check out the IMG match threads to get a feel on how many people have very few interviews. Personally, I would try app redevelopment for at least a DO application cycle before going carib. Also those islands are said to be the worst in terms of actual living conditions if you don't come from money.
 
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You should also check out the IMG match threads to get a feel on how many people have very few interviews. Personally, I would try app redevelopment for at least a DO application cycle before going carib. Also those islands are said to be the worst in terms of actual living conditions if you don't come from money.
What he said. I'd never recommend carib route if you can avoid it. Apply 2 cycles at least to DO schools and consider a post-bacc before carib because even the worst DO school has much better chance of matching you than the "best" carib school.

As far as living conditions, I can only attest to Barbados. The housing (while stupidly expensive) is considered upper class housing in the country. The houses are new and wifi is stable. You have your own A/C in the room but no central HVAC for the living room so if you've never lived in Europe/Asia where AC is uncommon you might have to get used to it. Food is all imported so while most everything is available, its anywhere from 20-100% more expensive. Barbados is one of the more developed islands compared to Grenada, Antigua, etc. so milage will greatly vary. I came from a lower class family but my FAFSA/student plus loans are more than sufficient to my school costs and day to day living.
 
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Look at IMG match rates, US-IMG has a slight advantage in some specialties. However, still pretty abysmal match rates which are expected to decrease with the merger. High risk, high reward. Fail to match - no reward and crippling debt.
Wouldn't the merger also open up DO programs for IMGs? I've spoken to a couple physicians that are currently practicing and they pretty much said a lot of times Carib MDs have a better chance of matching than DO students. I feel like the stats of IMG's match are low because of low tier carib schools like St. James or St. Martinus or whatever ..... When it comes to Ross or SGU, they're match rates are usually around 96% (I understand that's 96% of those who actually don't drop out and make it through the 4 yrs). Is it really that big of a risk if you're a normal student that's actually gonna study like a normal medical student and not party all week lol?
 
Wouldn't the merger also open up DO programs for IMGs? I've spoken to a couple physicians that are currently practicing and they pretty much said a lot of times Carib MDs have a better chance of matching than DO students. I feel like the stats of IMG's match are low because of low tier carib schools like St. James or St. Martinus or whatever ..... When it comes to Ross or SGU, they're match rates are usually around 96% (I understand that's 96% of those who actually don't drop out and make it through the 4 yrs). Is it really that big of a risk if you're a normal student that's actually gonna study like a normal medical student and not party all week lol?

Caribs having higher match rates is very much false. Here's some stats for you. Ross accepts ~800 students a year (200 summer, 400 fall, 200 winter). They report a 92% first time residency match rate, which while technically true, only encompasses ~460 students. Overall they get like 670 residencies a year so 200 or so are repeat applicants. So while technically 92% is higher than the average DO placement rate of what was it like 91%? It is kinda using stats to your benefit.

Merger does technically open up some former spots to everyone but they're also opened up to US MD students. What will help the big 4 schools is in 2023 the ECFMG is making a change so if your school doesn't have regional accreditation than you can't apply for US residencies. Ross, SGU, and others are CAAM-HP accredited (main carib accrediting body) so they can apply whereas some schools in the carib and a lot from other countries won't be able to, so it can only help us with the accreditation.
 
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Caribs having higher match rates is very much false. Here's some stats for you. Ross accepts ~800 students a year (200 summer, 400 fall, 200 winter). They report a 92% first time residency match rate, which while technically true, only encompasses ~460 students. Overall they get like 670 residencies a year so 200 or so are repeat applicants. So while technically 92% is higher than the average DO placement rate of what was it like 91%? It is kinda using stats to your benefit.

Merger does technically open up some former spots to everyone but they're also opened up to US MD students. What will help the big 4 schools is in 2023 the ECFMG is making a change so if your school doesn't have regional accreditation than you can't apply for US residencies. Ross, SGU, and others are CAAM-HP accredited (main carib accrediting body) so they can apply whereas some schools in the carib and a lot from other countries won't be able to, so it can only help us with the accreditation.
I didn't quite understand that first part. Why would that 92% only encompass only 460 students out of the 800? Did the rest drop out? And how would it include 200 repeat applicants if the stat says "first time" residency match rate ?(assuming repeat applicant means applying for residency again after failing to match the first time). I really wanna understand better that piece of stat you mentioned
 
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I didn't quite understand that first part. Why would that 92% only encompass only 460 students out of the 800? Did the rest drop out? And how would it include 200 repeat applicants if the stat says "first time" residency match rate ?(assuming repeat applicant means applying for residency again after failing to match the first time). I really wanna understand better that piece of stat you mentioned

92% of people that graduated and applied for residency. The remaining ~320 dropped/flunked out and never made it to being able to apply for the match, hence they aren't included in the statistic. I included the 200 repeat applicant because on their website under residency appointments they count the repeat applicants in the same boat as first timers so I just gave it as a reference that it isn't 670/800 first time match rather its 670 total with 200 being repeats. They gave us some other stats, like people that had 2.00-2.24 upon graduation had an average Step 1 of 212 with a match rate of 73%. Another good one is if you fail step 1, step 2 cs, or step 2 ck on the first try then your match rate drops to 50% and if you fail 2 or more of them first try it goes down to 38%.

Also, to answer the earlier question of whether or not it is that big of a risk to come carib if you plan on taking it seriously and studying. Well the answer isn't too clear cut. If you can learn the material effectively and make it through your pre-clinicals, you're home free. Once you pass the first 2 years and step 1 Ross genuinely wants you to pass and match since they've now invested in you and you failing would look bad in their reported stats. That being said, they aren't trying to make you fail the first 2 years, they just don't really care if you do as they still get paid. There's no limits on repeating semesters but you can't repeat the same semester more than once or else you're out unless you can appeal it somehow. Also, if you fail with less than a 57%, you're also out. You can remediate once during pre-clinicals so if you're within 5% of passing they let you take another cumulative final and if you score a 70% you can progress to the next semester.

They recently changed a LOOOT of stuff this semester and made 1st term much easier with the spreading out of anatomy over 3 semesters instead of it all just in 1. I think it had to do with the fact that they accepted even less competitive than normal applicants last semester with a class size of 420 which is a historical high and 180 people failed and have to remediate or have gotten kicked out. 180 isn't an official number but it's what we've heard through the grapevine. Typically 1st semester failure rate is around 20-30% so it was a shock for the school I'm sure.
 
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92% of people that graduated and applied for residency. The remaining ~320 dropped/flunked out and never made it to being able to apply for the match, hence they aren't included in the statistic. I included the 200 repeat applicant because on their website under residency appointments they count the repeat applicants in the same boat as first timers so I just gave it as a reference that it isn't 670/800 first time match rather its 670 total with 200 being repeats. They gave us some other stats, like people that had 2.00-2.24 upon graduation had an average Step 1 of 212 with a match rate of 73%. Another good one is if you fail step 1, step 2 cs, or step 2 ck on the first try then your match rate drops to 50% and if you fail 2 or more of them first try it goes down to 38%.

Also, to answer the earlier question of whether or not it is that big of a risk to come carib if you plan on taking it seriously and studying. Well the answer isn't too clear cut. If you can learn the material effectively and make it through your pre-clinicals, you're home free. Once you pass the first 2 years and step 1 Ross genuinely wants you to pass and match since they've now invested in you and you failing would look bad in their reported stats. That being said, they aren't trying to make you fail the first 2 years, they just don't really care if you do as they still get paid. There's no limits on repeating semesters but you can't repeat the same semester more than once or else you're out unless you can appeal it somehow. Also, if you fail with less than a 57%, you're also out. You can remediate once during pre-clinicals so if you're within 5% of passing they let you take another cumulative final and if you score a 70% you can progress to the next semester.

They recently changed a LOOOT of stuff this semester and made 1st term much easier with the spreading out of anatomy over 3 semesters instead of it all just in 1. I think it had to do with the fact that they accepted even less competitive than normal applicants last semester with a class size of 420 which is a historical high and 180 people failed and have to remediate or have gotten kicked out. 180 isn't an official number but it's what we've heard through the grapevine. Typically 1st semester failure rate is around 20-30% so it was a shock for the school I'm sure.
Ooooh Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. If I may ask, how is your experience so far? Liking it? Not really? Good professors/doctors? Other students are friendly/ good personalities? And what made you decide to go to Ross?
 
Ooooh Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. If I may ask, how is your experience so far? Liking it? Not really? Good professors/doctors? Other students are friendly/ good personalities? And what made you decide to go to Ross?
It's not bad so far. If you did well in undergrad biochem and cell bio the first part of the semester shouldn't be too bad for you. I typically start studying around 8am by doing anki cards I made, then watch and take notes on the lectures once they're posted on Panopto followed by doing practice questions and making anki cards for those lectures. You typically never "finish" studying; I go to bed around 11pm and work up until then typically but I'm not a very concentrated person so I'm sure if you were a robot and never got distracted you'd be where I'm at closer to like 8pm or something. We have a practice exam this coming Monday so we'll see how that goes and if I need to make any adjustments to my studying,.

Professors are mostly pretty good. Most are American with some European docs but all easily understandable w/o heavy accents (which I would hate trying to decipher). There are a mix of PhD/MD with more PhDs than MDs but it's an okay mix.

Students in my class are mostly pretty chill, there are definitely some I've pegged as failing out simply because they're always out at the beach or whatever and posting about it. You'll find some nut jobs too that came here not because of grades, but because they have no personality or are weird asf and did bad on their US med school interviews.

I decided to go carib after feeling my stats were too weak for US DO schools. My undergrad made my decision easier when they forgot to mail out my transcripts until after the deadline for all but 2 schools I applied to last cycle so that was a ****show. Overall, I did my research, saw the numbers and decided to do carib instead of a post-bacc. My goal is EM so I'm not gunning for ortho or anything that would outright require a US degree and plan on dual applying to IM as well in case.

As for why Ross in particular. Well I did my research and narrowed my choices down to here, SGU, and AUA. I got into AUA first and was immediately turned off by the recruiter. While yes I know, you only want me for my $, he was very pushy and annoying. There's also some spicy controversies that happened at AUA some years ago. Couple with that, the fact that it'll take you 5 years to complete even though they advertise 4 years, and the fact that they are a newer program made in 2004, I ended up taking them off my potential list. I compared Ross and SGU. SGU is technically number 1 with Ross at number 2. I decided to go to Ross based on the fact that the cost was a bit cheaper, SGU had mandatory lectures (now changed I believe?), class sizes were still much smaller than at SGU, the hospital I worked at had just as many Ross grads as SGU grads, and I preferred Barbados over Grenada. Though honestly, between SGU, Ross, AUC there isn't a big difference on your chances of finishing and matching; especially since Ross and AUC are both owned by Adtalem lol.
 
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Ooooh Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me. If I may ask, how is your experience so far? Liking it? Not really? Good professors/doctors? Other students are friendly/ good personalities? And what made you decide to go to Ross?

They recently changed a LOOOT of stuff this semester and made 1st term much easier with the spreading out of anatomy over 3 semesters instead of it all just in 1. I think it had to do with the fact that they accepted even less competitive than normal applicants last semester with a class size of 420 which is a historical high and 180 people failed and have to remediate or have gotten kicked out. 180 isn't an official number but it's what we've heard through the grapevine. Typically 1st semester failure rate is around 20-30% so it was a shock for the school I'm sure.

I can talk a little bit about the first-semester curriculum changes as I am a first-semester student at Ross and my class is the first cohort to be introduced to this new formatting. Again, the semester just started, so I can't give you much info, but I'll tell you what i know up to this point. Take things with a grain of salt if you must.

With the reduction of anatomy content and spreading it over multiple semesters, they have introduced a new thing that is part of our grade. It is called Formative Assessments, which is their fancy way of calling it a quiz and then a class meeting to discuss the quiz. Basically, every single weekend with the exception of the weekend leading up to a mini (aka exams), we have a quiz (10-11 questions) that we do. There are 10 quizzes and 10 review sessions of the quiz. We get 1 point for doing 30% or higher on the quizzes and another point for attending these 2 hour review sessions. Overall, you need 12 points for the 1 point part of that category or 16 points for 2 points in that category.

Now onto Mini aka midterms. We have 1 Mock Mini aka Mini 0 and 3 Minis that count for our grade. Mini 0 is a mock mini exam that probably most first semester in the past have taken or somewhat close to it. It doesn't count for our grade and it's a way for us to assess/adjust our studying techniques/habits. Because we have a mini 0, the rest of the mini exams are weighted more for our grade. Each one is upwards of like 21% or so and there are 3 of them. Final is like 30%? anatomy, we have one practical (compared to like 3-4 in the past) and that is 5%. Formative Assessment is 2% of our grade. Besides that, traditionally in the past, Semester 1 had anatomy for their first mini, but we dont have anatomy til week 5 or 6 and onwards, which means it will be for our Mini 2. I'm not sure if there are any clinical portion changes. From the looks of it, there seems to not be any, but I will have to see.

Also, I'm not sure if it's for upper semesters or not, but at least in first semester, Ross has taken out mpel from our grade calculation. Now, we only have to meet the minimum passing score (MPS), which is basically your class average cumulative percentage/scores. However, due to the change in our curriculum, the score needed to move onto the accelerated (4 semester) track has been increased to 75% for new students (idk about repeaters). I believe in the past, you needed a 70% to move to the 4-semester track and a 75% if you're repeating. Otherwise, you will be in the standard track which is 5 semesters here on the island. MPS will vary, and I heard it will never go above 70%. In the past, MPS has hovered around 65%-67%. We will see what is the MPS of my class will be. I would assume higher due to the curriculum changes.

What Gambino said is right, they are really trying hard to help us pass. They assigned us first semester with a faculty mentor to track our progress from Mini 0 to the final. We have to meet with our faculty mentor every so often. I heard they did this in the past as well

Overall the new changes seem promising thus far, but I won't have a real opinion on it until this semester is over. lmk if you got any other questions!
 
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I can talk a little bit about the first-semester curriculum changes as I am a first-semester student at Ross and my class is the first cohort to be introduced to this new formatting. Again, the semester just started, so I can't give you much info, but I'll tell you what i know up to this point. Take things with a grain of salt if you must.

With the reduction of anatomy content and spreading it over multiple semesters, they have introduced a new thing that is part of our grade. It is called Formative Assessments, which is their fancy way of calling it a quiz and then a class meeting to discuss the quiz. Basically, every single weekend with the exception of the weekend leading up to a mini (aka exams), we have a quiz (10-11 questions) that we do. There are 10 quizzes and 10 review sessions of the quiz. We get 1 point for doing 30% or higher on the quizzes and another point for attending these 2 hour review sessions. Overall, you need 12 points for the 1 point part of that category or 16 points for 2 points in that category.

Now onto Mini aka midterms. We have 1 Mock Mini aka Mini 0 and 3 Minis that count for our grade. Mini 0 is a mock mini exam that probably most first semester in the past have taken or somewhat close to it. It doesn't count for our grade and it's a way for us to assess/adjust our studying techniques/habits. Because we have a mini 0, the rest of the mini exams are weighted more for our grade. Each one is upwards of like 21% or so and there are 3 of them. Final is like 30%? anatomy, we have one practical (compared to like 3-4 in the past) and that is 5%. Formative Assessment is 2% of our grade. Besides that, traditionally in the past, Semester 1 had anatomy for their first mini, but we dont have anatomy til week 5 or 6 and onwards, which means it will be for our Mini 2. I'm not sure if there are any clinical portion changes. From the looks of it, there seems to not be any, but I will have to see.

Also, I'm not sure if it's for upper semesters or not, but at least in first semester, Ross has taken out mpel from our grade calculation. Now, we only have to meet the minimum passing score (MPS), which is basically your class average cumulative percentage/scores. However, due to the change in our curriculum, the score needed to move onto the accelerated (4 semester) track has been increased to 75% for new students (idk about repeaters). I believe in the past, you needed a 70% to move to the 4-semester track and a 75% if you're repeating. Otherwise, you will be in the standard track which is 5 semesters here on the island. MPS will vary, and I heard it will never go above 70%. In the past, MPS has hovered around 65%-67%. We will see what is the MPS of my class will be. I would assume higher due to the curriculum changes.

What Gambino said is right, they are really trying hard to help us pass. They assigned us first semester with a faculty mentor to track our progress from Mini 0 to the final. We have to meet with our faculty mentor every so often. I heard they did this in the past as well

Overall the new changes seem promising thus far, but I won't have a real opinion on it until this semester is over. lmk if you got any other questions!
Thanks for sharing... What is mpel tho? I heard that only term 1 is pass/fail, then every other term is included in a "GPA" system. Is that right? Also, what classes and what type of anatomy are included in term 1?
 
Wouldn't the merger also open up DO programs for IMGs? I've spoken to a couple physicians that are currently practicing and they pretty much said a lot of times Carib MDs have a better chance of matching than DO students. I feel like the stats of IMG's match are low because of low tier carib schools like St. James or St. Martinus or whatever ..... When it comes to Ross or SGU, they're match rates are usually around 96% (I understand that's 96% of those who actually don't drop out and make it through the 4 yrs). Is it really that big of a risk if you're a normal student that's actually gonna study like a normal medical student and not party all week lol?
Those telling you carrib has a better chance of residency than DO are objectively wrong. It’s not true

Don’t go carribean if there is any stinking chance you might eek into a US school in the next few years, even then I don’t suggest it with odds of no residency approaching 50%. Everyone thinks they are the ones who will make it but the path to residency is strewn with a lot of failures that thought the same thing
 
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Thanks for sharing... What is mpel tho? I heard that only term 1 is pass/fail, then every other term is included in a "GPA" system. Is that right? Also, what classes and what type of anatomy are included in term 1?
mpel is a minimum passing score for each subject so say you got a 70 overall but scored below the required 57% on embryology questions for example, then you would fail the semester despite having an overall passing grade. Very stupid requirement and I'm glad I don't have to worry about it coming into this semester. It'd make more sense if they let you retake a particular module like they do in most US schools but just a weed out/cash grab imo if you have to retake the entire semester over it.

Also 1st term is HP/P/F but before this semester you still needed that minimum score in every subject to be considering passing.
 
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Thanks for sharing... What is mpel tho? I heard that only term 1 is pass/fail, then every other term is included in a "GPA" system. Is that right? Also, what classes and what type of anatomy are included in term 1?

So, 1st sem is p/f and the rest is graded on a letter system. For anatomy, I havent gotten to it yet. As I mentioned above, they spread anatomy across multiple semesters. Historically, i should have seen anatomy by now but I have not. I can PM you later when I see it. I think we're doing anatomy based on the organ system, but I can be wrong. I'll update you later !
 
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Wouldn't the merger also open up DO programs for IMGs? I've spoken to a couple physicians that are currently practicing and they pretty much said a lot of times Carib MDs have a better chance of matching than DO students. I feel like the stats of IMG's match are low because of low tier carib schools like St. James or St. Martinus or whatever ..... When it comes to Ross or SGU, they're match rates are usually around 96% (I understand that's 96% of those who actually don't drop out and make it through the 4 yrs). Is it really that big of a risk if you're a normal student that's actually gonna study like a normal medical student and not party all week lol?
LOL those people must live under a rock, the DO placement rate(ie people who got a residency and have a job after school) is actually 98.84% for all the DO schools combined, many have a 100%, the absolute match rate is 82% for DO’s in the nrmp(MD match) but you must realize that number doesn’t include the AOA match which was there last year, so the actual match rate for DO’s is prbly in a be low 90’s. you can still get a residency spot outside of the match in the SOAP etc, and thus the placement rate is 98% for DO’s. Don’t go to the carribean,even if you do well the best you will be able to match is FM/Peds/ community IM and Neuro/Path, the least desired Specialties by USMD and DO studnets, stuff like academic IM, gen surgery, radiology, anesthesiology, OBGYN, and PMR and EM are very hard to match as an IMG but much much easier to match as a DO, even the competitive stuff like ortho or derm are easier to match as a DO, because they have their own programs many of which made the transition to the acgme.
OP just look at this pdf below:
There’s more DO’s in each specialty besides like FM or IM and there are FAR more IMG’s(people from carribean schools) applying in the match then DO’s plus DO’s had their own AOA match in 2019 so keep that in mind, it basically means that the IMG match rate is crap. Re take mcat and do an SMP and apply to DO before even thinking about the carribean, the merger and DO and MD school expansion will make things much worse for IMG by the time you are trying to match, if you even get there.
 
Take a look at the residency match list for Ross/AUC/SGU.

I graduated from AUC 2014 and I have noticed a drastic reduction in competitive residency matches from my year.

Much less university IM matches too.

I think going to the Caribbean gets exponentially scarier year to year. Good luck.
 
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