applying md /phd

[unleash500]

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what it look bad if i apply to to md/phd for some schools and just md for other schools?

 

[Beta Cell]

what it look bad if i apply to to md/phd for some schools and just md for other schools?

What is the motivation on that? The MD/PhD program is usually the more difficult program to gain the favorable decision. Do you want an MD/PhD (if you really did, I can't understand why you'd apply MD some places unless they allowed you to enroll in the PhD program later or they didn't offer combined degrees)?

 

[unleash500]

I want to do md/phd in philosophy.
However, i don't think many schools offer such a program.

 

[LaTortuga]

Hmm, I don't see a problem with applying MD to some schools, and MD/PhD to others. A friend of mine did the mixed MD and MD/PhD applications a few years ago ... I guess the idea was to maximize his odds of getting into some program ... MD acceptance? (great) ... MD/PhD acceptance (even better).

Though, most combined MD/PhD programs are designed for training physician scientists rather than what you are hoping for.

If it's your dream, I'd say go for it. I don't think schools can even see where you apply on the AMCAS, so as long as you stay mum, no one will know but you.

 

[dmblue]

MD PhD forum: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=32

If you want to do your PhD in philosophy, you need to seriously think about why. There are very few people who do this every year (probably 0-2). You need to know how the MD benefits your research in philosophy and vice versa. Only a few programs are willing to take students who are interested in philosophy.

I'd try to ask this in the md phd forum, or maybe someone will move this thread.

 

[146233]

That's right; the majority of MD/PhD programs are medical scientist training programs (MSTP), and the PhD is a scientific discipline. Several schools, however, offer a variant of that, allowing the MD and a PhD in any discipline.

The short answer to your question is no; applying MD/PhD and MD-only won't hurt you. Schools understand that MSTP is competitive and that applicants may wish to hedge their bets. Most, if not all, MSTP programs will refer you for MD-only consideration if you are not offered admission to the MD/PhD.

Why the interest in Philosophy? Is it something you want to integrate/reconcile with medicine, or is it just another passion of yours?

 

[NiCad089]

I want to do md/phd in philosophy.
However, i don't think many schools offer such a program.

How would you combine philosophy and medicine? The point of md/phd programs is to prepare physician scientists who will have majority research careers. How would the philosophy degree help you do this?

 

[146233]

How would you combine philosophy and medicine? The point of md/phd programs is to prepare physician scientists who will have majority research careers. How would the philosophy degree help you do this?

Bioethics, to cite one example. Regular ethics to cite another.

 

[ngkats]

Bioethics, to cite one example. Regular ethics to cite another.

Indeed, several schools over MD/PhD specifically for bioethics (e.g., SLU).

 

[dmblue]

I know emory has 1-2 people doing their phd in Philosophy. One of the guys interviewing explained it to me, but I can't really remember what he said.

You would need to call the MSTP offices to see if they allow PhD's in nontraditional subjects. Some don't even allow biomedical engineering, while others allow nearly anything.

 

[pazan]

I know someone going this route (MD/PhD in philosophy) and I know of a few bigwigs in health policy with both degrees... all I can say is that they don't just give out PhDs in philosophy. You have to have demonstrated something beyond just an interest in philosophy -- either by very good LORs from and grades in philosophy classes, essays in philosophy journals, etc. I think if you have that, any school with an MD program and Philosophy department will consider the combination.

Also, to answer your original question, I applied to both programs and wish I would have applied MD/PhD to all... don't sell yourself short.

 

[Stixman28]

I think we need to make a small distinction here.

I thought about this route too, and to my knowledge, none of the MSTP funded programs will pay for you to get a PhD in philosophy, only in the sciences. (I am not even sure if they will fund epidemiology.) About 20 of the MD/PhD programs in the nation are MSTP funded.

Of the non MSTP funded MD/PhD programs some are more flexible than others. Check websites bc most schools list the programs they will let you get your PhD in.

 

[dmblue]

I think we need to make a small distinction here.

I thought about this route too, and to my knowledge, none of the MSTP funded programs will pay for you to get a PhD in philosophy, only in the sciences. (I am not even sure if they will fund epidemiology.) About 20 of the MD/PhD programs in the nation are MSTP funded.

Of the non MSTP funded MD/PhD programs some are more flexible than others. Check websites bc most schools list the programs they will let you get your PhD in.

No offense, but that is some AWFUL information.

Here's the list of MD/Phd Programs
http://www.aamc.org/students/considering/research/mdphd/programs.htm

Of these, ~43 are MSTP funded. Not 20
http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/PredocInst-MSTP.htm

Emory is an example of an MSTP that allows the PhD in philosophy. I know there are several others.

 

[loveoforganic]

This is interesting. I'd always assumed for some reason that the doctorate had to be as a medical researcher.

 

[dmblue]

This is interesting. I'd always assumed for some reason that the doctorate had to be as a medical researcher.

Most are in the biological sciences or biomedical engineering.

There are a few people doing things like anthropology, philosophy, etc. Not many though

 

[Stixman28]

I stand corrected. Thanks for fixing the info.

But that Emory site is unclear if the humanities PhD is MSTP funded or funded by the university itself.

The MSTP website you linked to lists these as funded areas of research:

The Institute's research programs encompass the following areas:

* cell biology
* biophysics
* genetics
* developmental biology
* pharmacology
*physiology
*biological chemistry
* bioinformatics
* computational biology

 

[Suenya]

There are quite a few schools with MD/PhD in philosophy, but many do not have only partial or no coverage for the MD program (meaning you have to pay your way, it's not free like some science MD/PhD).

I don't think it can hurt you. I applied to 2 programs MD/PhD (and one Masters program) in philosophy, although I am not planning to again if I end up reapplying. In addition to the schools that have a program (such as georgetown) other schools are open to less common PhDs (such as Harvard, through the social sciences program).

Unlike some other MDPhD programs, the PhD portion of some MD/PhD philosophy programs can be very long. 5-7 years average. So, add that on to residency and training, that is a lot of time in school. This is why I am not planning on reapping with it, it's just too long. Personally, I think it can be a good match for some people, but if you are really interested in bioethics, philosophy of science etc, it might make more sense to just do the PhD alone. I think bioethicists tend to be their best when they have training in philosophy instead of just medicine, although the combination might be useful.

Other schools have MPH and MA programs that have a bioethics focus that you might want to consider as well. 1-1.5 years is alot less than a whole PhD. In addition, some schools have freedom to study in different programs at the school. Harvard Med has a bioethics program for normal medical students that are interested in it, for example.

But it shouldn't look bad.

 

[dmblue]

I stand corrected. Thanks for fixing the info.

But that Emory site is unclear if the humanities PhD is MSTP funded or funded by the university itself.

The MSTP website you linked to lists these as funded areas of research:

The Institute's research programs encompass the following areas:

* cell biology
* biophysics
* genetics
* developmental biology
* pharmacology
*physiology
*biological chemistry
* bioinformatics
* computational biology

I don't know if the NIH limits the schools or not. I do know that many MSTP's offer PhD's outside of those you just listed. The majority of them offer a PhD in biomedical engineering for example, which is not included on that list.

Also here are some similar threads
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=442898&highlight=philosophy

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=166833&highlight=philosophy

 

[sully677]

Do people complete their PhD in math during the MD/PhD programs??

 

[dmblue]

Do people complete their PhD in math during the MD/PhD programs??

rarely, math phd's usually take a long time and usually involve teaching requirements.

Read this.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=600347&highlight=math

You would be much better off doing biophysics or biomedical engineering.

 

[NiCad089]

Bioethics, to cite one example. Regular ethics to cite another.

That makes sense.

 

[NiCad089]

Do people complete their PhD in math during the MD/PhD programs??

Not that I know of. I do know one MD PhD in math but he did the PhD many years later. The math PhD takes a long time to complete and has a lot of teaching requirements. However, there are MD PhD programs that allow you to do math, but I don't know of any MSTP programs. You may want to consider BME or computational biology .

 

[sully677]

Thanks! I'll look into that.

 

[Stixman28]

Thanks! I'll look into that.

I saw a very cool lecture once from a physics PhD turned MD. His mathematical background was crucial to the work he did in seizure prediction with multi electrode array implants. (Just to give you an idea of what someone with those degrees gets into sully) Works at Mayo I think.