Applying MSTP this year - need secondary advice... please!

[gersh489]

---

Members don't see this ad.

querty

 

[totalcommand]

I am applying to a large number of MD/PhD programs this year and could use some advice regarding the secondaries - one of the recurrent questions asks what department I would like to enter and what sort of graduate study I wish to pursue.... my gut response is, "I don't know."

Can I get in if I answer the question this way? I really don't want to commit to any particular research area without knowing the professors, the techniques and other particulars in the availible areas at the med school (I would like to put off deciding who I will do the PhD with and in what department until I have been at the school for a while). Is this possible? Or will I be universally rejected if I take this approach?

Also - I already posed this question in the pre-allo forum, but I didn't get too much of a response beyond "you need more clinical experience" ; what do you all think of the school list below, should I make any last minute additions? Do I actually stand a chance at the ivies?

36Q, 3.7 sci 3.69 overall, 1 first author pub, 3 papers in progress (work completed just writing them up), plus my masters thesis should be publishible within the next few months. (I am completing a masters in 1 year... directly after my undergrad). I have no clinical experience - extensive vet med - parents are pathologists.


Mount sinai 30
U of Colorado 26
case western 22
stanford 7
U mich 11
U of Virginia 25
northwestern 20
Dartmouth 32
U of Illinois 62
U of Iowa 30
Vanderbilt 17
Nevada Not ranked
Cincinatti 42
UW 7
Harvard 1
University of Pennsylvania 3
UCSF 4
Washington university 4
yale 9
baylor 10
OSU 32
Oregon 32
Rochester 36
Albert Einstein 38
Tufts 42
tulane 50
U of Utah 50
Saint lois 62
U pitt 16

Thanks for any advice!

I used those kind of questions to plug my interests in research, and said tentatively what departments I would like. But I also was quick to point out that I always find new things I like, so my interests/plans for PhD couid always change.

Clinical experience is a must even for MD/PhD or MSTP. If you choose to apply this year, make sure you find some hardcore clinical experience to do while you are applying at least, or take another year off if necessary. Schools will be unsure of whether they want to train you as a doctor because they won't be sure that you know at least a little about what the "real" doctor experience is like.

 

[vector07]

I am applying to a large number of MD/PhD programs this year and could use some advice regarding the secondaries - one of the recurrent questions asks what department I would like to enter and what sort of graduate study I wish to pursue.... my gut response is, "I don't know."

I had the same question when I started this process; I'm interested in a methodological approach that crosses many disciplines and graduate fields. Try looking at potential mentors at each school that asks this question, and find some faculty who are doing interesting research. Then choose their graduate department on the app.

At some schools, not having a specific graduate area of interest is really bad it seems; and at others, it's not as big a deal.

 

[Neuronix]

Clinical experience is a must even for MD/PhD or MSTP.

According to who? I know several students in my class alone that had 0 clinical experience coming into the program. I've seen people here on SDN who had no clinical experience do well in the admissions process.

What I'm really interested in is which schools feel really strongly about this. I always hear UCSF, but have never heard anything else definite.

 

[Neuronix]

I am applying to a large number of MD/PhD programs this year and could use some advice regarding the secondaries - one of the recurrent questions asks what department I would like to enter and what sort of graduate study I wish to pursue.... my gut response is, "I don't know."

Can I get in if I answer the question this way?

I could give you a longer answer, but it boils down to: yes, it's fine. Don't worry about it. You'll probably get follow up questions about what things you'd be looking for in a lab or how to extend your prior research.

Do I actually stand a chance at the ivies?

It sounds like you do. What I don't understand about your list is: why is it so varied? I can't find a theme there. You have every tier, every location, from city to suburb to almost rural. Some really random schools on the list too, with small MD/PhD programs. Why did you pick the schools you did? It's a fine list, I just think you'll have enough success that applying to schools like SLU or UNevada will not have made much sense in the long run, unless of course you have some strong attachment to SLU. My general advice would be to pull out most of the schools on your list ranked past 30, and fill in with more in the 20s. This isn't a ranking thing, just a generalization. That is again if you don't have some good reason why you applied to those particular schools.

Good luck!

 

[gersh489]

Some really random schools on the list too, with small MD/PhD programs. Why did you pick the schools you did? It's a fine list, I just think you'll have enough success that applying to schools like SLU or UNevada will not have made much sense in the long run

I know someone who w

 

[totalcommand]

According to who? I know several students in my class alone that had 0 clinical experience coming into the program. I've seen people here on SDN who had no clinical experience do well in the admissions process.

What I'm really interested in is which schools feel really strongly about this. I always hear UCSF, but have never heard anything else definite.

I was just going off of what I heard from Admissions people at random places. It's good to hear though that it doesn't matter too much for mstp 👍

 

[Vader]

According to who? I know several students in my class alone that had 0 clinical experience coming into the program. I've seen people here on SDN who had no clinical experience do well in the admissions process.

What I'm really interested in is which schools feel really strongly about this. I always hear UCSF, but have never heard anything else definite.

My impression of the way it works at most MD/PhD programs is that clinical experience is a plus but not necessary in an absolute sense, provided an applicant has some amazing research.

Personally, I believe that applicants should have at least some clinical exposure (even if just a little clinical volunteer work, shadowing or having some family members who are physicians, etc). Otherwise, it is very difficult to understand why an applicant should want to pursue the MD. If a medical school is willing to invest its resources in training a physician-scientist, then I believe that both aspects must be emphasized, especially if we are to create a larger pool of translational researchers (which is a very contemporary topic at the NIH nowadays with the creation and distribution of new Translational training grants).

To the OP, I wouldn't worry about your application--sounds like you have good MCATs, grades, and importantly research. Make sure your letters of rec are excellent. Be sure to practice interviewing (videotape yourself if you are worried about how you appear to others--this is uncomfortable but actually helps work out the kinks). Also, try to look at the web sites and find some areas and faculty of interest before you arrive. Come armed with lots of questions so that you show interest in the program (or at least are prepared when the interviewer asks "have any questions?").

Good luck! 🙂

 

[Neuronix]

Thanks all, and heres hoping clinical experience isn't a must!!!

Someone PMed me to disagree and state that clinical experience is more important than I'm leading you to believe. They could be right, and I want you to consider that. In particular, URochester requires the MD side to admit you before you can be considered MD/PhD. The PM would imply they're not going to give you a break on clinical experience for being a MD/PhD applicant.

Again, it's going to vary from school to school and even from adcom to adcom. It's kind of like the interview issue. Of course the research interviews matter, but how much? How often is it important? Do they ever make or break someone's application? How often? It's the same with clinical exposure. Of course it matters, but how much? Sometimes it's hard to get a good sense of it.

Also, no topic gets me more argument than this one. Believe me, I'm not saying applicants SHOULDN'T get clinical exposure before they start. I had tons when I applied, and I really think everyone should. The point that you are a PHYSICIAN-scientist is well taken. In your case at least with your parents being pathologists and you having alot of vet med experience, I think you can give good reasons for getting the MD.