Applying to Biomedical science Phd programs

[Opticalfuture]

Hello, I'm in undergrad and was wondering how competitive are these programs. What should I do to be a great candidate and have high chances getting accepted? (I'm involved in a new project in lab)

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[paradoxic_toxic]

High GPA, high GRE, high quality publications as the first author, posters, conferences, stellar LORs

 

[Opticalfuture]

High GPA, high GRE, high quality publications as the first author, posters, conferences, stellar LORs

how high is a good GPA? and how is the admission committee, like is it more holistic?

 

[paradoxic_toxic]

how high is a good GPA? and how is the admission committee, like is it more holistic?

In general 3.7 or higher. I haven't really heard of a PhD program with holistic review, but they probably exist.

Edit: missed a word.

 

[Opticalfuture]

In general 3.7 or higher. I haven't really heard of a PhD program with holistic, but they probably exist.

oh okay because I was told you have at least 3.5, and thye emphasis research, LORs, and your gpa (in that order) not so much numbers like med school

 

[paradoxic_toxic]

oh okay because I was told you have at least 3.5, and thye emphasis research, LORs, and your gpa (in that order) not so much numbers like med school

Yeah that seems right. Having 3.7 would keep you on the safe side.

 

[paradoxic_toxic]

I'm sure you can have some leeway with your GPA.

 

[Opticalfuture]

Yeah that seems right. Having 3.7 would keep you on the safe side.

alright thx

 

[keolu hills]

I have a PhD in Geophysics. It really depends on the program you are applying to. In my former program, it was impossible to get in without at least a 3.8 GPA. 2 GRE exams were required for admission. One for math and one for physics.

 

[Med Ed]

Hello, I'm in undergrad and was wondering how competitive are these programs. What should I do to be a great candidate and have high chances getting accepted? (I'm involved in a new project in lab)

There are tons of biomedical science PhD programs out there, and if you can fog a mirror then you can gain acceptance to some of them. They'll even waive your tuition and give you a stipend to live on. Which should tell you something about the job market for biomedical science PhDs.

 

[DNAJB6]

Hello, I'm in undergrad and was wondering how competitive are these programs. What should I do to be a great candidate and have high chances getting accepted? (I'm involved in a new project in lab)

When applying to PhD programs your research and any publications will matter as much or more than your GPA (as long as you're a reasonably decent student). Better yet if you have demonstrated interests related to one of the faculty members. Most top programs want 3.4-3.6 with competitive GRE scores; however, some schools are moving away from the GRE for some programs. I went to a top public school and know of people in that score range that were accepted to programs at MIT, Caltech, Yale, and WashU.

 

[DNAJB6]

There are tons of biomedical science PhD programs out there, and if you can fog a mirror then you can gain acceptance to some of them. They'll even waive your tuition and give you a stipend to live on. Which should tell you something about the job market for biomedical science PhDs.

The tuition waiver is largely because of government and grant funding combined with teaching stipends. On the other hand, you're right the job prospects suck because of an over saturation of advanced degree holders in the life science market.

 

[Opticalfuture]

When applying to PhD programs your research and any publications will matter as much or more than your GPA (as long as you're a reasonably decent student). Better yet if you have demonstrated interests related to one of the faculty members. Most top programs want 3.4-3.6 with competitive GRE scores; however, some schools are moving away from the GRE for some programs. I went to a top public school and know of people in that score range that were accepted to programs at MIT, Caltech, Yale, and WashU.

that's right because a lot of schools don't require the GRE, which I think is great because not everyone is good test takers. I belieive you shouldn't look at someone as numbers, but their interests and their dedication of the biomedical sciences. Those that's actually have a love for science.

 

[Opticalfuture]

There are tons of biomedical science PhD programs out there, and if you can fog a mirror then you can gain acceptance to some of them. They'll even waive your tuition and give you a stipend to live on. Which should tell you something about the job market for biomedical science PhDs.

most programs give you a stipend once accepted, unlike med school. They just probably need more scientists for medicine is evolving

 

[Med Ed]

The tuition waiver is largely because of government and grant funding combined with teaching stipends.

most programs give you a stipend once accepted, unlike med school.

Thank you both, but you may notice the word "Faculty" under my avatar.

They just probably need more scientists for medicine is evolving

Graduate programs need cheap, highly motivated labor, which is what grad students and postdocs provide.

 

[Opticalfuture]

The tuition waiver is largely because of government and grant funding combined with teaching stipends. On the other hand, you're right the job prospects suck because of an over saturation of advanced degree holders in the life science market.

to be honest I feel like anthing in health care/ health science is saturated. that's where is all the demand, we will always need lots of people.

 

[Opticalfuture]

Thank you both, but you may notice the word "Faculty" under my avatar.



Graduate programs need cheap, highly motivated labor, which is what grad students and postdocs provide.

but isn't that for only your first few years, since starting off new? wouldn't a doctorate degree be worth more?

 

[Med Ed]

but isn't that for only your first few years, since starting off new? wouldn't a doctorate degree be worth more?

I don't know what you are asking.

 

[Goro]

Thank you both, but you may notice the word "Faculty" under my avatar.



Graduate programs need cheap, highly motivated labor, which is what grad students and postdocs provide.

Good graduate students (and post docs) are hard to find....always have been.

Getting a faculty or industry job? Aye, there's the rub.

 

[Goro]

but isn't that for only your first few years, since starting off new? wouldn't a doctorate degree be worth more?

The job market for PhDs is so bad that I can't recommend this career pathway.

 

[deleted972488]

Biomedical PhD programs are not necessarily difficult to get into, but they are difficult to complete successfully.

You do not need publications to be accepted, even to top programs, but you'll need to demonstrate what you're getting into with plenty of research experience. However, I am afraid you may going into this with some misinformation and perhaps for the wrong reasons.

 

[Opticalfuture]

The job market for PhDs is so bad that I can't recommend this career pathway.

Isn't medicine saturated anyways, with all these new jobs?

 

[Opticalfuture]

Biomedical PhD programs are not necessarily difficult to get into, but they are difficult to complete successfully.

You do not need publications to be accepted, even to top programs, but you'll need to demonstrate what you're getting into with plenty of research experience. However, I am afraid you may going into this with some misinformation and perhaps for the wrong reasons.

actually no my PI in the lab informs me about this career path, and science is what I love.

 

[Opticalfuture]

I don't know what you are asking.

I was saying starting off new the salary will be low, but it will increase with experience.

 

[deleted972488]

Isn't medicine saturated anyways, with all these new jobs?

The problem is that we are producing far more PhDs than there are academic positions available for people with PhDs. Only something like 10% of PhDs will end up being a PI. It that’s what you’re hoping for, it’s an uphill battle. On the other hand, almost everyone who earns a US MD becomes an attending physician. There are other jobs for PhDs outside of academia, but they may or may not be worth the investment. That’s up for you to decide.

 

[Opticalfuture]

The problem is that we are producing far more PhDs than there are academic positions available for people with PhDs. Only something like 10% of PhDs will end up being a PI. It that’s what you’re hoping for, it’s an uphill battle. On the other hand, almost everyone who earns a US MD becomes an attending physician. There are other jobs for PhDs outside of academia, but they may or may not be worth the investment. That’s up for you to decide.

yes thank you, I'm not interested in teaching, I like being in the lab. Doing research/working in the lab is more what I wan,t so perhaps something industry, its not impossible. Nothing in life is easy, for example Med school its an uphill battle to finish and even afterwards residency is super hard. But it will be worth it to do what you love.

 

[Opticalfuture]

Good graduate students (and post docs) are hard to find....always have been.

Getting a faculty or industry job? Aye, there's the rub.

what do you mean" there's the rub?"

 

[deleted972488]

what do you mean" there's the rub?"

Easier said than done.

 

[Opticalfuture]

Easier said than done.

oh okay

 

[Goro]

what do you mean" there's the rub?"

Google is your friend

 

[Goro]

Isn't medicine saturated anyways, with all these new jobs?

Nope

 

[Opticalfuture]

Google is your friend

Never seen anything used that term before lol

 

[Goro]

The problem is that we are producing far more PhDs than there are academic positions available for people with PhDs. Only something like 10% of PhDs will end up being a PI. It that’s what you’re hoping for, it’s an uphill battle. On the other hand, almost everyone who earns a US MD becomes an attending physician. There are other jobs for PhDs olooputside of academia, but they may or may not be worth the investment. That’s up for you to decide.

In addition to this. We also import a lot of PhDs, who end up staying here and end up competing with the Homegrown phds as well.

 

[Opticalfuture]

In addition to this. We also import a lot of PhDs, who end up staying here and end up competing with the Homegrown phds as well.

who knows we don't know the future, the job market could change.

 

[Med Ed]

I was saying starting off new the salary will be low, but it will increase with experience.

New college graduate, age 22, starts a PhD program with a 30K stipend. Graduates at age 28 making 34K. Takes postdoc making 55K, finishes at age 31 making 58K. Now the big decision: second postdoc, search for academic research job (tenure-track or non-tenure-track), search for industry job, try teaching route (small 4-year college), or get out entirely, perhaps with other degree program (e.g. JD, MBA, etc.). Oh, and to get any of those to work out you have to beat out a gymnasium-full of other candidates with similar qualifications.

Suffice to say it's a great way to find yourself in your 30's with few assets, little stability, and limited prospects.

who knows we don't know the future, the job market could change.

The job market for biomedical PhDs has indeed changed over the years. It has steadily gotten worse with no end in sight.

 

[Opticalfuture]

New college graduate, age 22, starts a PhD program with a 30K stipend. Graduates at age 28 making 34K. Takes postdoc making 55K, finishes at age 31 making 58K. Now the big decision: second postdoc, search for academic research job (tenure-track or non-tenure-track), search for industry job, try teaching route (small 4-year college), or get out entirely, perhaps with other degree program (e.g. JD, MBA, etc.). Oh, and to get any of those to work out you have to beat out a gymnasium-full of other candidates with similar qualifications.

Suffice to say it's a great way to find yourself in your 30's with few assets, little stability, and limited prospects.



The job market for biomedical PhDs has indeed changed over the years. It has steadily gotten worse with no end in sight.

what about neuroscience or molecular biology?

 

[APA 32]

The job market for PhDs is so bad that I can't recommend this career pathway.

I would say pursuing a PhD was the biggest mistake of my professional life

 

[Opticalfuture]

I would say pursuing a PhD was the biggest mistake of my professional life

what did you get it in and what was it like?

 

[APA 32]

what did you get it in and what was it like?

Biochemistry and molecular biology. Almost 6 years of banging my head against the wall is how I would describe it.

 

[keolu hills]

The job market for PhDs is so bad that I can't recommend this career pathway.

Unl

New college graduate, age 22, starts a PhD program with a 30K stipend. Graduates at age 28 making 34K. Takes postdoc making 55K, finishes at age 31 making 58K. Now the big decision: second postdoc, search for academic research job (tenure-track or non-tenure-track), search for industry job, try teaching route (small 4-year college), or get out entirely, perhaps with other degree program (e.g. JD, MBA, etc.). Oh, and to get any of those to work out you have to beat out a gymnasium-full of other candidates with similar qualifications.

Suffice to say it's a great way to find yourself in your 30's with few assets, little stability, and limited prospects.



The job market for biomedical PhDs has indeed changed over the years. It has steadily gotten worse with no end in sight.

This has been the case where I am since the nineties. I knew a tenured professor who discouraged everyone interested in a biomedical science PhD because of the poor job market. One has to be willing to teach at a four year college or a community college. That was the case for physics too.

 

[Opticalfuture]

Unl

This has been the case where I am since the nineties. I knew a tenured professor who discouraged everyone interested in a biomedical science PhD because of the poor job market. One has to be willing to teach at a four year college or a community college. That was the case for physics too.

would you recommend a Phd in other biological scices, because I really want to get my doctorate degree in the sciences.

 

[keolu hills]

would you recommend a Phd in other biological scices, because I really want to get my doctorate degree in the sciences.

What about getting a doctorate in Agronomy and Soil Science or Agriculture? This field is growing. It has been since 2018. They use a lot of biochemistry etc.

 

[Goro]

would you recommend a Phd in other biological scices, because I really want to get my doctorate degree in the sciences.

What we're trying to ask you is "do you really want to be a professional post-doc, looking for a new job every 305 years, or be unemployed in your 30s"?

I can see that your mind is made up on this, so go ahead and apply to grad school.

 

[Goro]

What about getting a doctorate in Agronomy and Soil Science or Agriculture? This field is growing. It has been since 2018. They use a lot of biochemistry etc.

Get an MS. You can accomplish the goals, with a better future.

 

[keolu hills]

FYI: Now just with a degree in a science, you can work as a Forensic Scientist. Your degree does not have to be in Forensic science to do so. I do know a couple of people with the agronomy and soil science degree doing that. Before I entered medical school, I considered doing that.

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

New college graduate, age 22, starts a PhD program with a 30K stipend. Graduates at age 28 making 34K. Takes postdoc making 55K, finishes at age 31 making 58K. Now the big decision: second postdoc, search for academic research job (tenure-track or non-tenure-track), search for industry job, try teaching route (small 4-year college), or get out entirely, perhaps with other degree program (e.g. JD, MBA, etc.). Oh, and to get any of those to work out you have to beat out a gymnasium-full of other candidates with similar qualifications.

Suffice to say it's a great way to find yourself in your 30's with few assets, little stability, and limited prospects.



The job market for biomedical PhDs has indeed changed over the years. It has steadily gotten worse with no end in sight.

Just 3 years for a postdoc? Most people I know seem to be doing more like 5, minimum. One of the faculty my department just hired spent >10 years as a postdoc, and at an extremely prestigious institution/lab. He did make the choice that you described here of doing multiple postdocs, but I'm commenting more to reinforce your point that the job market is quite horrible. Someone with a chemistry PhD who got hired as faculty at my UG shortly before I graduated told me that he was offered 32k stipend to stay at Berkeley for a postdoc. They justified the 32k by offering subsidized housing with the affordable price of >2k/month rent, and he had a wife and 2 kids that he was supporting. He did not take that offer.

I agree with other people that you should really be sure of the risks involved before pursuing a PhD in the biomedical sciences. Even if you manage to get a tenure track job, you still have to spend inordinate amounts of time outside of the lab writing grants and trying to figure out how to align your research interests and expertise with the interests of those who have money to pay for your research–and your salary. Most academic positions will only pay you a portion of your salary (and I spoke with someone yesterday who described being at an institution where the department didn't pay any of their salary!), so you can suddenly find yourself making a fraction of what you were making before if your grant funding runs out.

I obviously still chose to pursue a PhD, but I'm well aware of the extreme difficulty in succeeding in that career path. In my case, though, the absolute worst case scenario is that I work private practice as an MD. I've met a few MD/PhDs who ended up going that route (or doing academics for a few years before getting fed up with it/losing funding), and none of them regretted getting a PhD, though again they did it through the MSTP pathway.

I would be cautious in pursuing "just" a PhD in the biomedical sciences without having something to fall back on.

 

[Med Ed]

Just 3 years for a postdoc? Most people I know seem to be doing more like 5, minimum.

Three seems to be the point where many make a decision about going forward, and indeed the numbers are all over the map. The shortest PhD I've seen has been 3 years, the longest 11. Overall attrition somewhere in the neighborhood of 50%. I've seen postdocs go on for 3, 5, 7 years or more. An acquaintance got his PhD in neuroscience and stayed in his postdoc lab long enough to reach the level of "research scientist" (read permanent postdoc). He's been there almost 20 years now.

If you like being in the lab and have no dependents or hope for retirement it may not be a bad gig.

 

[Opticalfuture]

What about getting a doctorate in Agronomy and Soil Science or Agriculture? This field is growing. It has been since 2018. They use a lot of biochemistry etc.

I'm not interested in agriculture

 

[Opticalfuture]

Just 3 years for a postdoc? Most people I know seem to be doing more like 5, minimum. One of the faculty my department just hired spent >10 years as a postdoc, and at an extremely prestigious institution/lab. He did make the choice that you described here of doing multiple postdocs, but I'm commenting more to reinforce your point that the job market is quite horrible. Someone with a chemistry PhD who got hired as faculty at my UG shortly before I graduated told me that he was offered 32k stipend to stay at Berkeley for a postdoc. They justified the 32k by offering subsidized housing with the affordable price of >2k/month rent, and he had a wife and 2 kids that he was supporting. He did not take that offer.

I agree with other people that you should really be sure of the risks involved before pursuing a PhD in the biomedical sciences. Even if you manage to get a tenure track job, you still have to spend inordinate amounts of time outside of the lab writing grants and trying to figure out how to align your research interests and expertise with the interests of those who have money to pay for your research–and your salary. Most academic positions will only pay you a portion of your salary (and I spoke with someone yesterday who described being at an institution where the department didn't pay any of their salary!), so you can suddenly find yourself making a fraction of what you were making before if your grant funding runs out.

I obviously still chose to pursue a PhD, but I'm well aware of the extreme difficulty in succeeding in that career path. In my case, though, the absolute worst case scenario is that I work private practice as an MD. I've met a few MD/PhDs who ended up going that route (or doing academics for a few years before getting fed up with it/losing funding), and none of them regretted getting a PhD, though again they did it through the MSTP pathway.

I would be cautious in pursuing "just" a PhD in the biomedical sciences without having something to fall back on.

yes thank you for writing this I am now aware, I am for n sure thinking of a side career to fall back on. Are you still in grad school, and what was the process like?

 

[Choсolate]

Get an MS. You can accomplish the goals, with a better future.

I apologize for reviving a quiet thread. However, this topic I believe is still very relevant to anyone who finds themselves in the same situation. I just wanted to ask, do you actually know that there are better job prospects with an M.S. in Biomedical Science? Can you please elaborate on why this is so? I was planning on obtaining my graduate degree in the Biomedical sciences