Applying to Derm As MD/PhD- how competitive?

[tubeofbread]

Hey all,

Checked the search and couldn't find any great answers so thought I'd ask here. In the midst of shaping my PhD research and really just trying to see how derm looks at MD/PhD and how competitive I'd be in derm vis a vis the internal medicine based specialties to try to shape my PhD (which may take a slightly derm related bent).

My stats- MD/PhD at a top school (harvard, hopkins, stanford type)
249 step 1


Would love to hear anyones perspectives on how MD/PhD affects derm and how much which med school you attend matters for derm as I've read mixed things. I'd ideally like to stay at a large research type school and wanted to see how tough getting into academic derm at a big school would be with my current background as my step score is decent, but not great.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MilkIsGood]

derm programs love md/phds

 

[A$AP]

going to a big name med school is a huge plus for derm. being md/pdh is also great. your step score is decent as you said, it'll prolly gonna be among the lowest scores of derm applicants but it should past most cutoffs/filters. with the first two mentioned factors you're on a solid path. as for matching at a top/big name derm program, lol that's impossible to say

 

[mw18]

going to a big name med school is a huge plus for derm. being md/pdh is also great. your step score is decent as you said, it'll prolly gonna be among the lowest scores of derm applicants but it should past most cutoffs/filters. with the first two mentioned factors you're on a solid path. as for matching at a top/big name derm program, lol that's impossible to say

The median derm score for matching applicants was 249 in 2016. That may have crept a little by now and a little more by the time OP applies after a PhD, but for right now it would not be in the lower scores of applicants. It would be better than more than half of applicants and half of those who matched.

 

[A$AP]

The median derm score for matching applicants was 249 in 2016. That may have crept a little by now and a little more by the time OP applies after a PhD, but for right now it would not be in the lower scores of applicants. It would be better than more than half of applicants and half of those who matched.

It has definitely crept up over the past couple years. You are correct in your direct argument to my point. But 2 points to address regarding what you're saying. First, it's easy to look at a quoted number as the average and think "ok, half the people scored less than this." It is a pretty well-known idea at this point that most/almost all programs screen out step 1s <240. And when people with 260+ go unmatched each year, a 240s score is already an uphill battle, with people who match likely having other standout factors like OP does. What i'm saying is if the avg is, say 252 now, then the lower half are probably pretty still pretty darn close to the number, not like spread out in the 220-250 range. Sure "better than more the half the applicants" is by definition true but when that's a 249 vs a 246 who cares. Second, my purpose in bringing that up was to address OP's calling his/her score "decent" and to highlight that he/she has some other well-endowed aspects of their application to keep them in good shape. Ask literally any PD, chair, if a student comes up to them with a 249 step 1, and everything else solid on their application at first glance (solid grades, some research, great comments) from a non-top school and no other stand-out factors, they will tell them that that applicant will struggle, and that there is very possible (if not high) chance he/she will go unmatched. It's the unfortunate truth in a field as small as derm and the rising competitiveness across the board

 

[Skindoc83]

As someone who reviewed all of the mohs applicants for my mohs program back when I was a fellow. Most programs do NOT have a 230, 240, or whatever cut off. I remember one applicant had under 200. She was a third year resident at an ACGME accredited fellowship. Too many applicants psyche themselves out over board scores. If you want it then apply, just have a back up

 

[A$AP]

As someone who reviewed all of the mohs applicants for my mohs program back when I was a fellow. Most programs do NOT have a 230, 240, or whatever cut off. I remember one applicant had under 200. She was a third year resident at an ACGME accredited fellowship. Too many applicants psyche themselves out over board scores. If you want it then apply, just have a back up

This is the first time I have heard this. The cut-off idea seems to be the general consensus everywhere I have sought info from (past applicants, current faculty, data, online) - I know 2 PDs quite well (I'm an M4 student applying and we have a good relationship) and they've both told me that the vast majority of programs have a cut-off, ranging from "ehh probably not but we'll still read their app" to "every app below this number will not be opened." Nonetheless, you obviously are qualified to give an answer to this so my feedback for future applicants can be taken as just one person's feedback and not as any sort of absolute (I did not intend it as that anyway). To note though, I would definitely challenge the notion of simply "if you want it then apply." If you really really want it and can't see yourself anywhere else, absolutely, take your shot. But regardless of the specific backup plan, failing to match causes a ton of issues moving forward, and applying to multiple specialties in a single match has its drawbacks. I do still maintain my stance (though of course it's not absolute) that applicants falling below the standards alluded to would be advised by any knowledgeable dermatologist to think very hard about applying, and for good reason

 

[ERDOC555]

As someone who reviewed all of the mohs applicants for my mohs program back when I was a fellow. Most programs do NOT have a 230, 240, or whatever cut off. I remember one applicant had under 200. She was a third year resident at an ACGME accredited fellowship. Too many applicants psyche themselves out over board scores. If you want it then apply, just have a back up

Very interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. Something to consider too is that there has been a large Step 1 score inflation back when 220 was the mean and a 240 was competitive for anything, so dermatologists that have finished residency in the last couple years with 240s are likely the equivalent to the med students who are applying with 250s today.

For what it's worth, almost every low stat applicant I've encountered (and I've probably met a half dozen or so) that matched derm/ortho/plastics/neuro/other competitive specialties have matched at their home program or had "connections" with people at specific programs and got their spots through other mechanisms.

They all got like 2-4 interviews total (basically just home and aways) and then matched at the program that they already knew was taking them when they chose to apply. Regular people with low step scores don't just match dermatology without "other" factors.

21 people matched dermatology with sub 230 scores in 2016 (that's roughly 4% of all dermatology spots going to these applicants), and I'd hedge my bets that each of them had very strong connections to where they matched.

At the end of the day it's hard to believe PDs would use their limited interview slots on students with such a low step score when they're already turning down great applicants with great step scores. Why would a program interview an applicant below 240 when they can interview 10 identical applicants with the same or better CV with 250+? There's no benefit to recruiting low stats applicants unless you already know them personally and like them. Not to mention that even breaking a 240 isn't very challenging with a little effort (1/3 of MD students will be at 240+, which is only 67th percentile).

We like to think of dermatology as a meritocracy, and while for 90% of applicant's it is, there's also a narrow backdoor available for those who may be lacking in merit but have the connections, and for every one of those individuals that's one more hardworking applicant whose dreams get crushed.

EDIT: An amazing CV/Research/PhD can likely compensate for lower scores as well.