Applying to fellowship as a seasoned attending

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Powdermonkey

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As stated, I'm planning on applying for a fellowship next year as an EM attending that has been in community practice for almost a decade now. The point of this post is to get advice on application details from any of you folks that have done this while NOT in residency. Specifically:

-Who do I get LORs from since I'm not in training anymore? Will my department chair and maybe PR director suffice? I'm planning an away/audition rotation or two for a specialty specific LOR as well.

-If I'm going to be doing away/audition rotations, how do I go about getting malpractice coverage where I am rotating?

-I'm not sure it would be much different, but as a BC provider, will my prescribing be different for meds since I'm back in a training program?

-I'm not current on ACLS/PALS/ATLS since my state/hospital doesn't require that of us while board certified and practicing at a level 2 trauma center. I'm re-certifying ATLS in a few months (annoying, 2 days), and will be getting my ACLS and PALS updated, too. Is there anything else a program might want to see as far as certs?

-I'm getting some specialty specific exposure and experience, but are there things a fellowship director looks for in a more experienced provider coming back for training vs a resident fresh out?


Thanks in advance. I didn't have luck finding answers to these questions searching or scouring the internet, hence me being here.

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I'm currently doing an interventional pain fellowship after 7 years as an EM attending.

-Who do I get LORs from since I'm not in training anymore? Will my department chair and maybe PR director suffice? I'm planning an away/audition rotation or two for a specialty specific LOR as well.
I got a letter from the chief of my ED, the chief of EM for my entire hospital system and from a pain doc. I did not do any formal rotation. I cold called one of the pain docs at the hospital I worked at in the ED. He offered to chat with me and let me hang out in clinic for a few days when I wasn't working, and shadow him in the OR and procedure suite for a few days.

-If I'm going to be doing away/audition rotations, how do I go about getting malpractice coverage where I am rotating?
-Do you already have rotations lined up? If so, you should ask those programs about malpractice. If you don't already have them lined up, ask your current malpractice carrier if they do short term trainee malpractice policies and if not, if they can refer you to someone who does.

That said, I never did this. As I mentioned above, I never did a formal rotation which obviated this concern.

-I'm not sure it would be much different, but as a BC provider, will my prescribing be different for meds since I'm back in a training program?
I have my own DEA, however, the program also provided me one as a trainee. In the end, it doesn't really matter. I've had to use both for various technical issues during the first month and it made no difference.

-I'm not current on ACLS/PALS/ATLS since my state/hospital doesn't require that of us while board certified and practicing at a level 2 trauma center. I'm re-certifying ATLS in a few months (annoying, 2 days), and will be getting my ACLS and PALS updated, too. Is there anything else a program might want to see as far as certs?

No program cares about ACLS/PALS/whatever as a prerequisite to hiring you. If they require it, you can just do it in the first week of fellowship or immediately before you start. Don't waste your time doing this crap now unless specifically asked to do so.

-I'm getting some specialty specific exposure and experience, but are there things a fellowship director looks for in a more experienced provider coming back for training vs a resident fresh out?

Why do you want to go into fellowship? If your answer is "I'm fried in EM and need to get out" you're going to need to do better and have a compelling reason. Being an attending for a while was a pro in the eyes of my PD. He knew I could see people quickly and already had good technical skills which could be adapted to new procedures. Being able to spin that as a positive while simultaneously keeping from complaining about EM is probably a good move (worked for me anyway).
 
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What speciality tho
Sports Medicine. My wife and I have been talking about this, and I've been considering it since I was in residency. The timing was always off, though. Between moves, getting married, surgeries, life and family shenanigans, etc., I never felt like I was stable enough to even consider something like this - until now. My wife has been quite supportive and has been a great sounding board over the past year while I've been researching and trying to line up my plans. My loans are getting close to being paid off, and should be by the time I start a fellowship, and the money won't be an issue for us (DINKWADs). This is more about career longevity and finding a practice where I can hustle if I want, but the cortisol will be much lower. Taking my health history and home life into account is something I wasn't banking on as a mid 20s goon choosing a specialty in med school. I think a lot of folks would enjoy this kind of switch as well, but with kids, family, bills, etc it's hard to consider leaving the pay in the ED.
I got a letter from the chief of my ED, the chief of EM for my entire hospital system and from a pain doc. I did not do any formal rotation. I cold called one of the pain docs at the hospital I worked at in the ED. He offered to chat with me and let me hang out in clinic for a few days when I wasn't working, and shadow him in the OR and procedure suite for a few days.


-Do you already have rotations lined up? If so, you should ask those programs about malpractice. If you don't already have them lined up, ask your current malpractice carrier if they do short term trainee malpractice policies and if not, if they can refer you to someone who does.

That said, I never did this. As I mentioned above, I never did a formal rotation which obviated this concern.


I have my own DEA, however, the program also provided me one as a trainee. In the end, it doesn't really matter. I've had to use both for various technical issues during the first month and it made no difference.



No program cares about ACLS/PALS/whatever as a prerequisite to hiring you. If they require it, you can just do it in the first week of fellowship or immediately before you start. Don't waste your time doing this crap now unless specifically asked to do so.



Why do you want to go into fellowship? If your answer is "I'm fried in EM and need to get out" you're going to need to do better and have a compelling reason. Being an attending for a while was a pro in the eyes of my PD. He knew I could see people quickly and already had good technical skills which could be adapted to new procedures. Being able to spin that as a positive while simultaneously keeping from complaining about EM is probably a good move (worked for me anyway).
Good info, thanks. I'm going to an ultrasound conference later this month with one of the local programs, so I can try and pick their brains there, too. I've been doing pre participation physicals this year, I've shadowed in a local Sports clinic with ties to a D1 NCAA team, and I've been shadowing with the local ortho at our local smaller college games. I'm also planning on going to the national meeting next year for the fellowship/residency fair. It may be too much/overkill, but that allows me to really get a feel for what I'm getting into as well.

As I mentioned above, this hasn't been a snap decision for me. I probably could have applied this year, but it would have been rushed, and I don't think it was the right time, even considering taking another year to apply/start a program. I am interested in concussion care and protocols, I like the idea of injections and US guided procedures, and MSK complaints are interesting to me. I have always liked event medicine, and covering teams is a bonus for me, even the small ones. I want to see healthier people and help them get over their acute issue before it becomes more chronic and life altering. I have a nutrition/fitness interest as well due to a personal journey, but that's probably enough for here.

I'm looking forward to being able to spend week nights at home with my wife and dogs, and not working evenings and nights. I'm looking forward to being off holidays and weekends. I'm looking forward to a different patient population. I'm aware of the metabolic syndrome folks with shoulder, hip, and knee problems that will be filling a clinic potentially. There are just as many weekend warriors and local high school and college students that need help, too. The stress is much less in a clinic, people and kids arent coming in to you dead, you arent seeing multiple sexual assault cases in a shift (hopefully). There is a feeling thag you can dictate more of what you actually do or don't do for them vs being ordered around for press gaineys in the ED with patients pulling demands from the Burger King menu and expecting it at Amazon Prime speed.

I know the grass is greener, clinic is boring, much slower pace, the pathology is less, it's not as 'exciting', ... but I'm OK with that. And at the end of the day I'll still be an EM doc who can work urgent care or critical access if the need arises or if I'm just itching for some lines and tubes. But I'm happy with my current trajectory. The ED has been grinding on me, and it is getting harder and harder to keep putting it back together as the months and years tick on.

YMMV.
 
Sports Medicine. My wife and I have been talking about this, and I've been considering it since I was in residency. The timing was always off, though. Between moves, getting married, surgeries, life and family shenanigans, etc., I never felt like I was stable enough to even consider something like this - until now. My wife has been quite supportive and has been a great sounding board over the past year while I've been researching and trying to line up my plans. My loans are getting close to being paid off, and should be by the time I start a fellowship, and the money won't be an issue for us (DINKWADs). This is more about career longevity and finding a practice where I can hustle if I want, but the cortisol will be much lower. Taking my health history and home life into account is something I wasn't banking on as a mid 20s goon choosing a specialty in med school. I think a lot of folks would enjoy this kind of switch as well, but with kids, family, bills, etc it's hard to consider leaving the pay in the ED.

Good info, thanks. I'm going to an ultrasound conference later this month with one of the local programs, so I can try and pick their brains there, too. I've been doing pre participation physicals this year, I've shadowed in a local Sports clinic with ties to a D1 NCAA team, and I've been shadowing with the local ortho at our local smaller college games. I'm also planning on going to the national meeting next year for the fellowship/residency fair. It may be too much/overkill, but that allows me to really get a feel for what I'm getting into as well.

As I mentioned above, this hasn't been a snap decision for me. I probably could have applied this year, but it would have been rushed, and I don't think it was the right time, even considering taking another year to apply/start a program. I am interested in concussion care and protocols, I like the idea of injections and US guided procedures, and MSK complaints are interesting to me. I have always liked event medicine, and covering teams is a bonus for me, even the small ones. I want to see healthier people and help them get over their acute issue before it becomes more chronic and life altering. I have a nutrition/fitness interest as well due to a personal journey, but that's probably enough for here.

I'm looking forward to being able to spend week nights at home with my wife and dogs, and not working evenings and nights. I'm looking forward to being off holidays and weekends. I'm looking forward to a different patient population. I'm aware of the metabolic syndrome folks with shoulder, hip, and knee problems that will be filling a clinic potentially. There are just as many weekend warriors and local high school and college students that need help, too. The stress is much less in a clinic, people and kids arent coming in to you dead, you arent seeing multiple sexual assault cases in a shift (hopefully). There is a feeling thag you can dictate more of what you actually do or don't do for them vs being ordered around for press gaineys in the ED with patients pulling demands from the Burger King menu and expecting it at Amazon Prime speed.

I know the grass is greener, clinic is boring, much slower pace, the pathology is less, it's not as 'exciting', ... but I'm OK with that. And at the end of the day I'll still be an EM doc who can work urgent care or critical access if the need arises or if I'm just itching for some lines and tubes. But I'm happy with my current trajectory. The ED has been grinding on me, and it is getting harder and harder to keep putting it back together as the months and years tick on.

YMMV.
Thank you for introducing me to the term DINKWAD.
 
More than a decade of experience before CCM. All of my LORs came from intensivists that I had worked with (both research and clinically) over the years. I can’t speak to “away rotations” because I never did any and can’t imagine how that would work once you graduate from medical school. That is to say, most residents don’t do away rotations as auditions for fellowship like students do for residency. My recommendation is that you hook up with attendings in your future speciality at your current institution and ask to join them on rounds, get involved in their research or admin work, etc. Some fellowships will require CPR and ACLS. Mine did (had to be done before starting) and I had to take refresher courses - cost of doing business.

Honestly, most fellowship directors will be trying to determine if your are leaving EM because to are simply burned out and running from your problems. You will need to come up with a compelling story as to why you belong and leaving your speciality. Any whiff that you are burned out of EM will be a problem with most reputable places. That’s because physicians who think that fleeing EM to another speciality will fix their burnout are wrong - their issues persist because they’re unhappy with much more than just their speciality.
 
More than a decade of experience before CCM. All of my LORs came from intensivists that I had worked with (both research and clinically) over the years. I can’t speak to “away rotations” because I never did any and can’t imagine how that would work once you graduate from medical school. That is to say, most residents don’t do away rotations as auditions for fellowship like students do for residency. My recommendation is that you hook up with attendings in your future speciality at your current institution and ask to join them on rounds, get involved in their research or admin work, etc. Some fellowships will require CPR and ACLS. Mine did (had to be done before starting) and I had to take refresher courses - cost of doing business.

Honestly, most fellowship directors will be trying to determine if your are leaving EM because to are simply burned out and running from your problems. You will need to come up with a compelling story as to why you belong and leaving your speciality. Any whiff that you are burned out of EM will be a problem with most reputable places. That’s because physicians who think that fleeing EM to another speciality will fix their burnout are wrong - their issues persist because they’re unhappy with much more than just their speciality.
That is why my program in particular only takes fellows right out of residency training. The resident usually did an elective or had a rotation on our service and fell in love with that type of medicine. How an attending grinding in their primary specialty can suddenly develop a "passion" for a completely distinct type of medicine doesn't make any sense, therefore a compelling story is unquestionably necessary.
 
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Have you looked into the sports med job market to ensure this is a viable plan?
 
Have you looked into the sports med job market to ensure this is a viable plan?
I have. One of the first docs I talked to was with the local private practice ortho group who left for a job with an NCAA D1 relationship practice in another town. I've talked to them and spent time with those guys on the fields, so I think at least locally there are job opportunities. Quite a few semi locally as well with a commute. My wife and I are considering relocating closer to her family once this is over, and I know there are jobs there with a few different groups. Nothing signed or slam dunk, but yes, there are options. At the end of the day or worst case scenario, I'm still an ED doc and can work at the smaller local places, locums, or UC near us until I find a clinic job I can work at. That wouldn't be ideal, but it'll pay the bills.
 
.... I can’t speak to “away rotations” because I never did any and can’t imagine how that would work once you graduate from medical school. That is to say, most residents don’t do away rotations as auditions for fellowship like students do for residency. My recommendation is that you hook up with attendings in your future specialty at your current institution and ask to join them on rounds, get involved in their research or admin work, etc. ...
I'm working on that, and quietly trying to build relationships with these folks. I'll be asking for LORs in the spring from a few key folks at work, but otherwise I don't want to broadcast to the group yet that I might be leaving, or at least not until it's more of a done deal.

Honestly, most fellowship directors will be trying to determine if your are leaving EM because to are simply burned out and running from your problems. You will need to come up with a compelling story as to why you belong and leaving your specialty. Any whiff that you are burned out of EM will be a problem with most reputable places. That’s because physicians who think that fleeing EM to another specialty will fix their burnout are wrong - their issues persist because they’re unhappy with much more than just their specialty.

That is why my program in particular only takes fellows right out of residency training. The resident usually did an elective or had a rotation on our service and fell in love with that type of medicine. How an attending grinding in their primary specialty can suddenly develop a "passion" for a completely distinct type of medicine doesn't make any sense, therefore a compelling story is unquestionably necessary.

(I'll attempt a TL;DR summary, more details below if you're bored )... [I started into medicine because of an MSK type background and interest. I miss the MSK focused complaints. Work in the ED is exhausting and stressful, and I don't see it getting much better in the next few decades. While I still have the energy and ability, I'm planning a thoughtful exit from the ED and stepping aside to a new path that is more clinic based, likely with less stress. I'm looking for a practice that I can age in, and not regularly get mentally and physically beaten up while at work. My health and wellbeing outside of work is now more important to me than being the flashy trauma resuscitationist that I wanted to be in residency.]


Both of these are excellent points. This is part of the reason that I've been taking a longer road to apply, instead of rushing into it this year. Trying to get all my ducks in a row, so to speak. It's also given me plenty of down time to think about why I'm doing this and to make sure I'm not just running from problems. I know you guys don't need an explanation, but I think writing it out might help me organize my thoughts. Feel free to help me focus these ramblings if you so choose.

I came to medicine from a math based field after joining the ski patrol and taking their medical course. I was fascinated by the anatomy and physiology, and to be completely honest, the days where we were seeing multiple ortho injuries (frequent at a small local place with inexperienced "skiers") were some of my favorite days. I'd always been active, but finally getting to learn how to take care of injuries I had seen or suffered was what tipped me over to switching into a medical direction. Most of my peers were medics or firefighters, so naturally they always talked up EM. I had a job as a tech for a while that felt right, and I wanted to be like the docs I was working with. Fast forward to 3rd and 4th year of school, and my draw to EM was still there. I had multiple audition rotations that all felt right/good, and although I enjoyed my surgical rotations, I just had blinders on for EM. I didn't really have any great peers to discuss options at that point, but I felt like I was making the right call as a mid 20s medical student who knows nothing.

My draw to EM included the schedule and scheduling possibilities, working about a third of the month, and lots of "free time" for travel and recreation. I really liked the idea of no call and not having a long term longitudinal clinic like in family medicine. To be clear, I have a great job at the moment, I've made partner, we have a supportive hospital and nursing administration that works closely with us for staffing and throughput, and our admin team is pretty rock solid. It's a good gig. And the pay is good.

But. Some of those same things have started to make me reconsider another 20-30 years (who gets to retire anymore these days?) in this style of practice.
- The build up of chronic fatigue from all of the switching was making me miserable. We have more than a dozen shifts each day where I work. Initially I fixed the chaos of the constantly rotating and unpredictable schedule by going to full time nights. I set my own schedule and can write my ticket as far as work goes. It's what has kept me sane over the last few years. I have a pretty set group of nurses that I work with regularly who trust me and I trust them. It has made my practice so much more tolerable. I never thought that I would enjoy a set schedule, but getting on a good gym rotation, better food rotation and a predictable schedule for my wife has been life changing. I regularly sleep 8-10 hours between shifts, and I also am a night owl, so nights work for me. What can I say? The trade off is, well, nights. My wife and I are on opposite schedules a few days a week, but we do get days off together regularly. While I typically only work 3 days a week, I lose the first post shift day to either sleep or because I'm so tired I can't do much if I stay up. Which is basically four days of my week. two full free days, and then the last free day I lose the evening napping before my next shift. Again, it's crazy, but it's been working for me. I'm consistent at the gym and with meal prep, house chores are getting done, and the wife is definitely happier this way since I'm so much more tolerable and less grumpy, despite me being gone a few nights a week.
- While we have a flexible schedule, not really having sick days or PTO makes travel tough. You might get 2 or three weeks over if you can split it over two months, but you pay for it an get wrecked while working your full time shifts crammed into 15-18 days for two months straight. We did that multiple times the first two or three years for big trips, and it was rough.
- You don't have to have a "practice" or clinic, and you don't have to search for patients. They find you. Again, and again. Some shifts are fine, others we get crushed and have 20-50 in the waiting room all night long. Those shifts suck. Post COVID has also had more of those type of shifts for our ED. It's mentally and emotionally exhausting. The idea that every shift was different, and no presentation is the same that was alluring at the outset, has become tedious and more stressful as it goes on. I LOVE the pathophys and medicine related to a sick, crashing patient that needs resuscitation and interventions. Having a set list in a clinic and working through you day that way? I don't hate the idea. I don't know why med student and resident me was so against it.
- Another thing I've found is that I like doing some crazy stuff like skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, mountain climbing, hiking... you get the picture. EM has me so prepped for craziness all the time that I've been finding it more difficult to get as excited about those things the past few years. It's like my adrenaline and cortisol is used up at work, and I don't have enough to spread around for the recreational activities.
- As I mentioned above, I've finally felt stable in my practice over the past 2-3 years, and I've been able to entertain thoughts of what else I might do, or if EM is what is right for me. Talking to a few of my trainers at the gym and with med school buddies, I've realized how much I miss the MSK medicine. I want to work with people who want to get better, and are willing to take steps to make that happen, vs just walking in and expecting a pill and a miracle. I know that will happen in clinic, but I also don't have to continue seeing those patients. I want to work with athletes. I enjoy splinting, US procedures, and from what I saw on my shadowing in the clinic, I like the pathology.

I went to DO school because I really like the musculoskeletal medicine. And I still do. EM is flashy and drew me in. I wanted to be the doctor that people look to in a time of emergency or crisis to help, to stabilize, to control the situation. I feel like EM residency prepared me well for that, and I've made a great practice getting to do that. But I'm missing things and looking to the future, I can't see myself wanting to stay at this pace, in this environment for the next few decades. Does that mean I'm burned out? I hope not. I don't feel crispy/crunchy. I'm sure I have my days, but who doesn't after a rough shift? I still feel empathy for my patients, and I get a kick out of talking to some of them. I get flack from some of the nurses and more crusty partners for being a softy and letting the homeless folks hang out with us overnight instead of kicking them back out into the weather, as long as they are nice and respectful to the staff. I sit and talk to my patients regularly and probably spend way too much time at the bedside. But I'm ok with that, and it's what keeps me coming back for more shifts. I love the true emergency medicine, but the pace and constant push for more, More, MORE without real control over the pace or patient population is what's getting to me, I think.

I don't feel like I'm running. I've evaluated my options and my current mental/physical/emotional state, and I'm looking for a different type of practice. I see it more as a step to the side onto a new trail from where I am on my hike up the mountain. I think sports medicine will afford me that. It's not something that I realized would interest me or that I wanted to pursue in residency, but my life was different then. The idea of leaving trauma and crashing patients was demoralizing and the thought of clinic life as a 20 something made me nothing but bored. As I've matured, things have changed. I'm also contemplating my long term health and longevity at being able to practice medicine in a style that will let me continue well into the years without breaking me mentally and physically. Money isn't my driving factor. Insurance isn't my driving factor. Working at a smaller ED or at an Urgent Care is an option, but that feels like so much of the same-same, just on a smaller scale. So while that may help for a while, I don't think that's a good option for me long term.

I like the clinic mix of new/urgent and focused visits, procedures, splinting, some light urgent care for athletes or select patients, and working with athletes and active folks in general. I know there will be some metabolic syndrome patients with chronic hip and knee pain as well, but they typically feel better with injections, so they are happy. Or if you can't help them, they don't need more appointments. I have an interest in a few different topics and complaints that I can focus on and gear my clinic towards possibly. At the end of the day it will still be a job. But, I'll get paid well enough for me, I'll have less stress while at work, I'll have nights and holidays off with my wife and family, and I'll have a practice I can age in.


I don't know if that answers your questions, or if that's a compelling enough reason, but there are the thoughts. Sorry if they're scattered, I'm post shift and have only had a nap. I'll keep at it if the collective thinks I can focus those ideas down more. Feel free to help me be more compelling.
 
I'm working on that, and quietly trying to build relationships with these folks. I'll be asking for LORs in the spring from a few key folks at work, but otherwise I don't want to broadcast to the group yet that I might be leaving, or at least not until it's more of a done deal.





(I'll attempt a TL;DR summary, more details below if you're bored )... [I started into medicine because of an MSK type background and interest. I miss the MSK focused complaints. Work in the ED is exhausting and stressful, and I don't see it getting much better in the next few decades. While I still have the energy and ability, I'm planning a thoughtful exit from the ED and stepping aside to a new path that is more clinic based, likely with less stress. I'm looking for a practice that I can age in, and not regularly get mentally and physically beaten up while at work. My health and wellbeing outside of work is now more important to me than being the flashy trauma resuscitationist that I wanted to be in residency.]


Both of these are excellent points. This is part of the reason that I've been taking a longer road to apply, instead of rushing into it this year. Trying to get all my ducks in a row, so to speak. It's also given me plenty of down time to think about why I'm doing this and to make sure I'm not just running from problems. I know you guys don't need an explanation, but I think writing it out might help me organize my thoughts. Feel free to help me focus these ramblings if you so choose.

I came to medicine from a math based field after joining the ski patrol and taking their medical course. I was fascinated by the anatomy and physiology, and to be completely honest, the days where we were seeing multiple ortho injuries (frequent at a small local place with inexperienced "skiers") were some of my favorite days. I'd always been active, but finally getting to learn how to take care of injuries I had seen or suffered was what tipped me over to switching into a medical direction. Most of my peers were medics or firefighters, so naturally they always talked up EM. I had a job as a tech for a while that felt right, and I wanted to be like the docs I was working with. Fast forward to 3rd and 4th year of school, and my draw to EM was still there. I had multiple audition rotations that all felt right/good, and although I enjoyed my surgical rotations, I just had blinders on for EM. I didn't really have any great peers to discuss options at that point, but I felt like I was making the right call as a mid 20s medical student who knows nothing.

My draw to EM included the schedule and scheduling possibilities, working about a third of the month, and lots of "free time" for travel and recreation. I really liked the idea of no call and not having a long term longitudinal clinic like in family medicine. To be clear, I have a great job at the moment, I've made partner, we have a supportive hospital and nursing administration that works closely with us for staffing and throughput, and our admin team is pretty rock solid. It's a good gig. And the pay is good.

But. Some of those same things have started to make me reconsider another 20-30 years (who gets to retire anymore these days?) in this style of practice.
- The build up of chronic fatigue from all of the switching was making me miserable. We have more than a dozen shifts each day where I work. Initially I fixed the chaos of the constantly rotating and unpredictable schedule by going to full time nights. I set my own schedule and can write my ticket as far as work goes. It's what has kept me sane over the last few years. I have a pretty set group of nurses that I work with regularly who trust me and I trust them. It has made my practice so much more tolerable. I never thought that I would enjoy a set schedule, but getting on a good gym rotation, better food rotation and a predictable schedule for my wife has been life changing. I regularly sleep 8-10 hours between shifts, and I also am a night owl, so nights work for me. What can I say? The trade off is, well, nights. My wife and I are on opposite schedules a few days a week, but we do get days off together regularly. While I typically only work 3 days a week, I lose the first post shift day to either sleep or because I'm so tired I can't do much if I stay up. Which is basically four days of my week. two full free days, and then the last free day I lose the evening napping before my next shift. Again, it's crazy, but it's been working for me. I'm consistent at the gym and with meal prep, house chores are getting done, and the wife is definitely happier this way since I'm so much more tolerable and less grumpy, despite me being gone a few nights a week.
- While we have a flexible schedule, not really having sick days or PTO makes travel tough. You might get 2 or three weeks over if you can split it over two months, but you pay for it an get wrecked while working your full time shifts crammed into 15-18 days for two months straight. We did that multiple times the first two or three years for big trips, and it was rough.
- You don't have to have a "practice" or clinic, and you don't have to search for patients. They find you. Again, and again. Some shifts are fine, others we get crushed and have 20-50 in the waiting room all night long. Those shifts suck. Post COVID has also had more of those type of shifts for our ED. It's mentally and emotionally exhausting. The idea that every shift was different, and no presentation is the same that was alluring at the outset, has become tedious and more stressful as it goes on. I LOVE the pathophys and medicine related to a sick, crashing patient that needs resuscitation and interventions. Having a set list in a clinic and working through you day that way? I don't hate the idea. I don't know why med student and resident me was so against it.
- Another thing I've found is that I like doing some crazy stuff like skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, mountain climbing, hiking... you get the picture. EM has me so prepped for craziness all the time that I've been finding it more difficult to get as excited about those things the past few years. It's like my adrenaline and cortisol is used up at work, and I don't have enough to spread around for the recreational activities.
- As I mentioned above, I've finally felt stable in my practice over the past 2-3 years, and I've been able to entertain thoughts of what else I might do, or if EM is what is right for me. Talking to a few of my trainers at the gym and with med school buddies, I've realized how much I miss the MSK medicine. I want to work with people who want to get better, and are willing to take steps to make that happen, vs just walking in and expecting a pill and a miracle. I know that will happen in clinic, but I also don't have to continue seeing those patients. I want to work with athletes. I enjoy splinting, US procedures, and from what I saw on my shadowing in the clinic, I like the pathology.

I went to DO school because I really like the musculoskeletal medicine. And I still do. EM is flashy and drew me in. I wanted to be the doctor that people look to in a time of emergency or crisis to help, to stabilize, to control the situation. I feel like EM residency prepared me well for that, and I've made a great practice getting to do that. But I'm missing things and looking to the future, I can't see myself wanting to stay at this pace, in this environment for the next few decades. Does that mean I'm burned out? I hope not. I don't feel crispy/crunchy. I'm sure I have my days, but who doesn't after a rough shift? I still feel empathy for my patients, and I get a kick out of talking to some of them. I get flack from some of the nurses and more crusty partners for being a softy and letting the homeless folks hang out with us overnight instead of kicking them back out into the weather, as long as they are nice and respectful to the staff. I sit and talk to my patients regularly and probably spend way too much time at the bedside. But I'm ok with that, and it's what keeps me coming back for more shifts. I love the true emergency medicine, but the pace and constant push for more, More, MORE without real control over the pace or patient population is what's getting to me, I think.

I don't feel like I'm running. I've evaluated my options and my current mental/physical/emotional state, and I'm looking for a different type of practice. I see it more as a step to the side onto a new trail from where I am on my hike up the mountain. I think sports medicine will afford me that. It's not something that I realized would interest me or that I wanted to pursue in residency, but my life was different then. The idea of leaving trauma and crashing patients was demoralizing and the thought of clinic life as a 20 something made me nothing but bored. As I've matured, things have changed. I'm also contemplating my long term health and longevity at being able to practice medicine in a style that will let me continue well into the years without breaking me mentally and physically. Money isn't my driving factor. Insurance isn't my driving factor. Working at a smaller ED or at an Urgent Care is an option, but that feels like so much of the same-same, just on a smaller scale. So while that may help for a while, I don't think that's a good option for me long term.

I like the clinic mix of new/urgent and focused visits, procedures, splinting, some light urgent care for athletes or select patients, and working with athletes and active folks in general. I know there will be some metabolic syndrome patients with chronic hip and knee pain as well, but they typically feel better with injections, so they are happy. Or if you can't help them, they don't need more appointments. I have an interest in a few different topics and complaints that I can focus on and gear my clinic towards possibly. At the end of the day it will still be a job. But, I'll get paid well enough for me, I'll have less stress while at work, I'll have nights and holidays off with my wife and family, and I'll have a practice I can age in.


I don't know if that answers your questions, or if that's a compelling enough reason, but there are the thoughts. Sorry if they're scattered, I'm post shift and have only had a nap. I'll keep at it if the collective thinks I can focus those ideas down more. Feel free to help me be more compelling.

I’m a rheumatologist, so I’m not coming from exactly the same angle you are, but I’m familiar with sports medicine as we had some “out rotations” in it during rheumatology fellowship.

My issue with sports medicine as a specialty is that the actual day to day practice of it is so different than what it’s billed to be. If you actually can get a job where you do *sports medicine* on athletes and deal with actual sports injuries, that sounds cool. However, if you end up doing what most sports med docs do and see a buttload of miserable bone on bone osteoarthritic old people who expect you to magically fix their symptoms, that sounds like hell on wheels. Those are the type of patients I absolutely dread as a rheumatologist, and whom I try to get out of my clinic asap. The local sports med docs try to dump these patients on me, and I decline those consults.

Given that sports medicine would represent an improvement over the circadian ****ery that characterizes EM practice these days, you may feel that sports med is an upgrade, and that’s understandable. I actually considered doing an extra year of “musculoskeletal medicine” or sports med fellowship just to have more skill with injections and ultrasound - but when i came to understand what most sports med docs are actually doing all day…barf. No way would I want to deal with that. It’s actually much less cool than it sounds…not far away from pain management in some ways.
 
I’m a rheumatologist, so I’m not coming from exactly the same angle you are, but I’m familiar with sports medicine as we had some “out rotations” in it during rheumatology fellowship.

My issue with sports medicine as a specialty is that the actual day to day practice of it is so different than what it’s billed to be. If you actually can get a job where you do *sports medicine* on athletes and deal with actual sports injuries, that sounds cool. However, if you end up doing what most sports med docs do and see a buttload of miserable bone on bone osteoarthritic old people who expect you to magically fix their symptoms, that sounds like hell on wheels. Those are the type of patients I absolutely dread as a rheumatologist, and whom I try to get out of my clinic asap. The local sports med docs try to dump these patients on me, and I decline those consults.

Given that sports medicine would represent an improvement over the circadian ****ery that characterizes EM practice these days, you may feel that sports med is an upgrade, and that’s understandable. I actually considered doing an extra year of “musculoskeletal medicine” or sports med fellowship just to have more skill with injections and ultrasound - but when i came to understand what most sports med docs are actually doing all day…barf. No way would I want to deal with that. It’s actually much less cool than it sounds…not far away from pain management in some ways.
I would have to agree with this assessment of Sports Med. To be clear... you do you. I'm not trying to dissuade you from anything. But my context:
Am currently in pain fellowship. Pain requires 2 weeks of exposure to Psych, Neuro, PM&R and Anesthesia (unless your primary specialty is one of those, then you skip it).

I just did 2 weeks of PM&R with a sports med doc. The work was easy, and I thought most of her patients were actually quite lovely. She is also involved with a couple local sports teams and covers games and whatnot.

All of that said, I would say that maybe 20-30% of her patients were actually athletes / young athletic people. The vast majority were older and dealing with things like knee OA and there to get steroid injections / euflexxa / PRP / whatever.

The one nice difference between doing that sort of thing in a sports med clinic and in the pain clinic though is that it seems like ALL of the sports med people actually want to get better and are willing to work at it. There's definitely a subset in pain that just want a shot and/or some pills so that their back doesn't hurt as much while they sit on the couch all day.
 
I’m a rheumatologist, so I’m not coming from exactly the same angle you are, but I’m familiar with sports medicine as we had some “out rotations” in it during rheumatology fellowship.

My issue with sports medicine as a specialty is that the actual day to day practice of it is so different than what it’s billed to be. If you actually can get a job where you do *sports medicine* on athletes and deal with actual sports injuries, that sounds cool. However, if you end up doing what most sports med docs do and see a buttload of miserable bone on bone osteoarthritic old people who expect you to magically fix their symptoms, that sounds like hell on wheels. Those are the type of patients I absolutely dread as a rheumatologist, and whom I try to get out of my clinic asap. The local sports med docs try to dump these patients on me, and I decline those consults.

Given that sports medicine would represent an improvement over the circadian ****ery that characterizes EM practice these days, you may feel that sports med is an upgrade, and that’s understandable. I actually considered doing an extra year of “musculoskeletal medicine” or sports med fellowship just to have more skill with injections and ultrasound - but when i came to understand what most sports med docs are actually doing all day…barf. No way would I want to deal with that. It’s actually much less cool than it sounds…not far away from pain management in some ways.

PM&R here and this is what I experienced as a resident rotating through “sports medicine” as well. It’s pretty much chronic pain-lite. Even sticking to strictly affluent patients or athletes who have money, they tend to come to you wanting the pixie dust of PRP and stem cells.
 
The one nice difference between doing that sort of thing in a sports med clinic and in the pain clinic though is that it seems like ALL of the sports med people actually want to get better and are willing to work at it. There's definitely a subset in pain that just want a shot and/or some pills so that their back doesn't hurt as much while they sit on the couch all day.

Agree with this. It is so hard to get people to do physical therapy, or any sort of daily exercise that may help them. Part of the reason I try to screen out these MSK/degenerative joint type patients is that so many of them don’t want to do the basics in terms of getting better. I’d say my “take rate” on physical therapy is maybe 30-40%, at best. And then everyone expects you to have some other option for them. I’m not the kind of rheum that wants to load people up with opioids and NSAIDs, so if you don’t want PT or possibly injections, I don’t have much else to offer you. And that causes a lot of grumbling.
 
Agree with this. It is so hard to get people to do physical therapy, or any sort of daily exercise that may help them. Part of the reason I try to screen out these MSK/degenerative joint type patients is that so many of them don’t want to do the basics in terms of getting better. I’d say my “take rate” on physical therapy is maybe 30-40%, at best. And then everyone expects you to have some other option for them. I’m not the kind of rheum that wants to load people up with opioids and NSAIDs, so if you don’t want PT or possibly injections, I don’t have much else to offer you. And that causes a lot of grumbling.
The other thing is when an athlete does go see a sports med doc for something non-surgical, the issue usually has something to do with volume, intensity, or technique as it relates to their specific sport. Unless a physician is well versed in that sport and excels at it themselves, they really have no good recs wrt management. A sports med doc who is a weekend warrior rock climber really has no good recs for a true avid rock climber, much less a ballet dancer who experiences a lot of pain in their feet going on point. Then the doc is left with selling regen med potions
 
wanting the pixie dust
That reminds me of a story from residency. I say this not to be snobby (it's the opposite - my EM residency was weak), but to outline. I was rotating on Ortho at Duke. The one attending was explaining to the pt about total knee replacement. He's being formal and scientific, is of course, but, then he says, then we'll sprinkle some "magic dust" on it. Of course, the pt gets this quizzical look on her face. Ortho says, "explaining growth factors is a 55 minute lecture, without a break, so, functionally, it's magic", and the pt laughed.
 
That’s because physicians who think that fleeing EM to another speciality will fix their burnout are wrong - their issues persist because they’re unhappy with much more than just their speciality.

I gotta disagree on this part. There isn't always some underlying issue that confuses people into thinking EM is the cause of their problems. For many, EM really is the problem.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
Happy to answer questions as I am 13 years out of residency and applying to fellowship this cycle.

I got LORs from my ED director, assistant director, one of our ED care managers, and the director of the hospitalist service.

I did not do rotations at programs as a prospective applicant while also working in my current attending position. I didn’t know that was a thing. I did, however, shadow multiple team members of the fellowship program near where I live.

Happy to answer any other questions as I go through this process. It was tough going it alone without a med school or residency guidance office, so to speak!
 
...
If you actually can get a job where you do *sports medicine* on athletes and deal with actual sports injuries, that sounds cool. However, if you end up doing what most sports med docs do and see a buttload of miserable bone on bone osteoarthritic old people who expect you to magically fix their symptoms, that sounds like hell on wheels. ...

Given that sports medicine would represent an improvement over the circadian ****ery that characterizes EM practice these days, you may feel that sports med is an upgrade, and that’s understandable. I actually considered doing an extra year of “musculoskeletal medicine” or sports med fellowship just to have more skill with injections and ultrasound - but when i came to understand what most sports med docs are actually doing all day…barf. No way would I want to deal with that. It’s actually much less cool than it sounds…not far away from pain management in some ways.

Good perspective, thank you.

I would have to agree with this assessment of Sports Med. To be clear... you do you. I'm not trying to dissuade you from anything. But my context:
Am currently in pain fellowship. Pain requires 2 weeks of exposure to Psych, Neuro, PM&R and Anesthesia (unless your primary specialty is one of those, then you skip it).

I just did 2 weeks of PM&R with a sports med doc. The work was easy, and I thought most of her patients were actually quite lovely. She is also involved with a couple local sports teams and covers games and whatnot.

All of that said, I would say that maybe 20-30% of her patients were actually athletes / young athletic people. The vast majority were older and dealing with things like knee OA and there to get steroid injections / euflexxa / PRP / whatever.

The one nice difference between doing that sort of thing in a sports med clinic and in the pain clinic though is that it seems like ALL of the sports med people actually want to get better and are willing to work at it. There's definitely a subset in pain that just want a shot and/or some pills so that their back doesn't hurt as much while they sit on the couch all day.
Again, this is a good perspective that I just won't get from my current position. So thank you. I don't mind the pain patients, and I think that having even ANY patients that are willing to try PT or something to get better instead of just a pill will be significantly better than what I'm dealing with now. I know it's not all rainbows and butterflies, but having slightly more control over who you see and if you'll see them again will also be nice. That seems like a fair trade off to me.

I gotta disagree on this part. There isn't always some underlying issue that confuses people into thinking EM is the cause of their problems. For many, EM really is the problem.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
I think this is what I'm coming to understand about myself and my practice. I still like the medicine, but the practice part of EM is what is driving me away. I know clinic will have its own chicanery and shenanigans. But the stakes are different, and I'll be at home with my wife every evening, every weekend, and every holiday. Minus any games or events I'm choosing to cover.

Happy to answer questions as I am 13 years out of residency and applying to fellowship this cycle.

I got LORs from my ED director, assistant director, one of our ED care managers, and the director of the hospitalist service.

I did not do rotations at programs as a prospective applicant while also working in my current attending position. I didn’t know that was a thing. I did, however, shadow multiple team members of the fellowship program near where I live.

Happy to answer any other questions as I go through this process. It was tough going it alone without a med school or residency guidance office, so to speak!
@Pinner Doc First off, bow down to the free heeler. I'm a closet tele skier masquerading as a snowboarder. And I'm not sorry. I'm kind of feeling like you right now because I'm so far out of residency. I know I'll have more questions as this goes on, so I'll reach out to you if I hit a snag. I think my question right now is what to do about a deans letter since I've been out of school for >10 years? Can I send them the one I used for residency? I have a local-ish fellowship, and I'm going to an ultrasound course that they put on in a few weeks, so I'll be able to chat them up a little. I was hoping that I may be able to do an informal rotation/shadowing as well. I was hoping to get an LOR from the program director there after an audition rotation, but I don't know that I absolutely have to.

What made you pick an ED care manager and the hospitalist director for letter writers?
 
@Pinner Doc First off, bow down to the free heeler. I'm a closet tele skier masquerading as a snowboarder. And I'm not sorry. I'm kind of feeling like you right now because I'm so far out of residency. I know I'll have more questions as this goes on, so I'll reach out to you if I hit a snag. I think my question right now is what to do about a deans letter since I've been out of school for >10 years? Can I send them the one I used for residency? I have a local-ish fellowship, and I'm going to an ultrasound course that they put on in a few weeks, so I'll be able to chat them up a little. I was hoping that I may be able to do an informal rotation/shadowing as well. I was hoping to get an LOR from the program director there after an audition rotation, but I don't know that I absolutely have to.

What made you pick an ED care manager and the hospitalist director for letter writers?

I do believe I contacted my med school and had them forward my dean’s letter and my transcript. From 2008

I’m applying to HPM, so I thought an interdisciplinary approach to my LORs might be worthwhile.

Also, full disclosure- I don’t tele much anymore, but I do have a sweet AT setup and I’ve gotten seriously into Nordic, so I still free the heel a fair amount!
 
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