Applying to MSTP after sending in MD AMCAS

[JDMD243.0]

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Started an independent research project last May with a professor to see if I liked research enough to go for an MD/PhD. Because I had just started, I sent in my AMCAS applying to schools MD only. I've enjoyed the work so far and my professor is encouraging me to go for the MD/PhD. So I have a some questions about applying to MD/PhD programs AFTER I have already submitted my MD application

1) It seems that you can switch/add from MD to MD/PhD on AMCAS but didn't know if anyone else has done this or if this is something I need to contact the schools about individually?

2) Since most schools let you apply for MD/PhD after you have started med school should I just hold off for now and wait to see how my first year of med school goes?

3) Many schools have separate tracks for MD and MD/PhD admissions. If my MD application gets rejected in the next couple of weeks at school X, can I then send in an MD/PhD application? If so, do I need to say anything to school X about my MD application already being rejected?

Thanks!

JD

 

[MSTP?]

1) Most of the time you further designate your MD/PhD status on the secondary application. That would be a good time to change your desired program. Not sure about AMCAS.

2) With your scant research background, it's unlikely you'll have a good shot after medical school has started to get into the program. It's also highly unlikely you have a shot at the program now with 4 months of research. You should hold off on applying and take time to do research if you're serious about MD/PhD. Or, you should just apply MD and look at the more research oriented schools, schools that let you get MS, schools that encourage individual research projects, etc. Many very successful research doctors consciously chose to do an MD only and then completed a post-doctoral fellowship in research after residency - a very viable route.

3) I've never heard of this. Once you're rejected for a cycle, I believe that's it. At most schools, admission into the MD/PhD program is contigent on getting accepted at the medical school. Few have totally separate application processes. You're getting an acceptance to the medical school and the graduate school with a MD/PhD acceptance. If you get rejected from one, you can't apply again in a slightly different context in the same application cycle.

Bottom Line: You don't have enough research. If you are serious about MD/PhD, you need to take 2 years off and do some more research. The big difference in MD and MD/PhD admission is that the quality, quantity, and content of your research matters enormously for the latter. Some successful applicants have about 2 years of research during college - most have much more. You'll be competing with people who have done research all four years of college and many who have taken time off to do research after graduation. If you glance through this forum, you'll see people worried about if a publication is mandatory for you to be considered competitive. This competition is for anywhere from 2-20 spots at a med school - most schools have 5-10 spots. Competition is tough.

Remember that you'll be getting paid a stipend in the MD/PhD program and your med school tuition is waved. They're looking for people that know what they're getting into and won't flake out halfway through their PhD when stuff isn't working and decide just to do an MD.

Read the FAQ's stickied at the top of the forum - a lot of good information there. An MD/PhD isn't something you apply to on a whim.

 

[totalcommand]

Started an independent research project last May with a professor to see if I liked research enough to go for an MD/PhD. Because I had just started, I sent in my AMCAS applying to schools MD only. I've enjoyed the work so far and my professor is encouraging me to go for the MD/PhD. So I have a some questions about applying to MD/PhD programs AFTER I have already submitted my MD application

1) It seems that you can switch/add from MD to MD/PhD on AMCAS but didn't know if anyone else has done this or if this is something I need to contact the schools about individually?

2) Since most schools let you apply for MD/PhD after you have started med school should I just hold off for now and wait to see how my first year of med school goes?

3) Many schools have separate tracks for MD and MD/PhD admissions. If my MD application gets rejected in the next couple of weeks at school X, can I then send in an MD/PhD application? If so, do I need to say anything to school X about my MD application already being rejected?

Thanks!

JD

My thoughts (I'm applying to md/phd right now):

1) The only thing I know is that AMCAS has MD/PhD specific questions (2 essays: why md/phd, and what is your research experience). Some schools have modified their md/phd secondaries so they do not ask these same questions again as they used to do. So your best bet would be to call each individual school to see what the procedure should be. AMCAS does not allow changes to essays after submittal AFAIK.

2) It's going to be hard for you to get any more research experience during medical school that'll be significant enough to help your md/phd app. Your best bet here would be to withdraw your application to MD, take a year off, and work fulltime at a place like the NIH (see the post-bacc IRTA program).

3) It depends on the school, but most schools require approval from the MD program before they'll accept you to MD/PhD. Exceptions are state schools like U of Wash, where out of state people do not really have a chance at the MD, but have an equal chance for the MD/PhD.

General Thoughts:

You're going to have a very tough decision. It's unlikely you'll get in places with that little experience (unless your professor who suggested this can get you in at your school). And with at least some good reason: with only a few months research, it is very hard to tell that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life. And, the reasons for applying to MD/PhD are much more than just wanting to do medical research (you can do that with an MD anyways, if you have the drive).

I don't want to say you haven't considered this decision fully, but really reconsider your decision to apply to MD/PhD - what are your real reasons? If you're serious about MD/PhD, I think the first step would be to get more experience before you make such a huge commitment.

 

[Lanakila]

I have been thinking of MD/PhD program, too (lol...I wrote pHd) and there are a lot of schools: Albany, Brown, OHSU that allow you to apply during your first two years as a med student (someone correct me if I am wrong). In that case, you don't get your med school tuition paid for, but (at least at Brown) if you do the PhD portion in under 3 years I think you get the last 2 med school years paid for.
So, maybe apply anyway and talk to your interviewer about opportunities to get into the MD/PhD program. I can't see why they wouldn't consider it.

 

[Lanakila]

Also, the commitment isn't much "huger" than deciding to go to med school. To be a really competitive fellowship applicant, residents will do a research fellowship (2 years) before moving on. What's another year or two (in addition to 2 years of research in residency) if you walk away with a PhD and some med school paid for?

 

[JDMD243.0]

Let me reattack this and clarify what I'm asking...

1) I did get selected for the NIH post-bacc IRTA program and have been doing more than just cleaning glassware a couple of hours a week for a few months. I am aware that my time in the research biz is limited and am thinking about deferring med school for year if I get in so that I have some more time to learn the ropes or holding off on applying to MSTP until I am in medical school.

2) Has anyone else has been in a similar situation i.e. submitted MD only AMCAS applications + April MCAT in the summer but held off on MSTP applications until fall because they wanted to take some more time before making the decision? I realize that this is an atypical situation but it is the one I am in so I am looking for some more robust responses.

3) From clicking around on the AMCAS site, it appears that one can change from MD to MSTP but I have not yet heard of anyone actually trying to do this. The AMCAS folks have not responded to my queries. I am just trying to see if it is possible to do make this change without screwing up the system. I have discussed this scenario with admissions types at a couple of schools but couldn't get firm guidance.

4) If it is possible to make this switch on AMCAS, I would only do this in the event that I was rejected pre-secondary from a school that I was really interested in. Several schools have separate admissions tracks for MD and MSTP i.e. if you are rejected from MSTP, you have to send in a separate MD application. Is the reverse situation possible though? In other words, if I am rejected from an MD program, can I then send in an MSTP application later in the same cycle. This scenario would most likely apply to a state school since most discriminate against OOS applicants for MD but do not discriminate against out OOS for MSTP programs. Not trying to get in a pissing contest with anyone, just looking for constructive feedback from someone who has been in this scenario or can give me some concrete guidance from an admissions perspective.

Thanks!

JD

 

[MSTP?]

just looking for constructive feedback from someone who has been in this scenario or can give me some concrete guidance from an admissions perspective.

For the most accurate information - talk to the admissions office at specific schools, b/c it is a school specific situation. IMO, I doubt you can apply MD/PhD anywhere after being rejected MD. As for AMCAS, call AMCAS to see their policy after submission. Just go straight to the source. SDN is more for other people's opinions rather than concrete guidance.

 

[as06]

You can definitely switch from MD to MD/PhD on your AMCAS application. I did this after my health professions committee sent letters to MD/PhD programs to which I hadn't planned on applying. You will simply have to re-certify.

I switched these program designations before my AMCAS was verified. You will be able to do the same post-verification. However, I agree that you should discuss this decision with every single school. It should not be terribly difficult to switch if schools have not yet reviewed your application. Even if they have, they may be willing to allow the switch.

good luck!