Approaching Professors

[tomorrowgirl99]

Please, Please don't rip me apart for asking this question. I tried the google search, since the regular search has been disabled, and I wasn't able to find much information.

I do pretty well in my science courses, so I haven't had to go to office hours and ask questions or really have to engage with most of my science professors. However, there is that little problem of LORs. Does anyone have any advice about asking professors for LORs? I feel really "phony" for making conversation with someone just for the sake of letter. Also, does anyone know if schools will accept recommendations from engineering professors for courses in thermodynamics or other chem e. courses. Thanks in advance

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[crys20]

You know what, I was exactly the same as you....And I put off asking for letters until my Junior year, the winter and spring before I applied. As late as possible! I thought it would feel phony, and it usually did kind of, but professors ARE REALLY GOOD ABOUT IT. Because they've been asked for letters ALOT before, and alot of times its been by people who they have known less well than you. People talk to a prof once, and then will ask him/her for a letter. Plus....and I hate to be the one to break the bubble for some SDNers...95% of letters SOUND THE SAME! So it doesn't really matter how super well you know the guy because he most likely has a document saved on his computer that he changes slightly, uses your name, etc. Honestly. Of course there are some people who know their profs from labs, weekends, WHATEVER and they get better letters. I don't think they matter that much, as long as they arent discrediting. What I found to be less painful was emailing them.."Dr so and so...Would you be willing to meet with me this week to discuss writing me a letter of recommendation for medical school?" Everytie they were like "Sure! Lets meet Wednesday", or something like that. Then I went with this whole packet...a transcript, a copy of my resume, even a copy of my personal statement (not necessary), and they all did timely letters and were so nice about it. It's one of the sucky things about premed, I agree, but something that cant be avoided.

I would think profs from those courses would work...Some schools are more picky than others though. One of the ones I'm applying to requested 2 letters from what they called "hard science" professors, so who knows.

 

[tomorrowgirl99]

Thanks so much for the advice. I think I might try emailing some of my professors. I will be taking biochem in the fall, so hopefully, I will be able to get to know my professor.

 

[PostalWookie]

The Professors understand. Anyone who teaches a large premed science class will get dozens of students they barely know asking for LORs every year. Basically they use a boilerplate letter with alight differences (usually your name and grade inserted). If you're lucky, the professor may actually ask you for a resume, and some information that will help them write a more personal-sounding letter.

To illustrate this, I TA for a professor that teaches a 300 student (undergrad and postbac) intro bio class. This year, she had 60 letter to write for medical school. As you can imagine, they pretty much said the same thing. The exception is for the TAs and for a few students that she has actually gotten to know at office hours.

 

[nutmeg1445]

Many schools want at least one of the LORs to be from what they consider "hard" sciences. Basically chem, bio, and phys. This I think is bs since much of engineering is based off of phys and I'm sure chem e has more chemistry than some chem classes. But crys20 is right. I emailed a prof that I had for a summer class. Smaller classes, so by the end he at least new my name. He had no problem writing a recommendation for me.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks so much for the advice. I think I might try emailing some of my professors. I will be taking biochem in the fall, so hopefully, I will be able to get to know my professor.

It's probably smarter to talk to your profs in person, not email. Most science profs consider LORs part of their job and will be willing to do them for their students they know or who excell in their classes. But you probably should pop in to office hours once in a while even if you don't need help, just so your prof can feel like he knows you beyond your letter grade. There are many people who do this -- it isn't being phony or sucking up -- it is a just smart. Otherwise your LOR will be pretty lukewarm and will do nothing to set you apart.

 

[RayhanS1282]

I had the same problem as well. I didn't go to office hours and didn't make "small talks" with the professors. But later on, I realized the importance of office hours and grade review days and stuff like that went on those. I usually dropped off a giant envelope with an advanced thank you note as well as the instructions to where to send the LOR since, I waived my right to see what they will be writing. All of them were very nice about it and finished it up in a timely manner (w/in 1 or 2 weeks). My suggestion would be to you is that get the LORs as soon as possible because then these have to go to the committee and they need to write up a letter and that can take a loooooong time.

 

[SuzieQ3417]

I was also in the same boat. I always did well in my science classes so I never went to office hours. I ended up asking the professor of one of my upper level bio courses, because there were only 15 people in the class, so at least he knew my name and a decent amount of info about me. I also asked the professor who taught organic 2. There were well over 200 people in the class, but I always sat near the front and occassionaly asked questions or was called upon, so he knew me by face, and eventually by name. The other two people I asked was a post-doc who I've been working with for the past 2 years in a lab, and a music theory professor of mine (I'm a music major, and that one was not difficult since there are only 200 music majors at my school and all of the professors know more about your life then you would sometimes care for them to). Still, I felt like a big idiot asking these people for letters. I hadn't had the oganic class for well over a year when I asked. The way I went about it was to email each professor and see if I could set up a time to go into their office and meet them. Most of them figured I would be asking for a LOR, but I didn't come right out and say it. Then when I went to their office I gave them a folder with lots of info...transcript, resume, personal statement, waiver saying I wouldn't see their letter, and a copy of a research poster I presented last spring. They were all enthusiastic about writing a letter, so I felt better just getting it done and wondered why I put it off so long.

 

[crys20]

lol it seems like peoples experiences can be so similar! i will agree with law2doc that i forced myself to go to office hrs (a COUPLE times, not every day or anything...the couple times per prof were a pain enough! ) just so they SOMEWHAT knew me when i went in to meet with them (after already emailing them to set up a mtg to discuss it so i knew they were somewhat game).

It's really not our faults. One of the profs who I got a letter from was actually from my freshman year gen chem and I had not done super great in the class. I actually knew him very well unlike my other letter writers and he remembered me 2 yrs later when i asked him for a letter. I was desperate for science letters, plus i felt like he could attest to the 'hard-working, keep trying, upward progress, getting into the groove of college' theme sort of of my gpa. ANYWAY, he said that the only people he ever really sees in lecture are those "C" sort of students (hence why i went to those office hrs frosh yr and in later science classes did not...i was getting much higher grades). So all to say i think the best students are not going to office hrs as much and have to fake it a couple times, and then ask for letters.

 

[OddNath]

Also, does anyone know if schools will accept recommendations from engineering professors for courses in thermodynamics or other chem e. courses. Thanks in advance

My only "science" letter came from my thermo prof, so that should be fine.

 

[tomorrowgirl99]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I didn't realize that a lot of people are/were in the same situation.

 

[dynx]

I hated going to office hours and making up crap to talk about...and the people who did do that annoyed the hell out of me. Instead, when you are a 3rd and 4th year focus on taking a couple upperdivision sci classes with small enrollments. You'll get a chance to interact with the teacher in a class setting where it won't be ackward since you will need to talk about the material instead of just be lectured on it. Hopefully if you take a couple of these classes you can get a letter or two, then do some research and get a letter from your PI...thats all you need. Much better than some "he was number 4 in a class of 200" generic crap.

 

[BigRedPremed]

How important are letters of rec? It seems like LOR's for med school are relatively important in the application process.

BTW: I'm in the same boat as everyone else in this thread. I should have a decent rec from the professor I do research with but no prospects for the other letters.

 

[ShyRem]

I also almost never went to office hours. But my classes were small (Pchem was only 8 people!), and I was pretty well known by my professors in class. When I asked my pchem professor for a letter, he was absolutely thrilled. I also was required to get a letter from my pre-med advisor (who taught two of my biology classes) for several schools. He didn't know me quite as well, but well enough. Interestingly, I didn't ask any of my math professors (my other major). I don't think they knew me quite as well as the chemistry professors did. Probably because the math department was much bigger than the chem department, so almost every class was taught by a different professor. In the chem department, I had several classes and labs by the same prof.

You'd be surprised how much your professors pick up on your personality, desires, and goals just by having you in class. I sure was.

 

[btg138]

I have a similar question/problem. I am a nontraditional student and just finished Gen Chem I at a community college. It was a difficult class (30 students started it, 9 finished it). I got to know the professor pretty well (it's almost been 18 years since I took chem, bio & math) and pulled out a high A. Is it worth it to get a LOR from him? How do LORs from CCs fare? Should I wait and get some from the university (I start there in August to finish prereqs (Chem, O-chem, & Physics)? The last problem - he is a chemical engineer by trade, not a full time professor.

 

[crys20]

I think letters are important in that you need em and they can't say anything bad, or indifferent. Thing is, most letters are probably "pretty good" so as long as yours are also "pretty good", it wont be an issue. Of course having a phenomenal one will help and a bad one will hurt but i dont think either scenario happens THAT often.

 

[Hoberto]

Please, Please don't rip me apart for asking this question. I tried the google search, since the regular search has been disabled, and I wasn't able to find much information.

I do pretty well in my science courses, so I haven't had to go to office hours and ask questions or really have to engage with most of my science professors. However, there is that little problem of LORs. Does anyone have any advice about asking professors for LORs? I feel really "phony" for making conversation with someone just for the sake of letter. Also, does anyone know if schools will accept recommendations from engineering professors for courses in thermodynamics or other chem e. courses. Thanks in advance

I'm pretty sure they accept engineering prof letters. I don't even know who my science course profs were so I used only eng profs and PIs. I'll definitely post if some school sends them back!


Edit: I was just thinking, what if I did need to get a science prof letter...how would I find out who my profs were? Their names are not on my transcripts or in my school's online history. Even if I found out I'm not sure I'd want to go up to one and be like, "Hello! I took your Chem 1100 class in the Winter quarter of 1994. I'm sure you remember me, I usually sat in row 16 on the end in a waitress uniform, reeking of syrup. Could you write me a letter of recommendation for medical school?"

 

[Law2Doc]

I think letters are important in that you need em and they can't say anything bad, or indifferent. Thing is, most letters are probably "pretty good" so as long as yours are also "pretty good", it wont be an issue. Of course having a phenomenal one will help and a bad one will hurt but i dont think either scenario happens THAT often.

Everything in the app process can help or hurt you. Adcom people will tell you that they really do read the LORs, value them and use them in their evaluation of your app. Lukewarm LORs can be the kiss of death if it comes down to you versus another applicant with comparable stats and great LORs. Strong LORs can sometimes get you looked at even with a blemished app, while on the other extreme, a really bad LOR can even keep a 4.0/40 student out of med school. The vast majority of students coming out of undergrad have lukewarm LORs (i.e. "X received an A in my course and thereby demonstrated a solid understanding and proficiency in general chemistry. Based on his performance in my course I would recommend him for medical school."), with perhaps a better one from a research PI; thus if you can get a more personalized letter from a prof who knows you and likes you, you will stand out. And this app process is all about standing out in a positive way.

 

[Gut Shot]

Please, Please don't rip me apart for asking this question.

Whatever happens, do not use the above sentence to strike up a conversation with a Professor.

 

[hardy]

a really bad LOR can even keep a 4.0/40 student out of med school.

It doesn't even need to be really bad. If any of your LORs say anything bad, you are pretty much screwed. Professors rarely write anything bad so if they do it is pretty serious.

 

[Law2Doc]

It doesn't even need to be really bad. If any of your LORs say anything bad, you are pretty much screwed. Professors rarely write anything bad so if they do it is pretty serious.

Agreed. Adcoms assume you have only requested recommendations from people who are most likely to say positive things about you, so it can perhaps be inferred by a bad LOR that "with friends like that, who needs enemies" -- there are probably people out there who think less of you that you screened out. Thus a bad LOR is hard to overcome.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

It doesn't even need to be really bad. If any of your LORs say anything bad, you are pretty much screwed. Professors rarely write anything bad so if they do it is pretty serious.

here's my question -- why would a professor write a bad lor? if they don't have good things to say about you, why don't they just tell you they're not comfortable writing a letter? i'm just wondering if there are these evil professors out there who like to screw premed students by acting nice and then writing nasty letters. is this just premed paranoia?

 

[Hoberto]

My husband got a bad LOR from his PI who later confessed that she didn't want him to leave the lab. So, she was just selfish...he was fortunate that one of his interviewers mentioned that he was a really good candidate that was completely unlike what was suggested in the LOR. He never would have known the LOR was bad had this interviewer not said anything. He had awesome stats, volunteer experiences such as running a homeless shelter in NYC, and a disadvantaged background....so one bad LOR really CAN make a difference.

I always make sure to ask the potential LOR writer if they would be willing and able to write a positive LOR.