Are all Asians considered in one category for UC admissions?

[rikibamboo]

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Or are they considered in sub-categories?

I've heard stories that UCs are particular about "diversity" - going through the MSAR, I noticed that they broke down the Asian category into several ethnicities. And while Asians are usually the second largest ethnic group behind Caucasians to get accepted, among Asians it's mostly Chinese and Indians getting accepted with a scattering of 0s, 1s, 2s, etc. for the rest.

Personally though, I think it's unfair that schools consider race as a factor at all. They should focus on socio-economic backgrounds instead. End rant.

 

[jenandhansun]

im not sure about it, but usually since the ethnicity section is optional, you can skip it. I always question myself whether or not to click on the "Asian" button when it's "optional."

 

[Mattabet]

The breakdown probably depends on the institution. But yeah, obviously "Asians in medicine" is pretty broad. And while Indian doctors or Japanese doctors may be overrepresented, Hmong doctors sure aren't.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Or are they considered in sub-categories?

I've heard stories that UCs are particular about "diversity" - going through the MSAR, I noticed that they broke down the Asian category into several ethnicities. And while Asians are usually the second largest ethnic group behind Caucasians to get accepted, among Asians it's mostly Chinese and Indians getting accepted with a scattering of 0s, 1s, 2s, etc. for the rest.

Personally though, I think it's unfair that schools consider race as a factor at all. They should focus on socio-economic backgrounds instead. End rant.

Agreed. Just because a rich black kid is black, does not mean he will want to serve the poor black community.

 

[rikibamboo]

The breakdown probably depends on the institution. But yeah, obviously "Asians in medicine" is pretty broad. And while Indian doctors or Japanese doctors may be overrepresented, Hmong doctors sure aren't.

I think it's only in Hawaii where the Japanese are the majority of the Asians accepted. Everywhere else, it rarely goes above 2. But I feel you Hmong people - I guess you guys always fall under the "Other Asians" category.

 

[rikibamboo]

Hopefully someone has some insights on this...(I know that race is such a small factor to begin with in admissions but it's still relevant).

 

[TNK123]

I think a rick black kid would be more likely to serve a poor black community, than a poor white kid would serve a poor minority community.
A poor white kid turned doctor has escaped his past. He would be glad he got the hell out of that community, so why would he want to go back? A black person, regardless of socio-economic status, is tied to his/her identity as a black person. (Unless they are celebrities) There is a wonderful article on how color can make a person's status as a doctor disappear. Many black doctors go into black communities because they are stigmatized else where. White patients still request white doctors, and doubt the abilities of black doctors, as do fellow medical and pre-medical students. Therefore, black doctors are more likely to serve in black communities.

 

[hopefuldoc87]

I think a rick black kid would be more likely to serve a poor black community, than a poor white kid would serve a poor minority community.
A poor white kid turned doctor has escaped his past. He would be glad he got the hell out of that community, so why would he want to go back? A black person, regardless of socio-economic status, is tied to his/her identity as a black person. (Unless they are celebrities) There is a wonderful article on how color can make a person's status as a doctor disappear. Many black doctors go into black communities because they are stigmatized else where. White patients still request white doctors, and doubt the abilities of black doctors, as do fellow medical and pre-medical students. Therefore, black doctors are more likely to serve in black communities.

LOL

Have you seen this? Or are you just saying this based on what you've seen on Grey's Anatomy?

Sure it probably happens, but you make it seem like it's an everyday occurrence.

 

[TNK123]

No, My Dad is a black doctor. It happens more often than you'd think.
He is foreign, and had no knowledge of racism in his country until he went came here for college, medical school and started practicing.

 

[ensuii]

I'm indian and I'm always referred to as azn even tho it annoys the hell out of me :-\

 

[ChinaDoll]

when people ask for my family origin, I usually tell them that I am Martian...
cuz I get really annoyed by people keep asking those questions...

btw..I am half Jap half Chin...how do I define myself? IDK..

 

[unsung]

LOL

Have you seen this? Or are you just saying this based on what you've seen on Grey's Anatomy?

Sure it probably happens, but you make it seem like it's an everyday occurrence.

White kids underestimate the prevalence of racism in every day situations. Trust me, it happens more often than you might think.

To the above poster re: rich black kids, actually studies show that minority physicians are more likely to serve minority populations. So yes, the rich black kid IS more likely to go back to serve a poor black population than the rich white kid.

So even if you believe in being race-blind, not using affirmative action, etc. in all other arenas of life, there is justification for making an exception in the area of medical school admissions. For the simple fact that we've got huge populations of under-served minorities who need care.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

So even if you believe in being race-blind, not using affirmative action, etc. in all other arenas of life, there is justification for making an exception in the area of medical school admissions. For the simple fact that we've got huge populations of under-served minorities who need care.

Yeah but specifically this thread refers to UC admissions, it is illegal for the university of california (prop 209) to use affirmative action regardless of the justifications. However the UC med schools just go on right ahead doing so without getting sued somehow.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

LOL

Have you seen this? Or are you just saying this based on what you've seen on Grey's Anatomy?

Sure it probably happens, but you make it seem like it's an everyday occurrence.

It also happened on Family Guy. Right when Stewie was about to pass out. It was hilarious.

 

[Ponger]

Personally though, I think it's unfair that schools consider race as a factor at all. They should focus on socio-economic backgrounds instead. End rant.

Diversity is a good thing. Multiple backgrounds bring a richness of experiences that a race-blind/socioeconomic-only process never could. I've had an adcom tell me that if admissions were race-blind, most seats would be filled by asian people and the rest by caucasians. I think that's completely bogus and unrepresentative of the real world.

From my own perspective, I'm Asian (and got accepted to med school) and would freaking hate it if 70% of my class were also Asian. That'd be so damn boring.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Yeah but specifically this thread refers to UC admissions, it is illegal for the university of california (prop 209) to use affirmative action regardless of the justifications. However the UC med schools just go on right ahead doing so without getting sued somehow.

And Pinkertinkle knows this because he is omnipotent. Obvi.

 

[Rendar5]

Agreed. Just because a rich black kid is black, does not mean he will want to serve the poor black community.

yeah, you guys are totally right. They really should consider disadvantaged status and have that on the application because that's what helps make up for socioeconomic disparities [/extreme sarcasm]

sigh, sometimes people really don't seem to get what under-represented means and can't get it through their heads that URM is something different than affirmative action, and that the poor white kids do actually have a slight leg up on the competition.

 

[Rendar5]

Or are they considered in sub-categories?

I've heard stories that UCs are particular about "diversity" - going through the MSAR, I noticed that they broke down the Asian category into several ethnicities. And while Asians are usually the second largest ethnic group behind Caucasians to get accepted, among Asians it's mostly Chinese and Indians getting accepted with a scattering of 0s, 1s, 2s, etc. for the rest.

Personally though, I think it's unfair that schools consider race as a factor at all. They should focus on socio-economic backgrounds instead. End rant.

I think my last post actually more targeted this, but it kinda annoys me to see people agree with this. they do focus on socioeconomic backgrounds...

 

[babydragon]

Look at post #11 for more detail.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com...y/741394-chance-me-please.html#post1062911123

"However the UC med schools just go on right ahead doing so without getting sued somehow. "

Do you have any sources to back this up?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Look at post #11 for more detail.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com...y/741394-chance-me-please.html#post1062911123

"However the UC med schools just go on right ahead doing so without getting sued somehow. "

Do you have any sources to back this up?

maybe..

 

[Nafis64]

I think a rick black kid would be more likely to serve a poor black community, than a poor white kid would serve a poor minority community.
A poor white kid turned doctor has escaped his past. He would be glad he got the hell out of that community, so why would he want to go back? A black person, regardless of socio-economic status, is tied to his/her identity as a black person. (Unless they are celebrities) There is a wonderful article on how color can make a person's status as a doctor disappear. Many black doctors go into black communities because they are stigmatized else where. White patients still request white doctors, and doubt the abilities of black doctors, as do fellow medical and pre-medical students. Therefore, black doctors are more likely to serve in black communities.

Agree. People harbor thoughts like that consciously or unconsciously, and I've seen it through interactions on many levels in daily life or in the clinic from everyone.

 

[Phosphorus Ylide]

White patients still request white doctors, and doubt the abilities of black doctors, as do fellow medical and pre-medical students.

I imagine it depends on where you are practicing as well, but I don't think I have ever in my year of working in the ER seen a patient request or deny medical treatment from a particular physician based on race alone. Then again, I imagine most of them are so happy to be seen by a physician that by this point, they would take anyone, regardless of any biases they have.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

Diversity is a good thing. Multiple backgrounds bring a richness of experiences that a race-blind/socioeconomic-only process never could. I've had an adcom tell me that if admissions were race-blind, most seats would be filled by asian people and the rest by caucasians. I think that's completely bogus and unrepresentative of the real world.

From my own perspective, I'm Asian (and got accepted to med school) and would freaking hate it if 70% of my class were also Asian. That'd be so damn boring.

I'd think that'd be pretty tight. We need to make a historically Asian medical school, already have historically Asian undergrads in UC Irvine and UCLA. Maybe a UC Chinatown in LA. I'd apply there.

 

[amikhchi]

Middle-Easterns are considered *white* so i wouldn't doubt that all "asians" are *asian* and it seems most latinos are considered *hispanic* right? it's like lumping everyone in the world into 4 or 5 categories... i find it so funny that they do that considering nearly every school has some sort of "how do you bring diversity to our incoming class" type essays

 

[Charles English]

when people ask for my family origin, I usually tell them that I am Martian...
cuz I get really annoyed by people keep asking those questions...

btw..I am half Jap half Chin...how do I define myself? IDK..

well, that's easy. you take the first part of one and attach it to the last part of the other.
so, Japanese becomes Jap--- and then chinese becomes ---nese and voila! you are japnese! that doesn't sound right, so we'll throw an 'a' in there to break it up. VOILA! you are Japanese!.. oh wait. 😳
[trumpet w/ mute plays whaa waaa waaa]

 

[MegaProjectile]

Yeah but specifically this thread refers to UC admissions, it is illegal for the university of california (prop 209) to use affirmative action regardless of the justifications. However the UC med schools just go on right ahead doing so without getting sued somehow.

I think affirmitive action is a federal precedent. So while states can pass whatever laws they want, it must comply with federal precedence or they'll open themselves to lawsuits from minorty groups and women(who tend to discriminated from certain "manly" jobs). The issue of URM has nothing to do with employment or college application which are staples of affirmative action.

Rather, URM is more about increasing the number of underrepresented groups in medicine that will go on to serve their communities. As other posters have stated, the rich black kid and the poor black student are more likely to end up working side-by-side in the same black neighborhood.

 

[ChinaDoll]

0

 

[ChinaDoll]

well, that's easy. you take the first part of one and attach it to the last part of the other.
so, Japanese becomes Jap--- and then chinese becomes ---nese and voila! you are japnese! that doesn't sound right, so we'll throw an 'a' in there to break it up. VOILA! you are Japanese!.. oh wait. 😳
[trumpet w/ mute plays whaa waaa waaa]

LOL

that is easier than I thought...thanks for solving the puzzle for me..

hahaha😛

 

[hopefuldoc87]

I imagine it depends on where you are practicing as well, but I don't think I have ever in my year of working in the ER seen a patient request or deny medical treatment from a particular physician based on race alone. Then again, I imagine most of them are so happy to be seen by a physician that by this point, they would take anyone, regardless of any biases they have.

I never said what you quoted me saying.

I actually agree with your post and was quoting another poster.

 

[rikibamboo]

I think my last post actually more targeted this, but it kinda annoys me to see people agree with this. they do focus on socioeconomic backgrounds...

I know that they focus on socioeconomic backgrounds. But it always seems to be overshadowed by the race-factor. C'mon man, does being Asian/European/African/etc. really matter in comparison to the experience of someone who had to support himself through college while keeping up with the cutthroat stats medical schools require?

Yeah, rich kids have time they can afford to not be paid to do something medical-related but there are others who are busy busing tables since they need to make ends meet. I think it's unfair that just because that person busing tables happens to be Asian that he's automatically put at a disadvantage purely out of his race.

I believe you're taking what I said out of context, I was referring to the admissions policies. The whole "need to serve the underserved" issue is a different matter. Despite Asians being "overrepresented" in the medical field, the Asian community in general still experiences staggering health disparities...why is this so? I think these types of questions are more relevant. I recently read about this Mexican dude who started off as an illegal immigrant then went on to becoming a brain surgeon in the US. No where in the article did it mention him serving the Hispanic-American community and all the pictures I saw in the article had him talking to Caucasian people/families. Just goes to show that on top of all of this, the whole socioeconomic vs. race matter doesn't really act as a good gauge of who will want to serve an underserved community. People should be focusing on how we can make it more appealing for doctors of any background to serve underserved communities.

Don't want to turn this thread into a racial rant. The reality is that race IS a factor. I've come to terms with that. My main question was if they considered Asians in subcategories. Anyone??

 

[herbb]

I went to an interview and there were about 7 asians/south asians (myself included), 2-3 whites, and 1 black girl. I felt a little bit awkward being in the majority.

 

[Narmerguy]

I believe you're taking what I said out of context, I was referring to the admissions policies. The whole "need to serve the underserved" issue is a different matter. Despite Asians being "overrepresented" in the medical field, the Asian community in general still experiences staggering health disparities...why is this so? I think these types of questions are more relevant. I recently read about this Mexican dude who started off as an illegal immigrant then went on to becoming a brain surgeon in the US. No where in the article did it mention him serving the Hispanic-American community and all the pictures I saw in the article had him talking to Caucasian people/families. Just goes to show that on top of all of this, the whole socioeconomic vs. race matter doesn't really act as a good gauge of who will want to serve an underserved community. People should be focusing on how we can make it more appealing for doctors of any background to serve underserved communities.

It's a good thing you saw that picture, else you'd be believing the same lies as everyone else. You should probably forward it to everyone on SDN so they can share in your revelation.

 

[nick_carraway]

I went to an interview and there were about 7 asians/south asians (myself included), 2-3 whites, and 1 black girl. I felt a little bit awkward being in the majority.

As a Chinese American growing up in Silicon Valley, it feels weird when I'm in the minority 🙂

 

[Rendar5]

I know that they focus on socioeconomic backgrounds. But it always seems to be overshadowed by the race-factor.

overshadowed by the race-factor ACCORDING TO PRE-MEDS. I've been through med school already. The administration doesn't put emphasis on that, med students don't, residents don't, residency programs don't. The people who do emphasize it are applicants who don't know better. Sure, it may be a small bonus thing on an application, so is being fluent in spanish, so is coming from poverty, so is working in a soup kitchen.

 

[rikibamboo]

overshadowed by the race-factor ACCORDING TO PRE-MEDS. I've been through med school already. The administration doesn't put emphasis on that, med students don't, residents don't, residency programs don't. The people who do emphasize it are applicants who don't know better. Sure, it may be a small bonus thing on an application, so is being fluent in spanish, so is coming from poverty, so is working in a soup kitchen.

I really don't want to argue about this. Yes, I agree that, in the way things are, they are all factors in the applications with varying weights and are all taken in context with each other. Please, can we just end with that.

The thread's diverting for the original question. Are Asians considered in sub-categories? Asians in themselves are extremely diverse. I, myself, am 1/2 Korean, 1/4 Chinese, 1/4 Japanese. What does that make me? KoJapChin? What about Hmongs or Vietnamese who are relatively "underrepresented" among Asians in medicine?

 

[nick_carraway]

The thread's diverting for the original question. Are Asians considered in sub-categories? Asians in themselves are extremely diverse. I, myself, am 1/2 Korean, 1/4 Chinese, 1/4 Japanese. What does that make me? KoJapChin? What about Hmongs or Vietnamese who are relatively "underrepresented" among Asians in medicine?

You've already heard the answer. Although this is an issue with all self-reported racial surveys, all of your example categories appear on AMCAS (correct me if I'm wrong), and institutions can choose to subdivide broad categories if they want.

Davis, for instance, might care more about Hmong applicants than Miami.

 

[ChinaDoll]

As a Chinese American growing up in Silicon Valley, it feels weird when I'm in the minority 🙂

As a Chinese/Japanese American growing up in the Deep South (South Carolina), it feels weird when I am in the majority...🙄

 

[babydragon]

There are plenty of Asians in northern California, especially in the bay area. Lately, more foreigners from abroad are replacing old white folks. This is scary!