Are basic science papers valued for residency?

[manohman]

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I know that many people publish multiple papers which they can with greater frequency than basic science papers.


Is there any value to basic science papers also on your CVfor residency? even if you have less papers overall?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yes, absolutely. I know it doesn't feel great when your classmate wrote 5 chart reviews in the time it took you to do a basic science paper, but quality>quantity. Anyone in academics knows that it takes way longer to write a basic science paper, and there is a higher degree of difficulty.

 

[Gilakend]

Yes, absolutely. I know it doesn't feel great when your classmate wrote 5 chart reviews in the time it took you to do a basic science paper, but quality>quantity. Anyone in academics knows that it takes way longer to write a basic science paper, and there is a higher degree of difficulty.

What about basic science papers from undergrad/before med school?

I know people always say "a publication is a publication", but how much weight would actually be given to a basic science publication prior to med school?

 

[GoSpursGo]

What about basic science papers from undergrad/before med school?

I know people always say "a publication is a publication", but how much weight would actually be given to a basic science publication prior to med school?

A publication is a publication. You'd better believe I still have my middle author publication from a project I worked on in during the summer between my junior and senior years of high school on my CV 😵

Past performance is indicative of future potential. The world is littered with med students and residents who are eager to "do some research" and then flake when they realize it's a lot more trouble than they thought. The fact that you managed to see a project all the way through to publication is an achievement in and of itself. So make sure that you can discuss what you did on the project and generally remember the main points from the paper when asked, but it definitely counts.

 

[Adjet]

What about basic science papers from undergrad/before med school?

I know people always say "a publication is a publication", but how much weight would actually be given to a basic science publication prior to med school?

It's worth something, but generally the research you do in medical school will be looked at a little more closely. Also there are particular specialties that like to see research in their field.

Are you asking because you're looking to get involved in basic science research in med school or because you have basic science experience prior to medical school and wondering if it's enough research experience for residency?

 

[Gilakend]

Are you asking because you're looking to get involved in basic science research in med school or because you have basic science experience prior to medical school and wondering if it's enough research experience for residency?

I was just wondering for future reference. I'm an M2 currently and the research projects I'm working on got postponed due to covid. I have 0 interest in ever doing basic science research again, but have a couple of publications from undergrad in basic science. Obviously hoping to get some more in med school, but with everything being put on hold it might not be as productive as I initially hoped.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Yes

 

[wanderer534]

Sorry, not to hijack the thread but do publications in non science disciplines (e.g. humanities or social sciences) also help/count?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Sorry, not to hijack the thread but do publications in non science disciplines (e.g. humanities or social sciences) also help/count?

It depends. Probably not as much as a science publication, but if there's some amount of peer-review that went into your publication and there is clear academic rigor in what you did, there's probably some weight to that.

 

[manohman]

Yes, absolutely. I know it doesn't feel great when your classmate wrote 5 chart reviews in the time it took you to do a basic science paper, but quality>quantity. Anyone in academics knows that it takes way longer to write a basic science paper, and there is a higher degree of difficulty.

okay thank you so much. I want to move into clinical but have not had the opportunity as an incoming M1. And im a nontrad of many years so its good to know the work iv done/am doing will be worthwhile.

 

[kopftonmd]

Sorry, not to hijack the thread but do publications in non science disciplines (e.g. humanities or social sciences) also help/count?

I was actually just talking about this with my school's med humanities prof (so obviously n=1 and a bit biased), but he felt they could be very useful. They set you apart in some potentially good ways - lots of med students can do papers on, say, the 'rona, but not many publish full-length manuscripts on Aristotle's Poetics and narrative medicine (random example).

That said, some specialties are almost certainly more receptive to this than others, and it's always good to have some science-y stuff in the CV too.

 

[liquidcrawler]

Would you say basic science papers are valued more, the same, or less? The only reason why I ask is it seems like the people with basic science pubs from my school tend to match top IM residencies. Not granted, that's probably not "causation" because if you're excellent enough to be able to do basic science in medical school, you're excellent enough to match top programs... but I'm wondering still the same.

 

[Dwan]

Would you say basic science papers are valued more, the same, or less? The only reason why I ask is it seems like the people with basic science pubs from my school tend to match top IM residencies. Not granted, that's probably not "causation" because if you're excellent enough to be able to do basic science in medical school, you're excellent enough to match top programs... but I'm wondering still the same.

Depends on the quality of the work and your role/authorship. It's not really as simple as basic vs clinical.

 

[sella.turcica]

Uhm.... yes, very

 

[DameJulie]

Are med students likely to get basic science research from their schools (aside from large academic hospitals with undergrad/grad university attachments)? A few basic science labs I reached out to mentioned that they reserve their work for grad students because med students usually cannot commit to long-term projects

 

[obgyny]

I did a lot of basic science research in college (and worked in a lab for a few years before med school) which resulted in a few pubs. Then did a little clinical research in med school and residency. But I was surprised how many people asked me about my basic science research experience even during my interviews for fellowship (when these publications were ~10 years ago!). It all still counts. A publication is a publication. Include it all on your CV.

 

[AlteredScale]

Are med students likely to get basic science research from their schools (aside from large academic hospitals with undergrad/grad university attachments)? A few basic science labs I reached out to mentioned that they reserve their work for grad students because med students usually cannot commit to long-term projects

Probably not going to get a spot unless you’ve actually had basic science research experience under your belt and can commit more than a 1 month which is usually barely enough time to learn a new technique albeit use it optimally you run an experiment.

I committed 3-4 months of my third and fourth year to a basic science lab to learn the technique well and actually help do experiments. Once things started getting crazy for me I was delegated to semi-quant analysis of IHC/IF which was fine but kinda boring.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Would you say basic science papers are valued more, the same, or less? The only reason why I ask is it seems like the people with basic science pubs from my school tend to match top IM residencies. Not granted, that's probably not "causation" because if you're excellent enough to be able to do basic science in medical school, you're excellent enough to match top programs... but I'm wondering still the same.

As others have said, it all has to do with the quality of the work (ie where you published) and where you are in the author list. Anyone can get a paper accepted to a predatory journal, but if you publish in a legit journal (impact factor 2.5-6, doesn't need to be Cell or Science Translational Medicine or anything) that says a lot about your commitment.

Are med students likely to get basic science research from their schools (aside from large academic hospitals with undergrad/grad university attachments)? A few basic science labs I reached out to mentioned that they reserve their work for grad students because med students usually cannot commit to long-term projects

This is true. You really can't get anything meaningful done in basic science in <1 year, and 1 year is on the very short end of it. It's hard to appreciate this, but every figure that goes into a basic science journal is almost always 3-4 months of work, MINIMUM, so just multiply that by 5-10 figures and it quickly becomes apparent why things take so long in basic science. And why, if you can successfully publish a first-author basic science paper, it's seen as extremely impressive. I've been in a basic science lab during my fellowship, and only now after 3 years are we finally getting ready to submit my paper.

 

[AlteredScale]

As others have said, it all has to do with the quality of the work (ie where you published) and where you are in the author list. Anyone can get a paper accepted to a predatory journal, but if you publish in a legit journal (impact factor 2.5-6, doesn't need to be Cell or Science Translational Medicine or anything) that says a lot about your commitment.

This is true. You really can't get anything meaningful done in basic science in

Thank god im getting a guaranteed three years to work in the lab [emoji24]

 

[Patros]

Would you say basic science papers are valued more, the same, or less? The only reason why I ask is it seems like the people with basic science pubs from my school tend to match top IM residencies. Not granted, that's probably not "causation" because if you're excellent enough to be able to do basic science in medical school, you're excellent enough to match top programs... but I'm wondering still the same.

"Top" IM residencies are generally heavily academic ones in research-intensive institutions. So they are looking for candidates who are likely to pursue a career in research and become PIs. This is the reason why MD-PhD students have a relative advantage in matching to those institutions, as well as MD students with a demonstrated interest in academia. Basic science is basically the purest form of academic research so it shouldn't surprise you the students that have experience in it and say in their applications "I want to pursue this in my career" will have a big advantage in matching to academic residency spots. I should also add that some fields like IM, peds, pathology are pretty big on basic science experience, while it could actually hurt you for other fields that don't care for it.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm trying to think who has time for basic science research in med school unless they're MSTP

 

[GoSpursGo]

I'm trying to think who has time for basic science research in med school unless they're MSTP

Again, unless you're MSTP or doing one of those one year "research tracks," or maybe you're continuing research that you did as an undergrad, you probably don't have enough time. Unless one is willing to commit that amount of time or comes in with significant basic science background (in which case, if you have that background and care enough to do some research on the side, why AREN'T you considering MSTP or research track), I don't think it makes a ton of sense to try and "dabble" in a basic science lab. You're not going to have enough time to get even a poster out of it, let alone a publication.

 

[Lawpy]

Again, unless you're MSTP or doing one of those one year "research tracks," or maybe you're continuing research that you did as an undergrad, you probably don't have enough time. Unless one is willing to commit that amount of time or comes in with significant basic science background (in which case, if you have that background and care enough to do some research on the side, why AREN'T you considering MSTP or research track), I don't think it makes a ton of sense to try and "dabble" in a basic science lab. You're not going to have enough time to get even a poster out of it, let alone a publication.

Ok thanks, that clarifies it. I agree with everything you stated

 

[liquidcrawler]

Again, unless you're MSTP or doing one of those one year "research tracks," or maybe you're continuing research that you did as an undergrad, you probably don't have enough time. Unless one is willing to commit that amount of time or comes in with significant basic science background (in which case, if you have that background and care enough to do some research on the side, why AREN'T you considering MSTP or research track), I don't think it makes a ton of sense to try and "dabble" in a basic science lab. You're not going to have enough time to get even a poster out of it, let alone a publication.

Ok thanks, that clarifies it. I agree with everything you stated

Though its anecdotal, I'd just like to confirm this. I was able to carry on an extensive basic science project (first author in journal with IF > 10) because I continued a project from undergrad → gap year → med school (all at the same institution). I have a friend who came to the institution for med school and decided to dabble in basic science for the summer. He was able to get a poster at a conference, and is maybe hoping to be middle author in a later publication. It is possible to be involved in basic science as a med student, but you have to keep your expectations realistic if you are starting from scratch at a new place.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Though its anecdotal, I'd just like to confirm this. I was able to carry on an extensive basic science project (first author in journal with IF > 10) because I continued a project from undergrad → gap year → med school (all at the same institution). I have a friend who came to the institution for med school and decided to dabble in basic science for the summer. He was able to get a poster at a conference, and is maybe hoping to be middle author in a later publication. It is possible to be involved in basic science as a med student, but you have to keep your expectations realistic if you are starting from scratch at a new place.

Good for you! I suspect the lion’s share of the work was done before you matriculated? In that case it makes perfect sense why you had significant motivations to see what you had already started through.

Not sure if your friend’s poster was at a school research day, but if it was at a legit regional or national conference then that’s impressive. Even school research day is fine—at least you have something to show for your work which is really all you can hope for. I would say that if you’re going to dabble with basic science, the summer is definitely the only time I would—I think it would be really hard to build any momentum while juggling coursework. The setting also definitely matters—if your school had a formal summer program where they set students up with mentors who know how to direct them towards a project where they can at least get a poster at the end of the summer, that’s great; if you’re kind of making something up with a mentor on your own, I think the odds of having nothing to show for your time in the lab is higher.

Personally, if basic science is really of interest to you, I would take a longer dedicated time for research through one of those formal research tracks.if you’re just doing research to check a box, it’s much easier to attach yourself to some clinical chart reviews and churn them out. If you really are just “curious” about basic science and want to dabble, summer between M1 and 2 is the time to do it. Regardless of what you decide, try to have something to show for your time on whatever project you work on. Even if it’s a poster at the school research day, if you’re going to spend time on it you should build your CV.