Are booster doses the new toilet paper hoarding situation?

[Birdstrike]

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I know a fully vaccinated doc who went to a pharmacy chain (different location from their first two doses) and told them they "wanted the COVID shot" and said they had no insurance, so they could get a third (booster) dose, without their insurance or anyone else knowing. The rationale was, "It's coming anyways, might as well get it now." I've heard from others they've also heard of people doing the same.

Are people doing this?

Is there any reason to do this?

Are booster doses the new TP?

 

[bravotwozero]

That sounds messed up, but I’m not sure if there’s even enough data right now to draw any conclusions on boosters.

 

[Dral]

My thoughts have always been that a booster should account for genetic shift/mutations in the virus (like yearly influenza).

I read somewhere that effectiveness goes down a predicted 6% per month after vaccination, so while a third vaccine booster could help right now, I'd rather wait for a proper one.

Plus, I wasn't tested, but I am highly suspicious I had it in March of 2020. I had a reaction with my first vaccine (the typical response people get to their second vaccine). I got the vaccine 9 months after I believe I had it, so unless I was exposed again in the interim, I believe I had a good 9 month durable immune response. That's n of 1 of course and everyone's immune system differs obviously.

 

[southerndoc]

I know someone (not a doc) who went to get a booster shot at Walgreens. He was dishonest and said it was his first shot. They caught it because Georgia requires all vaccines to be logged in the Georgia Registry of Immunization Transactions and Services (GRITS) database. Georgia apparently requires that they check the database prior to any vaccine administration. Makes sense as they probably want people to (1) not game the system like the person I know, and (2) try to stay with the same manufacturer if at all possible.

 

[turkeyjerky]

My thoughts have always been that a booster should account for genetic shift/mutations in the virus (like yearly influenza).

I read somewhere that effectiveness goes down a predicted 6% per month after vaccination, so while a third vaccine booster could help right now, I'd rather wait for a proper one.

Plus, I wasn't tested, but I am highly suspicious I had it in March of 2020. I had a reaction with my first vaccine (the typical response people get to their second vaccine). I got the vaccine 9 months after I believe I had it, so unless I was exposed again in the interim, I believe I had a good 9 month durable immune response. That's n of 1 of course and everyone's immune system differs obviously.

I don't really get where people get these numbers from. Just b/c the ab titers go down a little doesn't mean your immunity is waning. That's not (my understanding) how the immune system works.

Seems like facebook is full of these weirdos, hyperventilating over the thickness of the strip on their at-home test kits. I think they're the same docs who admit every patient with a chest or abdomen.

If one's reasoning is that we'll eventually required to get a booster, then why would you get one now, under a false name?

 

[Dral]

Yep, we definitely need more data to make any good conclusions. You are correct (at least by my understanding) that just because titer goes down doesn't mean one's immune system has lost its memory. It COULD somewhat correlate in the case of Covid, but we just don't know entirely.

I've tried to stop driving myself crazy about this on all fronts. I still plan to be careful and follow whatever rules are set out (masks, etc), but I'm done overthinking it...I'm not getting some third 'booster' if it's not recommended...I'm still planning on going on a short vacation next month, etc.

And is that what's going on when I see these multiple pictures of test kits posted? lol. I'm glad I didn't pay them much attention.

 

[Birdstrike]

Considering new variants are breaking through protection from a vaccine targeted toward an old variant, what I'd like to know, is:

Do we need a booster of the vaccine that was developed for the spike protein of the COVID-19 from winter 2020?

Or do we need a booster that's more specific to more recent variants?

 

[Dral]

Considering that current variants are already starting to (partially) breakthrough the protection afforded by the vaccine, what I'd like to know is:

Do we need a booster of the vaccine that was developed for the spike protein of the COVID-19 from winter 2020?

Or do we need a booster that's more specific to more recent variants?

I believe you are correct on the latter.

I've been saying since June of 2020 in conversations with patients that I predict that it's not going away...we will get a vaccine going...we will probably need periodic boosters that account for genetic changes, probably yearly...hopefully they figure out a way to make an influenza/Covid vaccine that combines the two together so we only need to get jabbed once yearly.

 

[Birdstrike]

I predict that it's not going away...we will get a vaccine going...we will probably need periodic boosters that account for genetic changes, probably yearly...

That's what I've been thinking all along, also. But this third "booster" that people are getting, isn't a new vaccine targeted to new and current variants. It's the same vaccine that was based off the genetic code of the original variant, which is mostly defunct. I realize there is a lot of cross similarity among all the variants and that a vaccine (or booster) doesn't have to be 100% specific to a specific variant, to offer some benefit. But wouldn't it be better to tweak the formulation to make it a bit more current, a la the yearly flu vaccine?

Or is this a profitability concern, where it's cheaper and more profitable to churn out the old model, as opposed to spending the money to update the model?

 

[Dral]

I hope there are folks in R&D whose current job (and moving forward) it is to keep up with the variants that arise and develop updated boosters. If money enters in the equation (doesn't it always?), I hope that people realize the lost money productivity of those affected yearly by Covid more than encompasses cost of development and implementation of updated boosters. I'm not sure where the government or national/international funding steps in on that one.

 

[turkeyjerky]

I hope there are folks in R&D whose current job (and moving forward) it is to keep up with the variants that arise and develop updated boosters. If money enters in the equation (doesn't it always?), I hope that people realize the lost money productivity of those affected yearly by Covid more than encompasses cost of development and implementation of updated boosters. I'm not sure where the government or national/international funding steps in on that one.

That's an open question (not saying it's wrong). I hope there are people willing and able to do a b/c analysis prior to instituting this. Or we could just sign an open-ended contract giving $30B yearly to pfizer and moderna.

That's what I've been thinking all along, also. But this third "booster" that people are getting, isn't a new vaccine targeted to new and current variants. It's the same vaccine that was based off the genetic code of the original variant, which is mostly defunct. I realize there is a lot of cross similarity among all the variants and that a vaccine (or booster) doesn't have to be 100% specific to a specific variant, to offer some benefit. But wouldn't it be better to tweak the formulation to make it a bit more current, a la the yearly flu vaccine?

Or is this a profitability concern, where it's cheaper and more profitable to churn out the old model, as opposed to spending the money to update the model?

I think I read somewhere that moderna is currently testing a new formulation targeting against the delta variant spike protein. I would think this is a major benefit of mRNA vaccines--wouldn't they just plug a different sequence into the computers and *poof*. (No idea if it's actually this simple).

 

[Janders]

Back in February moderna made a variant vaccine for B.1.351 (beta) and shipped it for study.

One would assume both Pfizer and Moderna would use one of the benefits of mRNA tech to make a Delta / B.1.617.2 variant spike protein vaccine, but I haven’t seen such studies publicly reported.

 

[thegenius]

I know a fully vaccinated doc who went to a pharmacy chain (different location from their first two doses) and told them they "wanted the COVID shot" and said they had no insurance, so they could get a third (booster) dose, without their insurance or anyone else knowing. The rationale was, "It's coming anyways, might as well get it now." I've heard from others they've also heard of people doing the same.

Are people doing this?

Is there any reason to do this?

Are booster doses the new TP?

Yup I heard this. From an owner of a flooring shop that we might contract with. He felt guilty. I told him it's all good. Apparently he had a robust immune response from the third shot (which is good).

 

[lymphocyte]

I know a fully vaccinated doc who went to a pharmacy chain (different location from their first two doses) and told them they "wanted the COVID shot" and said they had no insurance, so they could get a third (booster) dose, without their insurance or anyone else knowing. The rationale was, "It's coming anyways, might as well get it now." I've heard from others they've also heard of people doing the same.

Are people doing this?

Is there any reason to do this?

Are booster doses the new TP?

My brother has a solid organ transplant. There have been a few small trials that show promise in his case, which we've talked about. No evidence of harm. I think he's going to go for a booster.

I've worried a lot about him over the past 18 months... 😢


"This study showed that administration of a third dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine to solid-organ transplant recipients significantly improved the immunogenicity of the vaccine, with no cases of Covid-19 reported in any of the patients."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108861

 

[Cinclus]

My brother has a solid organ transplant. There have been a few small trials that show promise in his case, which we've talked about. No evidence of harm. I think he's going to go for a booster.

I've worried a lot about him over the past 18 months... 😢


"This study showed that administration of a third dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine to solid-organ transplant recipients significantly improved the immunogenicity of the vaccine, with no cases of Covid-19 reported in any of the patients."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108861

Hopefully it helps out these folks. So far, the only fully vaccinated person I've had to admit with COVID-19 has been immunosuppressed.

 

[Apollyon]

Hopefully it helps out these folks. So far, the only fully vaccinated person I've had to admit with COVID-19 has been immunosuppressed.

I just thought of this: is it an A&I joke to say that you are "immunoimpressed"?