Are DO's still virtually guaranteed to get residencies?

[baratheonfire]

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So I know M.D. students are pretty much guaranteed to get a residency (not first choice, but at least something). From what I've read and heard, DO's and MD's are virtually indistinguishable at this point.

But I've also heard that it's harder for DO's to get residencies. If I were to go to a DO school, would I still be virtually guaranteed a residency? Or is it a common occurrence for DO's not to match after graduation (like caribbean grads)?

 

[0dee]

The only things guaranteed in life are: death, taxes, and MD vs. Do threads on SDN.

 

[chazell]

So I know M.D. students are pretty much guaranteed to get a residency (not first choice, but at least something). From what I've read and heard, DO's and MD's are virtually indistinguishable at this point.

But I've also heard that it's harder for DO's to get residencies. If I were to go to a DO school, would I still be virtually guaranteed a residency? Or is it a common occurrence for DO's not to match after graduation (like caribbean grads)?

Look at the individual school pages they may tell you. The schools I'm looking at in my area have had 99-100% match rate for what is listed.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Check back in a couple years, OP... things are about to get weird.

 

[IslandStyle808]

So I know M.D. students are pretty much guaranteed to get a residency (not first choice, but at least something). From what I've read and heard, DO's and MD's are virtually indistinguishable at this point.

But I've also heard that it's harder for DO's to get residencies. If I were to go to a DO school, would I still be virtually guaranteed a residency? Or is it a common occurrence for DO's not to match after graduation (like caribbean grads)?

At this current point in time placement rate is at 99.41%.

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/medical-students/match_infographic_2015.pdf?sfvrsn=2

If you are ask for 2020, no one can really predict.

 

[baratheonfire]

Check back in a couple years, OP... things are about to get weird.

At this current point in time placement rate is at 99.41%.

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/medical-students/match_infographic_2015.pdf?sfvrsn=2

If you are ask for 2020, no one can really predict.

So DO is becoming a worse prospect as time goes on?

 

[W19]

At this current point in time placement rate is at 99.41%.

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/medical-students/match_infographic_2015.pdf?sfvrsn=2

If you are ask for 2020, no one can really predict.

99.41% seems guaranteed to me... Things won't change that much in 2020...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So DO is becoming a worse prospect as time goes on?

No, you will still pretty much get a residency. If you graduate medical school and can't get into a residency then I guarantee you 100% that it wasn't because of the letters after your name. I am so sick and tired of the dumb SDN posts that have anything to do with MD and DO.

 

[baratheonfire]

No, you will still pretty much get a residency. If you graduate medical school and can't get into a residency then I guarantee you 100% that it wasn't because of the letters after your name. I am so sick and tired of the dumb SDN posts that have anything to do with MD and DO.

Ok good. I really want to consider applying to DO but I just had this nagging anxiety that I would end up with a degree and possibly no prospects.

 

[IslandStyle808]

So DO is becoming a worse prospect as time goes on?

99.41% seems guaranteed to me... Things won't change that much in 2020...

In a worst case scenario, I would say 95-97%, but I believe it will most likely be the status quo at 99%.

 

[W19]

In a worst case scenario, I would say 95-97%, but I believe it will most likely be the status quo at 99%.

Anything >= 95% is guaranteed! That's why it is better to spend an extra 1-2 years trying to get into DO than going to a Caribbean school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Anything >= 95% is guaranteed! That's why it is better to spend an extra 1-2 years trying to get into DO than going to a Caribbean school.

Never was disagreeing with you. With school expansions still outpacing residencies, plus with AOA residences shutting down it is still hard to get a fix where the matching will be at. It will probably stabilize after 2020.

The ones that don't match usually have red flags all over the place whether US MD or DO. So even a bottom of the barrel student will still be fine, who has zero red flags.

 

[baratheonfire]

Never was disagreeing with you. With school expansions still outpacing residencies, plus with AOA residences shutting down it is still hard to get a fix where the matching will be at. It will probably stabilize after 2020.

The ones that don't match usually have red flags all over the place whether US MD or DO. So even a bottom of the barrel student will still be fine, who has zero red flags.

I have a 3.5 gpa and will likely have around a 515 MCAT. Is DO still a good choice for me?

 

[IslandStyle808]

I have a 3.5 gpa and will likely have around a 515 MCAT. Is DO still a good choice for me?

You're fine and as long as you do well in medical school you will match. However, remember that if you have doubts on the DO path (i.e. you want to match into a competitive specialty) then apply MD only the first cycle. If this is your second cycle, then I suggest a combination of MD and DO. Going DO is still a very secure pathway.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

My school had a 99.61% match rate last year....

 

[IslandStyle808]

My school had a 99.61% match rate last year....

So you have finally decided on a school?

 

[Dustbowl12]

To answer your question: Yes you will match

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

So you have finally decided on a school?

Yes! I'll be going to Azcom 🙂 I'm trying to hype myself up with roadtrips now so I can transfer some momentum into my school year when the honeymoon feeling fades and exams slap me across my face relentlessly.
It was a back and forth for a while with the biggest obvious concern being tuition, but I enjoyed meeting the faculty so much that I decided to shoulder more loans for a better personal fit.
I might be ranting about my grave mistake in tears and frustration in a year or so, however.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Yes! I'll be going to Azcom 🙂 I'm trying to hype myself up with roadtrips now so I can transfer some momentum into my school year when the honeymoon feeling fades and exams slap me across my face relentlessly.
It was a back and forth for a while with the biggest obvious concern being tuition, but I enjoyed meeting the faculty so much that I decided to shoulder more loans for a better personal fit.
I might be ranting about my grave mistake in tears and frustration in a year or so, however.

Happiness can't be measured. I believe the gut feeling is most important of all. Congrats on your acceptance!

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

Happiness can't be measured. I believe the gut feeling is most important of all. Congrats on your acceptance!

Thank you 808! Here's to good health, good people and a good career 🙂

 

[baratheonfire]

My school had a 99.61% match rate last year....

These numbers are for graduating seniors?

 

[Goro]

Yes, but I suspect that after 2020, it may be much more limited to Primary Care.


Time will tell

So I know M.D. students are pretty much guaranteed to get a residency (not first choice, but at least something). From what I've read and heard, DO's and MD's are virtually indistinguishable at this point.

But I've also heard that it's harder for DO's to get residencies. If I were to go to a DO school, would I still be virtually guaranteed a residency? Or is it a common occurrence for DO's not to match after graduation (like caribbean grads)?

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Dustbowl12]

DO's being relegated to primary care post 2020 is a doomsday theory with literally no evidence.

 

[mathnerd88]

DO's being relegated to primary care post 2020 is a doomsday theory with literally no evidence.

It is quite possible...it really depends if you're an optimist or a pessimist. I like to err on the side of caution and say that most DO's will go into primary care. (It is already true now.)

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[mathnerd88]

Majority of DO matches into the competitive specialties was due to AOA spots, which are no longer available after the merger. There will be a huge jump in matching into primary care.

Aren't most AOA spots now ACGME? I know some will be closed down, but most will remain intact right?

 

[Dustbowl12]

AOA spots are not all disappearing a small minority are. Plus look at Osteopathic GME expansion this last year it was amazing. Sorry folks, everything is fine. New school list has also shrunk to 8 schools. Next step is improving clinical rotations 3rd and 4th years for schools, this is unacceptable currently at some programs

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[PathoTurnUp1865]

Many published graduation rates are 5-6 years, so like a year or two from graduating 95%+ students are getting into a residency.

As for the DO degree, it's easy to see that most/if not all students (except maybe 5%, top students) will now be relegated to primary care specialties due to the merger.

This is not true lol, over half of my school matched outside of primary care, in ACGME. A lot of DO schools have this trend. Don't spread false information without evidence to support your claim.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[Medschoolornah]

People now from DO schools are already matching at allopathic residencies that aren't primary care. why would this go down.... makes no sense to me. the only thing i can see is if ENT or neurosurgery DO programs close, then yes it will be harder to attain those careers as a DO

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

"Jan. 11: The ACGME announced that many fellowships will now accept the COMLEX-USA examination on equal footing with the USMLE. This change is specifically related to the "exceptionally qualified candidate" provision included in the ACGME's new Common Program Requirements. If an individual applies to a fellowship program based on this provision and has successfully completed Levels 1, 2 and 3 of COMLEX-USA, he/she will not be required to take the USMLE. This only applies to residents who graduate from a residency program with pre-accreditation, and not all subspecialties accept the exceptionally qualified candidate pathway. The ACGME will be issuing guidelines to assist fellowship program directors in determining whether individual applicants are eligible for appointment."

When they say exceptionally qualified, does that mean those that match ACGME only on COMLEX are having their scores translated to USMLE, and are determined to have a higher score than their MD peer applicants?

 

[IslandStyle808]

AOA spots are not all disappearing a small minority are. Plus look at Osteopathic GME expansion this last year it was amazing. Sorry folks, everything is fine. New school list has also shrunk to 8 schools. Next step is improving clinical rotations 3rd and 4th years for schools, this is unacceptable currently at some programs

The last update in the AOA to ACGME assimilation.

From Cubsfan10

Update:

Neurosurgery already had to have its submissions in. There were 7 programs in the AOA match this year with 13 spots. 6 programs have filed for pre-accreditation.

These fields will need to submit their pre-accreditation by June 30th of this year:
- 155 general surgery positions (49 programs) in the AOA match. 23 programs thus far have submitted = 47% of programs
- 121 orthopedic surgery positions (40 programs) in the AOA match. 17 programs thus far have submitted = 43% of programs
- 19 ENT positions (13 programs) in the AOA match. 7 programs thus far have submitted = 54% of programs
- 16 ophtho positions (10 programs) in the AOA match. 1 program thus far has submitted = 10% of programs
- 22 urology positions (11 programs) in the AOA match. 8 programs have thus far submitted = 73% of programs
- 24 radiology positions (11 programs) in the AOA match. 8 programs have thus far submitted = 73% of programs

4 year programs need to submit by Dec 31, 2016 and 3 year programs by Dec 31, 2017.

These are the five year programs who have to submit their application by this year. I wouldn't call this a small minority, but still a small amount of have opted out (some have still yet to apply as well).

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

What I mean is, before AOA spots were only open to DO, and some where also open to MD if they had OMM training. Now these AOA spots are ACGME accredited and open to MDs, why would they accept DOs who have typically lower quality of education and/or stats?

Yes some MDs will match into these programs. The MDs applying to these programs won't be world beater MDs. They will be the average ones and the good DO students should be able to compete. You are seriously fear mongering here with nothing to prove your point.

That's before the merger. Furthermore, how many of those matches were in desirable locations? Probably a lot of rural areas that are less competitive. Once the merger is complete, it will be even more competitive for DOs.

Plenty of DOs matched great programs that were not primary care before the merger. This won't change in the slightest. Maybe only the top DOs will be able to get ENT or Derm but there are way more specialties out there that already accept DOs frequently. Once again there is nothing to prove your point. The world isn't divided into Derm at MGH and FM in whoville

 

[DrMikeP]

Ok good. I really want to consider applying to DO but I just had this nagging anxiety that I would end up with a degree and possibly no prospects.

If you do well in DO programs and on the exams then you'll have a very very strong likelihood of getting a residency somewhere. If you goof off you'll likely be out or fall into that 1% who don't place (there's a good reason that most of those didn't place!!)

For a competitive residency you'll need to do very well in DO and well in MD.

For a highly competitive residency you need to consistently knock the ball out of the park with a DO, where for an MD it's a bit easier but not that much. For an extremely highly c. r. for best chances you need to go to that handful of top MD schools known for producing such.

This might change in 5-10yrs for incoming classes if the number of DO & MD schools keep growing rapidly but I wouldn't worry too much right now.

 

[Mad Jack]

Many published graduation rates are 5-6 years, so like a year or two from graduating 95%+ students are getting into a residency.

As for the DO degree, it's easy to see that most/if not all students (except maybe 5%, top students) will now be relegated to primary care specialties due to the merger.

There's a lot of less competitive specialties out there- I don't know where this "forced into primary care" nonsense is coming from.

Anesthesia, neurology, PM&R, radiology, emergency medicine, pathology, Ob/Gyn, and psych are very DO friendly on the ACGME side of things. Furthermore, IM and peds subspecialties (which is, historically, where the vast majority of IM grads end up) are open to DOs that go into IM and peds. The 5% of specialties that are tough to crack into (ortho, derm, uro, etc) will still be tough to get into, but to say that 95% of DOs are going to end up in primary care is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Mad Jack]

Ok good. I really want to consider applying to DO but I just had this nagging anxiety that I would end up with a degree and possibly no prospects.

Unless you have multiple board failures, you'll match.

 

[W19]

In summary,

DO sucks and MD is the thing!

 

[DrMikeP]

In summary,

DO sucks and MD is the thing!

Evidence that dichotomous thinking doesn't go away just because someone is in med school.

 

[0dee]

You guys act like every person that goes into MD is going to match ortho or derm. The fact is, matching into a competitive speciality is hard regardless of letter behind your name, but admittedly it's way way harder for DOs to match into competitive specialities at well established programs.

Also, there is no such thing as "forced into" primary care as a lot of students WANT to go to FM, IM, etc.. Plus, a lot of DO students are non trads who are not interested in spending +6 years in a surgical subspecialty due to age and other factors.

 

[Weltschadenfreude]

Are DO's still virtually guaranteed to get residencies?

Yes. Unless something is majorly wrong with your academics.

 

[W19]

Yes. Unless something is majorly wrong with your academics.

Can you define 'majorly wrong'?

 

[bahdahboom]

Oh OP..look what you've started.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Oh OP..look what you've started.

Thought the same thing about your last thread.

 

[baratheonfire]

Oh OP..look what you've started.

I don't know, I'm learning a lot more from this discussion than I ever would from google

 

[DrMikeP]

I don't know, I'm learning a lot more from this discussion than I ever would from google

One could learn the same thing from the 10000 previous threads on almost the exact same topic. [emoji12]

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't know, I'm learning a lot more from this discussion than I ever would from google

I know the answer to this question and I have never started a single thread ever!

 

[baratheonfire]

I know the answer to this question and I have never started a single thread ever!

I mean, you chose to respond and I thank you for your input
But my thread isn't really hurting anyone else

 

[IslandStyle808]

I mean, you chose to respond and I thank you for your input
But my thread isn't really hurting anyone else

It's mainly to avoid repetitive threads that happen all at once. This can lead to a lot of spam on the sub-forums. Plus less people would be inclined to read three threads on the same topic versus one (this would lead to less depth in terms of the discussion).