Are EM docs mean?

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I just got an earful from 2 people I know begging me not to be a mean doc like most of the rest.

It seems like every EP I meet is really nice and cares about people, but they say it's because I'm on the inside, whereas most EPs don't care about patients (presumably b/c they don't know them). They say residents are especially rude.

Could it be docs think they are nice but are being misinterpreted or are EPs in general honestly mean and don't care? :oops:

edited! censored! trying to play well with others!!

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ok, first of all, stay away from "they"
"they" is bad peeps

second, no, EP's are not mean. OB/Gyns are mean. Duh. OB-iatches are the worst!

third, EP's just have different perspective...that's there's more to life than treating the chronic hell out of hypertension or lupus or whatever.

I'm not a mod, but let's stay away from other specialty bashing if we can. If you have a specific funny story I think it's great to share it, but generalizations are just that. Just today someone posted how a certain forum that was moved off site were the "divas" of SDN while we are a much more active forum with relatively few if any such moments! Let's keep it up :)
 
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That's an interesting point, Turtle... but do we really have to have intent to be mean? Isn't there a sort of 'niceness negligence' that comes into play, if we simply don't care whether we're mean or not? (cf. the fictional -- and totally awesome -- Dr. House)

True story: I'm working, doing the tech thing, in one part of the ED. A guy comes shuffling down the hall from another part of the ED. He's cursing, loudly, and looking for the exit. He's annoyed because his chronic leg pain got him Ibuprofen today, and his his medical judgement he needed Vicodin. I'm polite; I drop what I'm doing and help him out. As we're walking (slowly), he tells me his tale. Since he wasn't seen where I'm working, I don't know if he's actually been discharged yet, and for all I know he may be getting what he wants, only later. So we go back to where he was seen. Sure enough, he's done, and he's gettng Ibuprofen only. So I walk him to the exit. He's more annoyed now, because I (inadvertently) showed him to be full of crap. I hear his mumbling and cursing slowly recede as he leaves.

Ten minutes later, he's back, and comes to my area again. Now he wants crutches. He got half a block away and the pain, oh the pain. If he can't get "his" Vicodin, can he at least get crutches? Knowing our docs are not mean, and further are not frickin' idiots, and having witnessed this gentleman's particular style of negotiation and conflict resolution, I know a few things:

1) He was assessed thoroughly, and if Vicodin had been indicated, he would have a script for Vicodin. We're not shy at the County.

2) Similarly, if crutches had been indicated, he would have been given crutches. We have plenty of them, and they're adjustable and everything.

3) It's not like we're holding out on him because we'd love to help but we can't spare the Vicodin. And it's not like we're going to offer him crutches as a consolation, the way a restaurant would comp you dessert if the steak is cooked wrong.

So, in a general and professional way, I tell him these things. I am polite. I save him another walk down the hall to where he was seen, because they will say the same thing. And he says,

"I thought this was a hospital."

...which makes no sense at all. Unless what he really means is, "a hospital is where you go when you feel bad, and they have to give you whatever you think you need until you feel better."

And so, as I'm walking him out for the second time, and as he repeats this line, I respond with, "yes, it's a hospital. Where there are doctors to check you out, and decide what you need, and then give you what you need. It's not a walk-in store, where everything is free."

Dude had no response to that. So: was I mean?
 
...which makes no sense at all. Unless what he really means is, "a hospital is where you go when you feel bad, and they have to give you whatever you think you need until you feel better."
That is what he really means. It's what 90% of America means. It's how the public wants healthcare, particularly "emergency care," to work. That attitude by itself produces a huge amount of our problems in the ER.

You'll have to excuse me. I have to go and deal with my 80 yo M who called an ambulance to bring him to the ER for a refill of his gout medicine. He's angry because, even though I did refill his colchicine and gave him some Lortab, we don't have a "service" that will take him home. I've talked to him about this. The charge has talked to him. He wants to talk to me again, probably to reiterate that his son is a lawyer. I'm not making this up.
 
"I thought this was a hospital."

...which makes no sense at all. Unless what he really means is, "a hospital is where you go when you feel bad, and they have to give you whatever you think you need until you feel better."

And so, as I'm walking him out for the second time, and as he repeats this line, I respond with, "yes, it's a hospital. Where there are doctors to check you out, and decide what you need, and then give you what you need. It's not a walk-in store, where everything is free."

I would have liked to see the look on his face when you told him it wasn't drugs-'R-us :laugh:
 
that sounds exciting but how are you guys going to dope me up with haldol when I'm running up and down (I run pretty good) the hall way poking the nurses and docs with my healthy stick?

Don't tell me you have those haldol dart guns, do ya?

You act like this is an unusual situation?
 
That is what he really means. It's what 90% of America means. It's how the public wants healthcare, particularly "emergency care," to work. That attitude by itself produces a huge amount of our problems in the ER.

You'll have to excuse me. I have to go and deal with my 80 yo M who called an ambulance to bring him to the ER for a refill of his gout medicine. He's angry because, even though I did refill his colchicine and gave him some Lortab, we don't have a "service" that will take him home. I've talked to him about this. The charge has talked to him. He wants to talk to me again, probably to reiterate that his son is a lawyer. I'm not making this up.


I had one patient (12 yo male) who was brought in by his mother after being shot in the head with a BB gun. The BB had just grazed the top of his head, nothing even needed staples. He had no LOC, and no other injuries. I evaluated him, and told his mom he'd be okay, and that we'd wash out the wound for him and bandage him up. She immediately flipped out, demanding a head CT for her son right that minute. When I told her that it wasn't indicated and that we had many other people who needed to go to CT first, she wrote down my name and threatened to report me to "DHS". She then stormed out of the ER with her son in a huff. My attending commented that we should have done a CT just to "appease her".

Would you guys have irradiated that kid's brain just to appease the mom?
 
Would you guys have irradiated that kid's brain just to appease the mom?[/QUOTE]

based on what you described -> NO!
 
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I had one patient (12 yo male) who was brought in by his mother after being shot in the head with a BB gun. The BB had just grazed the top of his head, nothing even needed staples. He had no LOC, and no other injuries. I evaluated him, and told his mom he'd be okay, and that we'd wash out the wound for him and bandage him up. She immediately flipped out, demanding a head CT for her son right that minute. When I told her that it wasn't indicated and that we had many other people who needed to go to CT first, she wrote down my name and threatened to report me to "DHS". She then stormed out of the ER with her son in a huff. My attending commented that we should have done a CT just to "appease her".

Would you guys have irradiated that kid's brain just to appease the mom?

I give them my little spiel about a 1/500 risk of brain cancer(based on sketchy data I know) and that I wouldn't do that to my kid and I'm not going to do it to theirs.

end of story

edit: your attending is an idiot
 
MudPhud already said it, but in the spirit of

+pad+

I'll say it this way: wow, based on that story, your attending sounds like an idiot!
 
I give them my little spiel about a 1/500 risk of brain cancer(based on sketchy data I know) and that I wouldn't do that to my kid and I'm not going to do it to theirs.

end of story

edit: your attending is an idiot

Better data on cataracts, and other lens problems.
 
There was recently a patient who came in simply because the BP she got with her home machine was 160/90. This was her third time coming for the same complaint, and third time she was sent home instructed to see her family physician about the issue unless she is symptomatic and there is an emergency.
 
The important question during triage is "What is the EMERGENCY [emphasis on emergency] that we can help you with today?"

That doesn't work. When I tell patients bluntly that their complaint is not an emergency, they always justify it. "But doc, my leg pain for 10 years IS an emergency".
 
Last week I had a young lady get rushed back from triage for chief complaint of "had a stroke last week, having another one now" She was hemiplegic and aphasic Her med and allergy list didn't look like someone who just had a stroke so I took a moment to look her up. Turns out she was a frequent flyer who had recently hit on the stroke routine after her grandmother had had a stroke. She had actually been admitted the week before and had a full workup (echo, dopplers, ct, mri, mra, hypercoag,) before neuro decided she was faking it. I quickly examined her, had the staff do a cath urine so I could document what drugs she was currently abusing, and then told her "there is nothing wrong with you. We need the bed. You are discharged" At which point she jumped out bed, said, "this is bull****!," rapidly got dressed and stormed out with no trace of residual hemiplegia or aphasia. Was I mean? Sure, if I was nice I would have spent the time to find what was so wrong in her life that she needed to be faking a stroke. Was it the right thing to do? Absolutely, we needed the beds for the real emergencies.

The only downside of this is that if she or any of the drug seekers I've thrown out get randomly mailed one of our hospitals patient satisfaction surveys I'm screwed.

Its not Burger King, you can't have it your way.
 
That wasn't mean, though!

Last week I had a young lady get rushed back from triage for chief complaint of "had a stroke last week, having another one now" She was hemiplegic and aphasic Her med and allergy list didn't look like someone who just had a stroke so I took a moment to look her up. Turns out she was a frequent flyer who had recently hit on the stroke routine after her grandmother had had a stroke. She had actually been admitted the week before and had a full workup (echo, dopplers, ct, mri, mra, hypercoag,) before neuro decided she was faking it. I quickly examined her, had the staff do a cath urine so I could document what drugs she was currently abusing, and then told her "there is nothing wrong with you. We need the bed. You are discharged" At which point she jumped out bed, said, "this is bull****!," rapidly got dressed and stormed out with no trace of residual hemiplegia or aphasia. Was I mean? Sure, if I was nice I would have spent the time to find what was so wrong in her life that she needed to be faking a stroke. Was it the right thing to do? Absolutely, we needed the beds for the real emergencies.

The only downside of this is that if she or any of the drug seekers I've thrown out get randomly mailed one of our hospitals patient satisfaction surveys I'm screwed.

Its not Burger King, you can't have it your way.
 
There was recently a patient who came in simply because the BP she got with her home machine was 160/90. This was her third time coming for the same complaint, and third time she was sent home instructed to see her family physician about the issue unless she is symptomatic and there is an emergency.


Those home machines are one of my pet peeves!! :mad: I swear they should take those things off the market! They take thier blood pressure on the same arm 10 times in a row and then when thier arm has had enough and it reads 170/82, they call the ambulance for thier "high" blood pressure. First thing I tell them in triage is to throw that thing in the garbage when they get home. Totally asymptomatic. Had one guy that had a notebook full of recorded b/p's. Highest b/p was 155/80. Yup, dialed 911 for that one.

I don't think EM docs are mean, they just dont have time for hand-holding BS, or people who come to abuse the system. There are sick patients to take care of. I love the doctors I work with in my ER (OK, well except for one), they are a great bunch. Very smart, hard working, and most with great personalities.
 
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