Are my chances high enough without a glide year?

[StericHindrance]

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Hey all,

I'm a senior in undergrad this year, planning to graduate in May. I was a bit late in getting through all of my prereqs, and unfortunately my GPA dropped slightly during my junior year due to some slight depression and maturity issues. My current GPA not including the classes I'm currently enrolled in is:

cGPA: 3.42
sGPA: 3.27

ECs -- I've shadowed at a hospital for about 45 hours one summer, but haven't done much else as far as shadowing. I've been a teaching assistant leading my own discussion section for 4 semesters now for intro and upper-div biology classes (Biological Mechanisms , Evolution/Diversity, and Molecular Bio). Also, I've maintained employment throughout about half of my college career and I'm an officer for a club sport on campus (this year). I've been a member of the club sport and pretty involved for about 2 years now. I'm a member of a few honors societies on campus: National Society for Collegiate Scholars and Alpha Lamda Delta/Phi Eta Sigma. Although I'm not very active in these societies. As far as volunteering, I haven't done much at all, but have been applying as I get more and more time free. I realize this is a huge oversight on my part, but I'm hoping to catch up somehow.

I have not yet taken my MCAT, but am tentatively planning to take it in March/April.

My plan was to do an SMP an then apply for the following year, but the more I read, the more risky an SMP seems for someone in my position. I've also been advised to look at doing undergrad post-bac work. So, I'm currently considering deferring my graduation a year and continuing to do upper-level science classes and research to raise my GPA and strengthen my application.

Are my stats high enough that only one more year of undergrad would raise them enough for admittance? Or do I need the help of an SMP?

Thanks!

-Kevin

 

[blizzah]

Really strong MCAT this year may make you competitive enough to apply this summer.

Then take post-bacc during the year as a precaution and you can update schools if/when you do well in those courses.

 

[Catalystik]

Hey all,

I'm a senior in undergrad this year, planning to graduate in May. I was a bit late in getting through all of my prereqs, and unfortunately my GPA dropped slightly during my junior year due to some slight depression and maturity issues. My current GPA not including the classes I'm currently enrolled in is:

cGPA: 3.42
sGPA: 3.27

ECs -- I've shadowed at a hospital for about 45 hours one summer, but haven't done much else as far as shadowing. I've been a teaching assistant leading my own discussion section for 4 semesters now for intro and upper-div biology classes (Biological Mechanisms , Evolution/Diversity, and Molecular Bio). Also, I've maintained employment throughout about half of my college career and I'm an officer for a club sport on campus (this year). I've been a member of the club sport and pretty involved for about 2 years now. I'm a member of a few honors societies on campus: National Society for Collegiate Scholars and Alpha Lamda Delta/Phi Eta Sigma. Although I'm not very active in these societies. As far as volunteering, I haven't done much at all, but have been applying as I get more and more time free. I realize this is a huge oversight on my part, but I'm hoping to catch up somehow.

I have not yet taken my MCAT, but am tentatively planning to take it in March/April.

My plan was to do an SMP an then apply for the following year, but the more I read, the more risky an SMP seems for someone in my position. I've also been advised to look at doing undergrad post-bac work. So, I'm currently considering deferring my graduation a year and continuing to do upper-level science classes and research to raise my GPA and strengthen my application.

Are my stats high enough that only one more year of undergrad would raise them enough for admittance? Or do I need the help of an SMP?

Thanks!

-Kevin

You aren't giving enough information for me to do precise calculations for you, but making an assumption that you have 90 hours in that 3.42 cGPA, if you get a 4.0 for all of this year and next year, you'd end with a very competitive 3.65. If you are not quite perfect and get a 3.7 for these two years, then you'd end with a 3.53. With the lower number and a particularly strong MCAT, or the higher number and an MCAT of 30, you have decent chance of an acceptance to an MD school without an SMP.

If you got an amazingly high MCAT score, I think that the lack of a consistent and upward grade trend would limit your chances. You really need to get that BCPM GPA higher.

You need to work on the ECs, too. While your shadowing is coming along nicely, you haven't even begun to gain clinical experience, and the average applicant has 1.5 years of that. The teaching is terrfiic, though, and the leadership looks fine. You are also lacking some regular nonmedical community service and research, but with 1.5 years to go, you can hopefully fit them in.

 

[StericHindrance]

Catalystik,

My plan was to do the post-bac to raise my BCPM GPA, and although this semester hasn't exactly gone as well as I'd hoped, if I do well in the next 3 semesters, I can hopefully demonstrate a strong upward trend. Also, that gives me a decent amount of time to get my other ECs together.

What should I be doing in terms of clinical experience? I thought that was what the shadowing was considered to be. I can find some volunteering pretty easily I think at a food bank or something in the area for a few hours a week.

Also, if I stay here for another year, I will be able to do some non-medical lab research and even get credit for it, which would also raise my BCPM GPA I think. In addition, I've been encouraged to run for club president for the club that I'm currently an officer for next year, so that would help with my leadership as well.

If I were to stay for a post-bac, would it be better to apply at the end of this year/summer for entrance directly after next year or to wait and apply with a (hopefully) stronger BCPM GPA and ECs than what I could manage with just the rest of this year? Another pro of waiting the extra year is that my application would go in earlier in the app cycle, since I'll likely be taking the MCAT at the end of this coming summer. I've generally done pretty well on standardized type testing (got a 2020 on my SAT), so I'm still relatively optimistic about my MCAT.

 

[Catalystik]

If you have an idea of how this semester will turn out, maybe you could calculate what your GPA will be after this term:

AMCAS GPA calculator:
http://medschool.ucsf.edu/postbac/pdf/AMCAS%20GPA_Calculator%20Version%204%20Final.xls
Or a modifiable version/also calc BCPM:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=590424

With fewer semesters of GPA repair and/or a lower GPA than 3.7, you would still have a decent chance of a DO acceptance if you do reasonably well in the postbac. It may be necessary to reconsider an SMP if your primary goal is MD.

What should I be doing in terms of clinical experience? I thought that was what the shadowing was considered to be. I can find some volunteering pretty easily I think at a food bank or something in the area for a few hours a week.

Some adcomms think that shadowing alone is sufficient, but to appeal to the greatest number of schools, it's a good idea to do more than a passive observership, and to get experience in a clinical environment where you engage sick people at a hospital, clinic, hospie, rehab facility, or skilled-nursing home. Volunteering over 3-4 hours per week for 1.5 years is generally sufficient. Some get a job, or do clinical research to get the needed experience.

The food bank volunteering sounds perfect.

If I were to stay for a post-bac, would it be better to apply at the end of this year/summer for entrance directly after next year or to wait and apply with a (hopefully) stronger BCPM GPA and ECs than what I could manage with just the rest of this year?

I don't think you should apply with just one good semester on your transcript. Adcomms will want to see consistency in earning good grades and you have yet to begin that from what you've shared. Also, your ECs won't be strong enough by summer 2012 IMO.

 

[StericHindrance]

Yes, my primary goal is to get into an allopathic school, but I have no reservations against getting a DO. I'm willing to do the extra year of GPA repair, which I'm hoping would be pretty good. My freshman and sophomore years went pretty well, with a 3.67 and a 3.76, respectively. I'm not sure offhand what my other GPAs were, but I believe that I can get a 4.0 in the next year and half or quite close to it. This is due to me tackling some non-academic issues in my personal life and being able to really buckle down.

If I were to continue at my current university doing a post-bac, then apply at the end of spring '13, I would hopefully have a significantly stronger application and with my gap year I could increase my ECs further and possibly get a job doing research. That delays me getting into med school another 2 years, but to get into a better school, I think it would be worth it.

Also, it should be noted that I'm not necessarily looking to get into a top-tier med school, I'm more interested in my state school (Indiana University) which is where I'm at now. Also, I'd be interested in mid-tier schools that are relatively close to home if my application was strong enough.

According to my calculations, if I get a 4.0 in all my classes next semester, my GPAs will be:

cGPA: 3.45
sGPA: 3.35

Additionally, if I take the maximum number of credit hours each semester as a post-bac (assuming they are all BCPM classes) my GPAs will look like this:

cGPA: 3.56 (3.60)
sGPA: 3.53 (3.58)

Also, I could raise that a bit more by taking some summer classes, which are the GPAs shown in the parentheses.

Granted, these are speculation and based on best-case scenario. But would these stats, along with more well-developed ECs and leadership, good MCAT, etc make me a strong MD applicant? If so, it seems that doing a post-bad at my current university would be a good idea, at least at first glance.

EDIT: Also, not sure if this matters, but the club I'm in is a martial arts club, and I plan to have my black belt by the end of this coming spring semester. I've also been playing guitar for over 6 years now, so I'm hoping those hobbies can show my dedication to things outside of medicine and academics as well.

 

[sector9]

Additionally, if I take the maximum number of credit hours each semester as a post-bac (assuming they are all BCPM classes) my GPAs will look like this:

cGPA: 3.56 (3.60)
sGPA: 3.53 (3.58)

Also, I could raise that a bit more by taking some summer classes, which are the GPAs shown in the parentheses.

Granted, these are speculation and based on best-case scenario. But would these stats, along with more well-developed ECs and leadership, good MCAT, etc make me a strong MD applicant? If so, it seems that doing a post-bad at my current university would be a good idea, at least at first glance.

If you can pull off the 4.0 in the postbacc to obtain the stats above, do well on your MCAT and build your ECs as you suggest, then yes, you'd end up being quite competitive for allopathic. I'd feel comfortable applying just MD in that situation (hard to say without exact MCAT still).

However, if you wanted to apply earlier (aka after next semester) or if you don't get close to a 4.0, then you will want to include DO schools

 

[Catalystik]

if I take the maximum number of credit hours each semester as a post-bac (assuming they are all BCPM classes) my GPAs will look like this:

cGPA: 3.56 (3.60)
sGPA: 3.53 (3.58)

Also, I could raise that a bit more by taking some summer classes, which are the GPAs shown in the parentheses.

would these stats, along with more well-developed ECs and leadership, good MCAT, etc make me a strong MD applicant?

I don't think I'd use the word "strong," but you could be reasonably competitive. Your MCAT is an important part of how competitive you'd be for MD schools.

In the past three years, for All Applicants applying with a 3.56 cGPA, chances of an acceptance varied by MCAT score as follows:

With a 30, they had a ~55% chance of an MD acceptance.
With a 32, ~64%
With a 34, ~71%.

To check on other GPA/MCAT combination past odds, you can look at sector9's sticky at the top of this forum.

Keep in mind that taking an overly challenging courseload and hurrying the process can lead to disaster for a postbac, as well as for an SMP. It might be a surer path to take things slowly and steadier so you are more likely to get the excellent grades you need. There is no rush to get to this finish line.

 

[StericHindrance]

Ok, that makes sense. I'm thinking that in the postbacc, I can use some of those credits as research credit, which should help lighten the load academically for me. Also, those numbers are based on taking the max number of hours and all BCPM classes, which may be a bit unrealistic. My advisor told me that I could do ~6hrs/semester of research credit, leaving 11 hours each of other science courses, plus summer classes. It may be better to take less, like 14-15 hours each semester and help myself get the 4.0 rather than rushing through it. Then, possibly even get a job in the research lab for my gap year?

Overall, for my situation, would it be better to do an SMP and risk having a less than stellar GPA next semester (due to MCAT studying and app prep) or staying where I am for a postbacc and doing my studying and application stuff in the summer?

I realize that a rather large portion of this decision lays heavily in how well I do on the MCAT and what my GPA ends up being at the end of this semester, as well.

Any other options/suggestions will be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[Catalystik]

Overall, for my situation, would it be better to do an SMP and risk having a less than stellar GPA next semester (due to MCAT studying and app prep) or staying where I am for a postbacc and doing my studying and application stuff in the summer?

Either path works, if your grades are excellent. As the SMP is more expensive, has a preset curriculum, and leaves no room for error, I'd tend to choose the postbac path. Your first priority must be a high GPA for at least the next three semesters. Do nothing that will endanger that goal.

 

[StericHindrance]

Either path works, if your grades are excellent. As the SMP is more expensive, has a preset curriculum, and leaves no room for error, I'd tend to choose the postbac path. Your first priority must be a high GPA for at least the next three semesters. Do nothing that will endanger that goal.

Thank you so much for your help. This is some of the most sound advice I've ever received on the issue, and certainly helps to point me in the right direction.

Anyone else have any input?

 

[StericHindrance]

UPDATE: As finals week continues, this semester is actually turning out to be a bit better than I originally expected. Still trying to make the decision about what I'll be doing next year, and here's what I've got so far for staying in ugrad another year:

I've been strongly encouraged to run for president of my club if I stay, which would give me 3 years as a member, 2 years as an officer. (Also, I'll hopefully be getting my black belt, which may lead to teaching for the club eventually)

I was told by my supervisor that I could probably successfully apply for a TL position at my job, which is kind of like the student equivalent of a management position for hourly non-professional staff.

Staying in my current city would prove much easier to set up shadowing and volunteer work, due to being more familiar with the area, etc. Also, that way I could continue all the ECs I am able to set up this coming semester.

I can take a semi-heavy course load for the extra year in science courses and pick up an extra minor or something of the like to raise BCPM GPA and cGPA. Also, I have been in contact with a professor about working in his lab in the fall and he has already been supportive in writing a letter of recommendation, as well as other professors who may have research positions open (FOR CREDIT*) which would also add to my application and help raise my GPA. Also, this would allow me to devote my summer strictly to MCAT studying rather than doing it during the school year (I plan to follow SN2ed's study guide)

From a personal standpoint, I already have a life and social circle established here and am close to my family which would help with support, etc and allowing me to continue in my personal hobbies and obligations that I have in the area.

Benefits of the SMP would mostly be that it would theoretically allow me to start medical school a year earlier than the ugrad route. Otherwise, it's a more difficult curriculum, I'd be moving away (causing more stress), I may still have a year off afterward, and I would have to be studying for the MCAT during next semester which could cause my GPA to slip and I'd have to get all the other parts of my application together too.

Overall, it seems that staying in undergrad for an extra year is my best route, but I may have missed some important advantages/disadvantages.

Is there anything wrong with this plan that anyone can see? Or any advice or other ideas as to what I could be doing to strengthen my application in the next year or so?


P.S. Sorry for the long post, just looking for a bit of guidance. Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any advice you can give.

-Kevin

 

[Catalystik]

Overall, it seems that staying in undergrad for an extra year is my best route, but I may have missed some important advantages/disadvantages.

Is there anything wrong with this plan that anyone can see?

I see mainly positives. Staying in college for an extra year is a fine idea, as the effect of these grades on your undergrad GPAs will be identical to those of a postbac, though they will appear differently on the application transcript summary, with the senior and super-senior year grades all merged together on the "Senior" line. You can maintain class registration priority by not graduating. If you need school loans, they are generally more accessible if you are still a degree candidate. (And, if you have school loans already, you don't have to start paying them back in 6 months.)

As a side benefit, you can maintain your current ECs, and already have the contacts to locate other opportunities that you need.

A downside could be that your current school is more expensive than a cheaper state school might be.

 

[StericHindrance]

Yeah, I would certainly agree with all of those. Also, I'm in my state school (Indiana) now, so I doubt if I could even find a less expensive school. 😀

Catalystik, do you think the extra curriculars and GPA improvement that I could do here would equal/outweigh the benefits of an SMP? I'm not really sure how much weight is really put into an SMP if there are fewer other EC activities and less of an upward ugrad GPA trend.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[Catalystik]

Excellent SMP grades do not forgive a lack of/weak ECs. As your ECs would be stronger if you remain where you are, that would be a factor that makes the choice superior to moving to an SMP school, where you'd be so busy you'd little time for any ECs at all. An SMP provides it's own upward grade trend, as it can override the undergrad GPA altogether. If you excel. With mediocre performance, it's unlikely that an allopathic med school will ever consider you again.

 

[varsityblue]

You'd probably benefit most from another year of undergrad in addition to a year of either SMP or a master's degree.