Are my hands steady enough?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Khedr

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hello,
I'm a 2nd year medical student, I hope to be a surgeon (maybe ophthalmology or orthopedics or... I don't know) and i'm working for it .
but i'm worried about my hands, I feel that my hands aren't that steady to be do surgeries.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I'm more worried about the fact that it looks like you bite your nails and what appears to be dirt under them.

As one of my attendings used to say, "everyone has a tremor, I just don't want to know how much of one you have". His point was that you rest your hands on something to stabilize them,
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
so there is no problems and I can operate ?
 
so there is no problems and I can operate ?


Why don't you wait until your surgical rotation, see how you do and whether you like it, and get input from your attendings? We're not going to be able to give you a definitive answer either way.

One of my attendings was known as "Shakey Dave". But when SD operated he'd learned things that minimized his tremor and that resulted in beautiful work.
 
I don't know about specific physical techniques to minimize the tremors but they exist. Look for those.
Plus you can try primidone or a BB if the tremor is essential.
Try taking vit B12 supplements, sometimes the myelination is just not optimum and with some supplements the tremor fades away.
 
Tremor is usually not a problem. You find ways to compensate and a beta blocker will drastically reduce it, I take one PRN. I do complex hepatobiliary surgery. I strongly disagree with the whole "you can teach a monkey to operate." Many people suck in the OR. Take way too long. Lose way too much blood. Are too heavy handed with the tissues, make too many inefficient moves. But I don't think a tremor precludes one being an excellent surgeon. My 2 cents.
 
No you can't teach a monkey to operate, and that is the fact also for many medical students/residents! I had an attending that used to tell me that I always found the right "plane" and that made his job easier (having to assist me). I know now what he meant when I have to assist the residents, it does not matter what year you compare, there are some that have the right "surgical" skills even if it is the firs time they are actually doing the case while some still struggle through their 50th appi or choley. They do the case without any major incidence but still, you see that they are not ready to fly solo.

To the OP's question, I do believe tremor matters depending on the surgery you do. I don't think general surgery or orthopedics are out if you have a tremor. As long as you can swing a sludge hammer and hit the nail, you don't even need to know basic medicine for becoming a orthopedic surgeon 😉
On the other hand neurosurgery or fine vascular surgery (plastics) that is another game.

I do go to the gym lifting weights every morning before work, and those days I do biceps/triceps I do have a tremor. My fear is that it is the day I have to do the vascular anastomosis and the tremor will slow me down or impact the en result of the anastomosis. For appies, choleys, SBOs, colon resections and such it has not been a problem a bit.
 
Last edited:
Tremor is usually not a problem. You find ways to compensate and a beta blocker will drastically reduce it, I take one PRN. I do complex hepatobiliary surgery. I strongly disagree with the whole "you can teach a monkey to operate." Many people suck in the OR. Take way too long. Lose way too much blood. Are too heavy handed with the tissues, make too many inefficient moves. But I don't think a tremor precludes one being an excellent surgeon. My 2 cents.
What percentage of trainees that you've worked with would you say sucked in the OR?
 
What percentage of trainees that you've worked with would you say sucked in the OR?

Being a bad "operater" has less to do with how well your hands move and more to do with how well your brain can synthesis the anatomy in front of you in my opinion. If you have shaky hands but can easily identify structures, enter the correct planes and have logical step-wise approach to the procedure with no wasted movements you are going to be amazing compared to the person whose hands are completely still but fumbles around looking for structures.
 
Being a bad "operater" has less to do with how well your hands move and more to do with how well your brain can synthesis the anatomy in front of you in my opinion. If you have shaky hands but can easily identify structures, enter the correct planes and have logical step-wise approach to the procedure with no wasted movements you are going to be amazing compared to the person whose hands are completely still but fumbles around looking for structures.
I agree, and wasn't asking about shaky hands vs not. I was asking about sucking in the OR, as defined by @toxic-megacolon in is post above "Take way too long. Lose way too much blood. Are too heavy handed with the tissues, make too many inefficient moves." Other things that seem important to me based on my limited experience in the OR and posts/books I've read include finding the right bloodless planes of dissection, economy of movement, mental organization of the case as a whole. Sid Schwab talks about it in his book as well:

"Being a great surgeon is not about having fast hands or making flashy moves. It’s about knowing exactly what you want to accomplish, and doing it without wasted motion. Knowing the right thing to do, and doing it right the first time (rarely can a second attempt be executed without exacting a toll on the patient). Anticipating, adjusting. Understanding and being able to find the precise layers and planes between tissues and working within them. Many surgeons don’t. I had a teacher in high school, the baseball coach, who liked to say that the best outfielder is the one always making an easy catch. He knows the game situation, watches the catcher set up, sees the signs, figures where he needs to be. You can’t avoid all circus catches, but they ought to be rare. Surgery is the same. You admire the surgeon who stops the bleeding, gets out of a tight spot, stays at the bedside in the ICU. I do too. More, I admire the one who knows how to avoid all that stuff in the first place. A great surgeon makes it look easy"

and

" Being a good surgeon has much less to do with flash and technical brilliance, than it does with being able to think ahead, be efficient, and know the shortest line between points A and B; in other words, having a certain type of decision-making capability. Much of it can be taught, I guess. But a critical portion is about how one’s mind works. Like music. Some have it, some don’t. Not everyone who lacks it chooses another profession"

So my question is about those skills, not about beautifully moving tremorless hands or whatever else the typical SDN premed is asking about regarding surgery ("should I take up knitting and sculpting to prepare to be a surgeon??!? I draw really well will I be a good surgeon??"). Obviously there is going to be a spectrum and its not black or white, but would you say a good portion of residents lack the skills to be a great surgeon in the OR? How much of that is teachable? Does it even matter? What do you think makes someone a great technician? When you see another surgeon operate, what impresses you or makes you cringe?
 
There are some operations in which less tremor would be nice. I know several people who don't drink coffee if they're going to be doing coronary surgery (especially off pump).

However, even people who don't normally have tremors can develop one in certain situations.

Tremor is usually not a problem. You find ways to compensate and a beta blocker will drastically reduce it, I take one PRN. I do complex hepatobiliary surgery. I strongly disagree with the whole "you can teach a monkey to operate." Many people suck in the OR. Take way too long. Lose way too much blood. Are too heavy handed with the tissues, make too many inefficient moves. But I don't think a tremor precludes one being an excellent surgeon. My 2 cents.

Random necro-bump, though the boards have been slow, so probably not a bad idea. I got distracted and wandered into the EM sub-forum. That was interesting.

Some of the best surgeons I've ever seen operate have tremors. Many of them are extraordinarily fast even though they don't move quickly. They just have incredible economy of motion and more than anything else... make great decisions (what plane to get into; how to trim the patch; how to set up the exposure; correct needle angle; etc.).

Being a bad "operater" has less to do with how well your hands move and more to do with how well your brain can synthesis the anatomy in front of you in my opinion. If you have shaky hands but can easily identify structures, enter the correct planes and have logical step-wise approach to the procedure with no wasted movements you are going to be amazing compared to the person whose hands are completely still but fumbles around looking for structures.

Definitely underappreciated by students and juniors. In the most complex operations (e.g. severe mitral regurgitation with complex bileaflet prolapse, double outlet right ventricle, etc.), the truly great surgeons are way ahead of us mere mortals, because they have conceived of the problem better.
 
but would you say a good portion of residents lack the skills to be a great surgeon in the OR? How much of that is teachable? Does it even matter? What do you think makes someone a great technician? When you see another surgeon operate, what impresses you or makes you cringe?

I would say most residents have what it takes to be a surgeon (meaning safe and competent) what makes you a great surgeon i have yet to figure out completely

The things that impress me are elegance and lack of waste in operating (something as simple as how you load your needle driver or how you buzz little bleeders). I think most people will agree with me when i say that there are two types of fast surgeons, the ones who never seem like they are in a hurry and beautifully dissect and those who appear they are in a rush and may be doing some steps too quickly (which is where the heavy handling and disrespect of tissue comes into it).

This obviously is disregarding those peds cardiac people, they are damn insane and i got no idea how they do that
 
It depends a lot on what type of tremor you have. Resting or postural tremor should not be a problem. Some action tremor might be. An intention tremor is the worse thing I guess.

I have seen some real shaky surgeons. I would say they can be almost anywhere (if no major action or intention tremor) on the bell curve, it seems - as mentioned previously in this thread - that many other factors are important.
 
Top