Are Ophthalmology residents a lazy bunch?

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EyeAmSilly

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I was an ophthalmology resident until only about a year ago. I first had contact with them as a med student, then a resident, then a fellow.

Does anyone else think they are a lazy bunch?

Here's my evidence:
1. Always trying to get out of clinic. In one program, the 3rd years purposely did pre-ops slowly so that the junior residents saw all the clinic patients.

2. Always trying to refer patients to another clinic, either another sub-specialty or even another department. This might be partly because the attending doesn't want responsibility or has a habit of consults. On the other hand, ophthalmology residents never want to know about anything else in the body, unlike some residents in other specialties who have a mild interest outside their specialty.

3. Always trying to get the PGY-1 spot that has the laziest schedule and which allows the worst work ethic.

4. Often want to shove the patient out of clinic, skipping refraction whenever possible, trying to avoid doing a dilated exam, skipping steps of a glaucoma follow-up and trying to have stuff done by another resident in 3-4 months, trying to do the minimum on a visit (such as "come back for a visual field then do nothing on that visit except look at the results").

5. Some programs have residents who go on a witch hunt looking for cataracts and avoiding everything else. Not all programs are like that.

This is not to say that ophthalmology residents are all bad. A lot of them like to read a lot. This is not to say that optometry students are any better. A lot of them have poor work ethic and no desire to learn very much.

Within ophthalmology, there seems to be behaviors among different sub-specialties. Neuro-ophthalmologist tend to be thinkers. Sometimes, they are perceived to be weird and nerds. That's actually a mean assessment and something that I don't agree with. Glaucoma people have a subset that don't know what they want to do so they do glaucoma. Oculoplastics people do not have a subset of people who just do the fellowship because they don't know what else to do. Retina people are also goal oriented. As far as uveitis, I only know of one recent fellow so it's too small a sample size.

In the old days, ophthalmologists just wanted to make money so nobody wanted to be in academics. Therefore, some med schools didn't have ophtho departments or they just had 2 faculty. That's changed now, possibly because there are more ophthalmologists or because chairmen have learned that ophtho departments can be a moneymaker (A few chairmen even engage in shady financial dealings, but this is off topic of this post). Also in the old days, a lot of departments were so lazy that they wouldn't give any lectures. That's how the long ophthalmology courses (Stanford, Lancaster, Houston) got started. General surgery, OBGYN, radiology and internal medicine don't have similar courses as they give in house lectures

From my experience, residents in some specialties seem to be less selfish, lazy, and cocky. What do you think about ophthalmology residents?
 
Mr. Madison, what you've just typed is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this serveris now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Just kidding. Your opinion is valuable and you should continue to voice it. Perhaps it would be of use to comment on what perspective you are coming from- did you quit an ophtho residency recently? I don't know what value the generalizations you make at the end of your post have.

I mainly responded to quote Billy Madison, but good luck to u anyways. :laugh:
 
GrandMasterB said:
Perhaps it would be of use to comment on what perspective you are coming from- did you quit an ophtho residency recently? :

Quit? I finished! And even got the resident award once!

I could start another post entitled "Are ER residents anti-social and like to make fun of patients and call them derogatory names?" but I won't. Some ophthalmology residents do the above, but not too many of them and not too often.
 
Hey genius....here's a question. Why would you post such a clearly anti-ophtho post on a forum dedicated specifically for ophthalmologists? Sounds like somebody has self-esteem and intelligence issues.

To answer your question, of course we love ophtho residents, and think highly of ourselves.

I thought medicine would be past the point of broad generalizations and stereotypes.....Do all women still clean the home and watch after the kids? Do all men milk the cows and tend to the crops? Should I go on and offend everyone on the planet, or just single out ophthalmologists?
Thanks
 
Jokestr said:
Hey genius....here's a question. Why would you post such a clearly anti-ophtho post on a forum dedicated specifically for ophthalmologists? Sounds like somebody has self-esteem and intelligence issues.

To answer your question, of course we love ophtho residents, and think highly of ourselves.

Jokester believes that one has intelligence issues if there is self reflection of our profession. This is clearly Saddam type thinking, i.e. you disagree with me and you are either crazy or a deadman.

If Jokester thinks highly of herself, she may have an overinflated view of herself.

I think the cause of laziness is that ophthalmology has typically been a hard to get specialty, even more so in the 70's and early 80's. The type of person would could figure out the system might, in some cases, play the game so well that they address only the goal and slack off in areas that they think are not important, such as joke internship or slacking off in clinic.

As far as a joke internship, if program directors wanted to change this, they could have an integrated program where they would have good rotations during the intern year, not just cushy ones.

ENT residents seem less lazy. Maybe if ENT and ophthalmology were still one specialty, things would level out. However, that's impossible now and also a big challenge for ophtho residents to be good at all that ear, facial, neck and other stuff. Furthermore, ophtho residents would have to learn how to do tie knots by hand, something many of them don't do well because it's not needed in cataract surgery.
 
I don't know what a bunch of loosers you did your residency with but don't project your own failings on the profession as a whole.
 
EyeAmSilly said:
As far as a joke internship, if program directors wanted to change this, they could have an integrated program where they would have good rotations during the intern year, not just cushy ones.

ENT residents seem less lazy. Maybe if ENT and ophthalmology were still one specialty, things would level out. However, that's impossible now and also a big challenge for ophtho residents to be good at all that ear, facial, neck and other stuff. Furthermore, ophtho residents would have to learn how to do tie knots by hand, something many of them don't do well because it's not needed in cataract surgery.

What are your objectives with this group of posts? Your stream of consciousness doesn't really come off that well. Not going to waste too much time or brainpower on your disinhibited rant, but here are a couple of thoughts....
When was the last time you (if you're really an ophthalmologist) investigated someone's chest pain or shortness of breath? adjusted someone's fluid balance? Well, not recently...and the difference between an academic hospital IM or surgical internship vs. "cushy" internship wouldn't make a huge difference in your abilities as an ophthalmologist. Are you suggesting that Oph residents prefer these easy ones moreso than do Derm, Rads, or Rad Onc interns? I learned a lot in my internship, but don't think I'd be a better Oph following a more hard-core 1st year.

The ENT stuff makes me laugh. What are you talking about? I think ENT is interesting and have ENT friends, but they would have just as hard of a time with Oph as we would with ENT. They don't know that much about the eye. They do work harder, though. Your suggestion to combine the fields is bizarre.

I don't think you could find many residents out there who read more than Oph residents, either. Who reads more than the equivalent of 13 BCSC texts per year?
 
smiegal said:
When was the last time you (if you're really an ophthalmologist) investigated someone's chest pain or shortness of breath?

The ENT stuff makes me laugh. What are you talking about? Your suggestion to combine the fields is bizarre.

I don't think you could find many residents out there who read more than Oph residents, either. Who reads more than the equivalent of 13 BCSC texts per year?

Some people are really getting hot under the collar. Even though my user name is "silly", there is some truth to what I am commenting on.

An ophthalmologist doesn't have to treat someone's chest pain. However, some ophthalmologist are so unsure of themselves that they don't want to admit any patients without getting a general medicine consult! What's so hard with ordering routine labs, diet, and medication? The consulting internist or family practictioner must think we are idiots! In private practice, some ophthalmologist are not so helpless so you have to give them credit.

Combining ENT and ophthalmology is not bizarre. Not that long ago, the Academy was called the American Academy of Ophthalmology and Otolaryngology. Some of the active AAO members that you see in the meetings joined that Academy before it was split.

Your comment sort of confirms my observation. You say they read a lot. That's not in dispute. One resident I know even read in between patients in clinic and was caught reading, not seeing patients.

In short, about 1/3 of the ophtho residents I know had very good work ethic and about 1/3 were acceptable. However, a stunning 1/3 were downright lazy and tried to avoid work. This was higher than the percentage of lazy residents that I saw during internship and during med school clerkships. The laziness in ophthalmology seemed to be present in med school, in residency at another med school, etc.

Observing and commenting on this kind of behavior should not be politically incorrect. There are some differences in other residencies. For example, anesthesiology attracts foreign medical school graduates, derm attracts women, peds residents have described the men who go into the field as clowns which seems to be consistent with my limited observations as a med student. So we should be honest with ourselves and see that there is a significant streak of laziness among the ophthalmology resident core.
 
Hey, I'm not the only one who has made certain observations about residents. At least, my comments are only an observation which doesn't hurt anyone.

There's a chairman who has made a DIFFERENT observation (which I DISAGREE with and which harms men and degrades women). He said that he chooses his residents based on that observation and opinion. He said something that "there are too many **** ophthalmologists in practice. What I do is hire women residents because half of them have kids, then want to work only part time...or even retire. That's what we need...fewer ophthalmologists". I was a little surprised when I first heard this.
 
EyeAmSilly said:
Observing and commenting on this kind of behavior should not be politically incorrect. There are some differences in other residencies. For example, anesthesiology attracts foreign medical school graduates, derm attracts women, peds residents have described the men who go into the field as clowns which seems to be consistent with my limited observations as a med student. So we should be honest with ourselves and see that there is a significant streak of laziness among the ophthalmology resident core.

so, how would you describe yourself? ...better get back to my "cush" internship....
 
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm going to call your bluff. I don't think you're a fellowship trained ophthalmologist. My guess is that you're a disgruntled med student or intern who is a little jealous of ophthalmology. I can't imagine anyone out of residency who would take the time to create a new account on an anonymous forum to bash their own profession. If I'm completely off, I apologize, and I'm sorry that you feel so strongly about ophtho residents being lazy.
 
I would have to agree with wtwei02.

You would have to be around 29 years old if you finished your residency in ophtho and I find it hard to believe someone of that age could write something so immature.

Heck, if I had my guess, I would say you were a high-schooler. I would be hard-pressed to find college kids to post this kind of nonsense.
 
wtwei02 said:
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm going to call your bluff. I don't think you're a fellowship trained ophthalmologist. My guess is that you're a disgruntled med student or intern who is a little jealous of ophthalmology. I can't imagine anyone out of residency who would take the time to create a new account on an anonymous forum to bash their own profession. If I'm completely off, I apologize, and I'm sorry that you feel so strongly about ophtho residents being lazy.


darrvao777 said:
I would have to agree with wtwei02.

You would have to be around 29 years old if you finished your residency in ophtho and I find it hard to believe someone of that age could write something so immature.


what they said. lock the thread!
 
The fact that ophthalmology residents read/study a lot does not prove laziness, but rather the opposite.

My guess... you are a medicine resident & ordered a STAT in house ophthalmology consult today for something like "rule out diabetic retinopathy" (insert other unneccesary STAT consult) and had your feelings hurt upon being educated that the patient should more appropriately follow up in eye clinic upon d/c later in the week. Not laziness, just appropriate care. Or maybe you're the resident in the ER I spoke with last night who insisted that his patient had a piece of metal on his iris & insisting, upon further questioning, that it "absolutely" wasn't on the cornea (me: "so it's an open globe?" him: "no, because he wouldn't be able to move his eye, then, right?"). I was nice/professional about it (and would have obviously seen the patient either way), but his feelings seemed hurt when I removed the corneal foreign body. Most accusations of Ophthalmology "laziness" re: consults are actually related to the consulting resident's poor understanding of Oph issues, IMHO.
 
I just finished my Sub I medicine month. The entire month was full of residents avoiding call/admits and trying to transfer patients off the floor. The residents would argue about who should get the next admit, AND THEY ONLY HAD 2-3 PATIENTS to begin with... My point being that there will always be laziness... across the board. It doesn't matter what specialty or primary care field you mention. That is life, that is America, and that is the way it is. So quit bashing Ophthalmology. I think you are nuts for coming on this board and posting such a CRAZY post when you have been out of residency for some time. You have a HUGE CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER!!!! It actually makes me laugh....

Good luck and don't let other peoples laziness bother you. Do the best you can for yourself, because honestly as I said above ilaziness is in every field. Actually, it is in every profession.
 
smiegal said:
The fact that ophthalmology residents read/study a lot does not prove laziness, but rather the opposite.

My guess... you are a medicine resident & ordered a STAT in house ophthalmology consult today for something like "rule out diabetic retinopathy" (insert other unneccesary STAT consult) and had your feelings hurt upon being educated that the patient should more appropriately follow up in eye clinic upon d/c later in the week. .

You are wrong! You just proved that ophthalmology residents can be a lazy bunch. (see your quote/1st sentence/above) It's not that they don't read. They read a lot. In fact, they are so selective in how they work that it may be interpreted as trickiness or laziness. Most of us read a lot, but some try every trick to avoid clinical work (except cataract surgery) that it borders on bad behavior. Actually, as I said, I think about 1/3 are selectively lazy and about 1/3 are more or less passable (some laziness).

If you want to compare yourself to a lazy medicine resident, you are trying to compare yourself with another potential slacker. If you compare yourself to surgery and surgical specialty residents (like ortho, ENT, plastics, etc), ophthalmology residents do have poorer work ethic.

What's my reason for posting? It's just some self reflection before the boards. Maybe I should have been selfish and lazy, avoiding work? But then I would have missed some patients that I saw just because I always tried to see more patients is clinic. I'm refering to an INO patient. I only saw one in my residency and it was because I was trying to see as many pt. as possible, not fewer. On the other hand, maybe I would have been more rested and read that one paragraph that I neglected and would have gotten one more question right on the boards.
 
wtwei02 said:
who is a little jealous of ophthalmology.

...forum to bash their own profession. If I'm completely off,

Jealous of ophthalmology? I'm glad I'm in it.

You think that I'm bashing ophthalmology? Then you haven't heard (and I haven't posted) how much more bashing other specialties, such as anesthesiology, pathology, internal medicine, psychiatry, and others that deserve! 😀 I do admire some specialties but not enough to do them. They include ENT, plastics (though there are some aspects of them that can be rightfully bashed, such as how they do facial plastics and oculoplastics), general surgery, ortho, urology, etc. But even these can be bashed a little bit. However, it's fair game to bash yourself (unless you have too weak an ego) and not to be too critical on others (unless you want to be a bully with no self-confidence).

Hey, can't you use self criticism to improve yourself?
 
Either you are on lots of medication (that post above isn't even coherent English) or you are using this message board to do some self-inflation.

I am oh-so-happy for you that you work hard and see patients. But your willingness to work harder than others doesn't mean that the other residents are being lazy.

Since you seem to be so industrious, try working on humility.
 
EyeAmSilly said:
3. Always trying to get the PGY-1 spot that has the laziest schedule and which allows the worst work ethic.

ok for the record, i am post call, so don't worry silly, i am not being "lazy" and leaving some poor patient crumping in the ER to post on this forum. i wanted to touch on the above point. i think cush means different things to different people. yeah, i am at a prelim program that has a reputation of having easier call schedules than most. but there is a philosophy behind what you might perceive as this "laziness." our program believes that residents who get to sleep a few hours on call and get a few weeks to study for step 3 or the medince equivalent of the OKAPS make.....are you ready for this....better doctors! i'm not sure how much better of a doctor i would be being q4 rather than q6 like i am now. you have to admit, a lot of what comes through the ER for medicine admission becomes routine. how often do you really need to admit a "rule out MI," "DKA," or "community acquired PNA" or "CHF exacerbation" to become proficient in primary care? yes, i agree with you and have noted that some subspecialties, esp the surgical ones rely on medicine for some embarassing things such as writing a RISS or "blood pressure control" when the pt has been on metoprolol for 20 years and all they had to do was keep them on the same medication. so if anything silly, i have taken my "cush" internship not as an opportunity to be lazy or bash and stereotype other specialties, but rather to become a better specialist next year when i start my residency at a non-cush program. so silly, i hope you are getting every thing that you wanted out of posting on this forum like you are doing.

warm regards,
 
I am surprised that most people have just attacked and denied everything. I was expecting some give and take and some introspection.

I think it's bad that a significant segment of ophthalmology residents (certainly not all of them or half of them) try to do as little as possible. Compared to different surgical and surgical specialty residents, this kind of behavior seems to be more common in ophthalmology.

For example, when a newly diagnosed patient with cupping comes in, I've seen many residents do the smallest w/u possible and shift most of the work for another resident in the next rotation. What's so hard about gonio? Why just order a HVF and write down all the other stuff in the treatment plan?

When patients need glasses, why make them suffer? If they came in for an oculoplastics appt or for PDT (retina), then it's reasonable. However, that happens a lot even in the general clinic!

Once, a clinic nurse counted the number of patients and some residents were really short on numbers that day because of foot dragging.

Residents should have a heart, consider the patient, and also not try to be too lazy.

(Go ahead and attack me as I won't see it for the rest of today)
 
Speak for yourself or your dysfunctional program.
 
Re consults:

In community practice, your internists will LOVE you for these inpatient consults. While admitting your own inpatients is a money looser, consulting on someone elses inpatients is a fairly decent reimbursement (particularly if you are in the hospital already for your own patients).
 
EyeAmSilly said:
I was an ophthalmology resident until only about a year ago. I first had contact with them as a med student, then a resident, then a fellow.

Does anyone else think they are a lazy bunch?

Here's my evidence:
1. Always trying to get out of clinic. In one program, the 3rd years purposely did pre-ops slowly so that the junior residents saw all the clinic patients.

2. Always trying to refer patients to another clinic, either another sub-specialty or even another department. This might be partly because the attending doesn't want responsibility or has a habit of consults. On the other hand, ophthalmology residents never want to know about anything else in the body, unlike some residents in other specialties who have a mild interest outside their specialty.

3. Always trying to get the PGY-1 spot that has the laziest schedule and which allows the worst work ethic.

4. Often want to shove the patient out of clinic, skipping refraction whenever possible, trying to avoid doing a dilated exam, skipping steps of a glaucoma follow-up and trying to have stuff done by another resident in 3-4 months, trying to do the minimum on a visit (such as "come back for a visual field then do nothing on that visit except look at the results").

5. Some programs have residents who go on a witch hunt looking for cataracts and avoiding everything else. Not all programs are like that.

This is not to say that ophthalmology residents are all bad. A lot of them like to read a lot. This is not to say that optometry students are any better. A lot of them have poor work ethic and no desire to learn very much.

Within ophthalmology, there seems to be behaviors among different sub-specialties. Neuro-ophthalmologist tend to be thinkers. Sometimes, they are perceived to be weird and nerds. That's actually a mean assessment and something that I don't agree with. Glaucoma people have a subset that don't know what they want to do so they do glaucoma. Oculoplastics people do not have a subset of people who just do the fellowship because they don't know what else to do. Retina people are also goal oriented. As far as uveitis, I only know of one recent fellow so it's too small a sample size.

In the old days, ophthalmologists just wanted to make money so nobody wanted to be in academics. Therefore, some med schools didn't have ophtho departments or they just had 2 faculty. That's changed now, possibly because there are more ophthalmologists or because chairmen have learned that ophtho departments can be a moneymaker (A few chairmen even engage in shady financial dealings, but this is off topic of this post). Also in the old days, a lot of departments were so lazy that they wouldn't give any lectures. That's how the long ophthalmology courses (Stanford, Lancaster, Houston) got started. General surgery, OBGYN, radiology and internal medicine don't have similar courses as they give in house lectures

From my experience, residents in some specialties seem to be less selfish, lazy, and cocky. What do you think about ophthalmology residents?

You have lost your mind. What program did you train at? I would like to know. I can tell you that at my institution, ophthalmology residents tend to be busier than residents in most other specialties. There is no down time during the day at all. At our VA, our clinic sees more patients than any other specialty clinic, and we do more surgery than any other specialty. At our university hospital we generally maintain a consult list such that one resident was responsible for following/consulting on 10-15 patients/day in addition to clinic and surgery responsibilities. Similar at our childrens hospital. We also have a very busy clinic at our county hospital and operate every day over there. And also there is another busy residents clinic and 24.7 eye emergency room that must be staffed during the day and night by residents. We have required monthly presentations to give, daily lectures to attend, journal club, and required research.

I would argue quite the opposite. Ophthalmology residents are some of the most motivated hard working residents out there. It is quite necessary to read as much as possible because most medical schools offer very little ophthalmology experience and so it is like starting school all over again for most residents who are starting their first year. Did you learn about macular edema, CPEO, or fuchs' dystrophy in medical school? I didn't.

Maybe you and your co-residents are lazy, you are bitter, or you just do not like what you are doing. Maybe you guys are overwhelmed and just doing the best you can, or maybe you are not an ophthalmologist, I dont know...but you are wrong to make such generalizations. What you say simply is not true of any of the ophthalmology residents I know.

Ophthalmology is a specialty that throughout medical history has led the way in advancing medical diagnostics and therapies probably more so than any other specialty. At my program we are some of the hardest working residents around. The trauma/gen surg residents are sitting on their butts in their "workroom" waiting on the next trauma to come in while we are running with our consult bag to do the next consult at one of five hospitals or trying to get back to the eye ER. It is unfortunate for the rest of us to have somebody like you as a colleague, if in fact you are an ophthalmologist. I think we would all appreciate it if you would refrain from further negative commentary.
 
EyeAmSilly said:
Once, a clinic nurse counted the number of patients and some residents were really short on numbers that day because of foot dragging.

Well, that proves your point for sure then. I don't see the need for any further discussion since it happened that one time.

I'm glad I didn't go to your program. Maybe I would have been just as bitter and deluded as you. Care to tell us where you went, or do you plan on just continuing to generalize your (supposed) experience to insult everyone else?
 
I have to agree with the guy that started this post. I think that we can be lazy. That's not to say that all ophtho residents are lazy, but some are. There are some in my program, just like there are some in every program. It does frustrate me because I (and most of the others who aren't like them) have to pick up their slack. Don't try and fool around with this idealistic thinking that everyone who does ophthalmology is a dedicated hard worker. Most are, but there will always be a few (in any specialty). And, by the way, I am in a top tier residency program, and a very busy one (don't necessarily think that better programs have the hardest workers).

I consider myself a hard worker, but I have been just as guilty as everyone else who posts here has (or soon will be) of little things like not refracting to save time. I don't ever do some of the other things that were mentioned (like dumping on other subspecialties without need - I want to know how to
handle everything, or getting medicine consults on everyone - I've managed coags, lytes, BP, etc within reason, or not doing a necessary part of the exam like a DFE or gonio, you know what I mean). I think that most clinics are just very busy and sometime when you're in a time crunch you dont have time for everything. Every specialty is like that , everyone dumps something- do you really think that the surgery resident checked the pts pupils - No, he just wrote PEARL

I think that we do have it easier than most surgical fields. But it usually seems that the people who are willing to work harder go into the tougher suspecialties like plastics and retina. "Better residents" get better training because you get out of it what you put into it.

I don't really know what the point of this post was, maybe it is that we as ophtho residents are still regular people and there will be many types of personalities and a different work ethic amongst us. Maybe it's that alot of you are trying to argue about something that you have yet to actually start and that the guy who began this thread actually has a valid point (although not specifically about ophthalmology)

All that said, we all are in the BEST field in medicine - enjoy it and take advantage of it, even when you are getting beat down (easier said than done!)
 
shredhog65 said:
I have to agree with the guy that started this post. I think that we can be lazy. That's not to say that all ophtho residents are lazy, but some are. There are some in my program, just like there are some in every program. It does frustrate me because I (and most of the others who aren't like them) have to pick up their slack. Don't try and fool around with this idealistic thinking that everyone who does ophthalmology is a dedicated hard worker. Most are, but there will always be a few (in any specialty). And, by the way, I am in a top tier residency program, and a very busy one (don't necessarily think that better programs have the hardest workers).

I consider myself a hard worker, but I have been just as guilty as everyone else who posts here has (or soon will be) of little things like not refracting to save time. I don't ever do some of the other things that were mentioned (like dumping on other subspecialties without need - I want to know how to
handle everything, or getting medicine consults on everyone - I've managed coags, lytes, BP, etc within reason, or not doing a necessary part of the exam like a DFE or gonio, you know what I mean). I think that most clinics are just very busy and sometime when you're in a time crunch you dont have time for everything. Every specialty is like that , everyone dumps something- do you really think that the surgery resident checked the pts pupils - No, he just wrote PEARL

I think that we do have it easier than most surgical fields. But it usually seems that the people who are willing to work harder go into the tougher suspecialties like plastics and retina. "Better residents" get better training because you get out of it what you put into it.

I don't really know what the point of this post was, maybe it is that we as ophtho residents are still regular people and there will be many types of personalities and a different work ethic amongst us. Maybe it's that alot of you are trying to argue about something that you have yet to actually start and that the guy who began this thread actually has a valid point (although not specifically about ophthalmology)

All that said, we all are in the BEST field in medicine - enjoy it and take advantage of it, even when you are getting beat down (easier said than done!)

It is true that there will be lazy people in every specialty, but I do not believe the generalization that Ophthalmologists as a group are lazier than others. Not true.
 
1. We admit we are powerless over laziness
2. A Power greater than ourselves can restore our work ethic
3. We turn our will and our lives to God
4. Make a moral inventory of our laziness
5. Admit to God, to ourselves, and to EyeAmSilly the nature of our laziness
6....

EyeAmSilly, is this what you wanted to hear? 😕 I don't see how what you're doing is a constructive use of this forum. If anything, you've started a debate where there are no winners.
 
anycoloryoulike said:
1. We admit we are powerless over laziness
2. A Power greater than ourselves can restore our work ethic
3. We turn our will and our lives to God
4. Make a moral inventory of our laziness
5. Admit to God, to ourselves, and to EyeAmSilly the nature of our laziness
6....

EyeAmSilly, is this what you wanted to hear? 😕 I don't see how what you're doing is a constructive use of this forum. If anything, you've started a debate where there are no winners.

I tried that earlier this month, but have already "fallen off the slit lamp", so to speak. 😉
 
This post is a bit funny. I'd have to say that I've seen a streak of laziness in ophthalmology residents. However, not everyone has it. When they have it, it seems to be selective laziness, i.e. read a lot and try to hoard cataract surgery, but try to get out of clinic or do less while in clinic. I think if someone doesn't like clinic, they should do a specialty that does more surgery than ophthalmology.

Here's something new to add to the discussion. If you are lazy, maybe it will come around and bite you indirectly, or at least, you may suffer bad luck unrelated to laziness.

By seeing more in clinic, you'll see more rare entities. I don't know how my residency compares with others, but I saw 3 newly diagnosed (not follow-up) retinoblastomas as a resident. I just checked them out to the attending but the other residents weren't around to see it. Leber's stellate neuroretinitis, morpheaform basal cell, orbital varix, and some others come to mind without thinking. When I saw these things, I checked them out with the attending, but never presented it to grand rounds because there never was a chance. Again, some people in other programs might say "oh, we see hundreds of those every day and we also do 1000 cataract surgerys per resident...in their PGY-2 year" and good for you if you are in such a program.

The tricky/lazy residents may have had a lighter work schedule but they didn't end up better. One of them dropped nucleus (nuclei) a lot and now practices in a lousy town. Another is such an idiot and misses so many important (or even vision threatening stuff) that I didn't want to take call with her. Still another, isn't doing that well after finishing. Yet another one of them is managing to pull the wool over peoples' eyes but I don't envy him. For me, that works about to 25% of ophthalmology residents that I've worked with.

Laziness seems to be based on the rotation, too. When you have consults, you have to see them and the lazy can pass on only so much. In clinic, you can cut corners but that only reflects how lousy a doctor you are.

Of the 67-75% of residents that I know who are not excessively lazy (only slightly lazy or not lazy at all), there are some success stories. I consider myself in the non-lazy group and I will probably be quite successful in a number of ways. Another guy I know is in the non-lazy group and he is smart, honest, and successful.

As far as other specialties, I can name specialties that are less lazy but then there are some that are more lazy. Whenever some people choose a specialty because they say "it has easy hours", that's a tip off that there will be a significant segment of laziness among some residents. There are a few specialties that pay so poorly that you can't be lazy or you will become bankrupt. Those people aren't happy and are sometimes jealous of other specialties.
 
For what it's worth, Silly, I thought you were right on the money. I have had many of those same thoughts myself. And your historical info about ophtho is definitely correct.

Much of what you said rings true in many residencies, though, not just in ophtho. And I think turning a critical lens on ourselves is a healthy thing. I didn't feel like you were mean-spirited in your original post.

Food for thought: One of my attendings (in ophtho) said once that "Every field has their share of selfish money-makers. But ophthalmology seems to attract more than most." It was during a vent about "co-managing" phacomaniacs that give kickbacks to all the optoms in town in order to get all the referrals.
 
i've done a rotation in a ophthalmology clinic and i have to tell you i saw the residents bust their butts all day and the go study at night and weekends.
they might not put in as many hours in the hospital as others but there is so much more reading that is recquired, prob more than any other fields.

and for attendings, i've worked closely with occuloplastic surgeons that put in close to 10 hour days w/o blinking.
not to mention all those docs that take call for eye trauma.
 
After reconsidering the initial post afresh, I still think the tone reeks with self-righteousness.
 
smiegal said:
After reconsidering the initial post afresh, I still think the tone reeks with self-righteousness.

Lots of ophthalmologists are self-righteous. We think we are better than other specialties. We think we have to work hard even though work hours don't support the feeling. We think we are super-surgeons even though surgical skill is very focused. Quite a few ophthalmologists don't do non-microscopic surgery well.
 
OphthalmicPilot said:
Lots of ophthalmologists are self-righteous. We think we are better than other specialties. We think we have to work hard even though work hours don't support the feeling. We think we are super-surgeons even though surgical skill is very focused. Quite a few ophthalmologists don't do non-microscopic surgery well.

Anyone who thinks ophthalmologists are "better" than other specialists is an idiot. I have no idea where you trained, but maybe they were just jerks? Everyone I know in my department is happy with their choice and proud of their specialty but no one thinks we are the best specialty, best surgeons, blah blah blah. Yes, many ophthalmologists are not great at non-microscopic surgery but that's because they don't want to do it. Not many CT surgeons can take out a cataract. It's just different skills.
 
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