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hautecouture

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I'm sorry if this appears as a dumbfounded question, but I'm really wondering what the answer is. Are optometrists reffered to as a Doctor or are they simply Mr./Ms.?

Thanks in advance!
 

KHE

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I'm sorry if this appears as a dumbfounded question, but I'm really wondering what the answer is. Are optometrists reffered to as a Doctor or are they simply Mr./Ms.?

Thanks in advance!

Oh boy...

There is no way that someone could classify themselves as "pre-optometry" and NOT know the answer to that question. That leaves only two possibilities:

1) You're a troll trying to start yet another in a loooong list of controversial threads on here.

2) You really are that dumb.

Either way, I recommend that this thread be closed down before the usual suspects invade and turn it into the quagmire we all expect it to become.
 

hautecouture

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Oh boy...

There is no way that someone could classify themselves as "pre-optometry" and NOT know the answer to that question. That leaves only two possibilities:

1) You're a troll trying to start yet another in a loooong list of controversial threads on here.

2) You really are that dumb.

Either way, I recommend that this thread be closed down before the usual suspects invade and turn it into the quagmire we all expect it to become.

Hey there KHE!

I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone! I'm a senior in high school, first of all. I'm somewhat new to the forums and I'm looking into optometry. I genuinely wanted to know if they were considered doctors or not....


I just would like to know some information. I've heard mixed feelings about this, and I wanted to know the truth. I thought what better way than the SDN forums....Also, I hope this doesn't turn into a "quagmire". =/ I apologize again, I honestly did not mean to offend anyone whatsoever!
 
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Dr.Millisevert

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Hey there KHE!

I'm sorry, I did not mean to offend anyone! I'm a senior in high school, first of all. I'm somewhat new to the forums and I'm looking into optometry. I genuinely wanted to know if they were considered doctors or not....


I just would like to know some information. I've heard mixed feelings about this, and I wanted to know the truth. I thought what better way than the SDN forums....Also, I hope this doesn't turn into a "quagmire". =/ I apologize again, I honestly did not mean to offend anyone whatsoever!

The word "doctor" just means "to teach". It is a title that can be used for anyone with a Doctoral degree (PhD) or those with "professional degrees in health" (subject to regional jurisdictions).

Example: Vet's can also use the title of "Dr.".
Dr. David Oates, DVM
Dr. Heath Stump, BVMS

The second guy graduated from Vet school in Australia where they grant a "bachelors of Vet Med/surgery". However, this degree is equivalent to the US DVM degree and it is the state board of Vet medicine that allows the use of the title of "Dr." for vets and not the type of professional degree you have. This is equally true for all professions (that it is the regional board not your degree that allows the use of this title).

Bottomline
Yes: In most if not all areas of the United States optometrists are allowed to use the title of "Dr.".


Does that answer your question?
 

oceanblue392

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They are Doctors. Have you ever visited an optometrist before? How do you address them? Optometrists are considered physicians here in the USA.
 

ABRPh427

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They are Doctors. Have you ever visited an optometrist before? How do you address them? Optometrists are considered physicians here in the USA.


opthalmologists are physicians ( MD's) Optometrists are not (OD's) but again...they are allowed to be addressed as Dr. (Fill in the blank)
 

oceanblue392

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opthalmologists are physicians ( MD's) Optometrists are not (OD's) but again...they are allowed to be addressed as Dr. (Fill in the blank)

Optometrist, according to section 1861(r)(4) of the SSA,and CMS Sec. 410.20, are designated a physician with all of the privileges and honors of that professional designation.

heres the link:http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title18/1861.htm
(r) The term "physician", when used in connection with the performance of any function or action, means...(4) a doctor of optometry, but only for purposes of subsection (p)(1) with respect to the provision of items or services described in subsection (s) which he is legally authorized to perform as a doctor of optometry by the State in which he performs them
---(P)(1) refers to the term "outpatient physical therapy services"

and CMS: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedocket.access.gpo.gov%2Fcfr_2006%2Foctqtr%2Fpdf%2F42cfr410.20.pdf&ei=GzoNSdrSCZK2sAPRnsCDDw&usg=AFQjCNGaIgVQp-9gqf5q_VepLcsFkSn3KA&sig2=7Q3_fr27G_JfJyh7UiaQBQ

410.20 Physicians' services.

(b) By whom services must be furnished. Medicare Part B pays for the services specified in paragraph (a) of this section if they are furnished by one of the following professionals who is legally authorized to practice by the State in which he or she performs the functions or actions, and who is acting within the scope of his or her license...(4) A doctor of optometry.
 

Dr.Millisevert

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Optometrist, according to section 1861(r)(4) of the SSA,and CMS Sec. 410.20, are designated a physician with all of the privileges and honors of that professional designation.

heres the link:http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title18/1861.htm
(r) The term “physician”, when used in connection with the performance of any function or action, means...(4) a doctor of optometry, but only for purposes of subsection (p)(1) with respect to the provision of items or services described in subsection (s) which he is legally authorized to perform as a doctor of optometry by the State in which he performs them
---(P)(1) refers to the term “outpatient physical therapy services”

and CMS: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedocket.access.gpo.gov%2Fcfr_2006%2Foctqtr%2Fpdf%2F42cfr410.20.pdf&ei=GzoNSdrSCZK2sAPRnsCDDw&usg=AFQjCNGaIgVQp-9gqf5q_VepLcsFkSn3KA&sig2=7Q3_fr27G_JfJyh7UiaQBQ

410.20 Physicians’ services.

(b) By whom services must be furnished. Medicare Part B pays for the services specified in paragraph (a) of this section if they are furnished by one of the following professionals who is legally authorized to practice by the State in which he or she performs the functions or actions, and who is acting within the scope of his or her license...(4) A doctor of optometry.


Optometrists (as well as dentists, podiatrists, and naturopaths) have been able to in certain regional areas of the United States lobby their local goverments to "list" them as "physicians" so that they can get reimbursed equal to an MD/DO for certain procedures, etc by insurance companies and by medicare.

However... Optometrists are not considered to be a physician by defintion (technically).
 

KHE

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Optometrists (as well as dentists, podiatrists, and naturopaths) have been able to in certain regional areas of the United States lobby their local goverments to "list" them as "physicians" so that they can get reimbursed equal to an MD/DO for certain procedures, etc by insurance companies and by medicare.

However... Optometrists are not considered to be a physician by defintion (technically).

*sigh*

Optometrists are considered "physicians" by the CMS and by the SSA. CMS reimburses ODs and ophthalmologists the same for ALL procedures in all parts of the country. Private HMOs may vary in that regard but for all federal programs the reimbursement is the same.
 

oceanblue392

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Optometrists (as well as dentists, podiatrists, and naturopaths) have been able to in certain regional areas of the United States lobby their local goverments to "list" them as "physicians" so that they can get reimbursed equal to an MD/DO for certain procedures, etc by insurance companies and by medicare.

However... Optometrists are not considered to be a physician by defintion (technically).

The links i posted above are links to NATIONAL government organizations, and as such the NATIONAL government recognizes optometrists are physicians. It's ignorant for you Millisevert, even after I posted the links to the specific articles of definition from both the CMS and SSA, for you say that optometrists are not physicians.
 

Dr.Millisevert

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It's ignorant for you Millisevert, even after I posted the links to the specific articles of definition from both the CMS and SSA, for you say that optometrists are not physicians.

I suppose... if we are referring to the American definition of the term "physician" which can be used for many different types of "health care professionals".
 
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texas110477

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I suppose... if we are referring to the American definition of the term "physician" which can be used for many different types of "health care professionals".

OD are called Dr, but are not physicans, its like a physcologist vs phyciastrist. Physcologist with a PHD are called DR, but they are NOT a MD and they CANNOT prescribe. Vs a Phyciastrist are Medical Doctors <physicians> and prescribe meds.
 
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Dr.Millisevert

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OD are called Dr, but are not physicans, its like a physcologist vs phyciastrist. Physcologist with a PHD are called DR, but they are NOT a MD and they CANNOT prescribe. Vs a Phyciastrist are Medical Doctors <physicians> and prescribe meds.

Exactly. I agree with this statement. :thumbup:

Wikipedia:Physician
Wikipedia:Doctor
 

texas110477

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Stupid comment.

When was the last time a general family practitioner did surgery? Performing surgery is not the definition of a physician.

Stupid thread.

the difference is a general family practioner can go back and do a one year surgery residency and CAN do surgery. Or can do a opthomology residency. The point is that they are not limited. If they wanted to go back its not like they have to go through med school again, they just have to get into a residency program. If they are bored with their profession they can always specialize in something else.
 

blysssful

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the difference is a general family practioner can go back and do a one year surgery residency and CAN do surgery. Or can do a opthomology residency. The point is that they are not limited. If they wanted to go back its not like they have to go through med school again, they just have to get into a residency program. If they are bored with their profession they can always specialize in something else.

So... are you saying that the MD wouldn't be considered a physician until they're in a specialty that allows them to perform surgery? I'm sorry, but that's almost as ******ed as the original question.
 

blysssful

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Exactly. I agree with this statement. :thumbup:

Wikipedia:Physician
Wikipedia:Doctor

A. Seriously, since when has a wikipedia source ever been acceptable for reputable information?
B. YOUR link itself states for the definition of "Physician": "For other uses, see Doctor."
C. From your link: "A physician, medical practitioner and medical doctor who practices medicine, and is concerned with maintaining or restoring human health through the study, diagnosis and treatment of disease and injury. This is accomplished through a detailed knowledge of anatomy, physiology, diseases and treatment — the science of medicine and its applied practice." Please tell me how this definition differs from the capabilities of an optometrist.
D. Even if you are 110% confident that you're right about optometrists not being "true physicians", what do you care what they call themselves? Does it really affect you personally? If it does, you might want to consider getting a hobby.
 

texas110477

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So... are you saying that the MD wouldn't be considered a physician until they're in a specialty that allows them to perform surgery? I'm sorry, but that's almost as ******ed as the original question.

well you think of a physician that someone that can atleast prescribe, some also specialize in surgery. You do not consider a OD doing either.
 
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texas110477

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How do you figure?

Basically anything from the iris on back, you are not permitted to treat (except glaucoma in some states). If you cannot treat certain condition, and feel your liminted based on the state you live in, how can u be called physicians. People go to physicians to get their conditions treated.
 

oceanblue392

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An OD is a Dr like a PHD not a MD (physician).

that analogy does not make any sense.

optometrists can prescribe medicine. optometrists are recognized as physicians by the united states government. I dont see how there is still discussion about this. I've already linked and copied and pasted the excerpts.
 
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blysssful

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Basically anything from the iris on back, you are not permitted to treat (except glaucoma in some states). If you cannot treat certain condition, and feel your liminted based on the state you live in, how can u be called physicians. People go to physicians to get their conditions treated.

First off, learn some grammar. Second, there are limitations within all areas of health care. For example, general practitioners (MD/DO), who are by all means physicians, often need to refer out patients with specialty issues. That does not make them any less of a competent doctor. There is a reason why there are different specialties within the field. A gynecologist wouldn't perform LASIK without expecting major malpractice suits... I'm pretty sure that would also be considered a limitation.
 

hautecouture

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Thank you to everyone! My question has been answered! Optometrists are doctors! I respect that and love that fact! I believe they are more than qualified and deserve being addressed by Doctor.

Thanks again to everyone, let's all be friends! =)
 
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dmaxGh

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one can only make his best educated guess as to ur intentions. of course as professionals we will address ur question irrespective.
depending on ur level of education, u can be called a doctor. for instance, in Ghana, optometry is a 7yr programm (housemanship inclusive), leading to the award of a doctorate degree. as i read and heard, it is not so in some other countries, uk inclusive. for such countries, the programm is a bachelors degree program, with just a Bsc award. now, unless there is something beneath the question, i believe this and other responses are enough to deliver u from ur "confusion".
 

Dr.Millisevert

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depending on ur level of education, u can be called a doctor. for instance, in Ghana, optometry is a 7yr programm (housemanship inclusive), leading to the award of a doctorate degree. as i read and heard, it is not so in some other countries, uk inclusive. for such countries, the programm is a bachelors degree program,

Incorrect. Again, being called "doctor" is a privledge given to you by your regional license not by the degree you hold.

Again, please refer to the example I gave of Australian Vets. They graduate with a Bachelors of Vet Surgery/Medicine, also... Australian Dentists graduate with a Bachelor of Dental Surgery, and Australian Doctors graduate with a Bachelor of Medicine/Surgery... and every single one of them are allowed to be called "Doctor" both in Australia as well as in the United States because this is a privilege granted to them by their state license and professional regulation boards.

Some Nurses in the US are now getting degrees with the word "doctor" in them.. but that doesn't mean they can go around the hospital introducing themselves to patients as their "doctor". Make sense?
 

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It never ceases to amaze me how such (apparently) intelligent people constantly get themselves involved in this stupid argument ALL THE DAMN TIME ON THIS FORUM.
 

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I just thought the sources used to support the arguments were kind of funny:

Exactly. I agree with this statement. :thumbup:

Wikipedia:Physician
Wikipedia:Doctor

Vs.

Optometrist, according to section 1861(r)(4) of the SSA,and CMS Sec. 410.20, are designated a physician with all of the privileges and honors of that professional designation.

heres the link:http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title18/1861.htm
(r) The term “physician”, when used in connection with the performance of any function or action, means...(4) a doctor of optometry, but only for purposes of subsection (p)(1) with respect to the provision of items or services described in subsection (s) which he is legally authorized to perform as a doctor of optometry by the State in which he performs them
---(P)(1) refers to the term “outpatient physical therapy services”

and CMS: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedocket.access.gpo.gov%2Fcfr_2006%2Foctqtr%2Fpdf%2F42cfr410.20.pdf&ei=GzoNSdrSCZK2sAPRnsCDDw&usg=AFQjCNGaIgVQp-9gqf5q_VepLcsFkSn3KA&sig2=7Q3_fr27G_JfJyh7UiaQBQ

410.20 Physicians’ services.

(b) By whom services must be furnished. Medicare Part B pays for the services specified in paragraph (a) of this section if they are furnished by one of the following professionals who is legally authorized to practice by the State in which he or she performs the functions or actions, and who is acting within the scope of his or her license...(4) A doctor of optometry.

hmmmm....Wikipedia or CMS/SSA
 

4Eyes

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As far as I know, the CMS definitions are just so we can get reimbursed properly as a medical doctor would for performing the same service. I think it's misleading to refer to ourselves as physicians. I agree that that implies MD or DO. "Doctor" is just fine.
 
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ABRPh427

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Incorrect. Again, being called "doctor" is a privledge given to you by your regional license not by the degree you hold.

Again, please refer to the example I gave of Australian Vets. They graduate with a Bachelors of Vet Surgery/Medicine, also... Australian Dentists graduate with a Bachelor of Dental Surgery, and Australian Doctors graduate with a Bachelor of Medicine/Surgery... and every single one of them are allowed to be called "Doctor" both in Australia as well as in the United States because this is a privilege granted to them by their state license and professional regulation boards.

Some Nurses in the US are now getting degrees with the word "doctor" in them.. but that doesn't mean they can go around the hospital introducing themselves to patients as their "doctor". Make sense?


Completely INCORRECT if a Doctoral degree is conferred to an individual whatever the degree is (PhD, MD/DO,DVM,PharmD,DPT,DNP, Ed.D, etc.) the individual is recognized as a doctor the latin word Doctor just means to teach or to be a teacher nothing more, let's not make a big deal about that now
 

opto2be

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Completely INCORRECT if a Doctoral degree is conferred to an individual whatever the degree is (PhD, MD/DO,DVM,PharmD,DPT,DNP, Ed.D, etc.) the individual is recognized as a doctor the latin word Doctor just means to teach or to be a teacher nothing more, let's not make a big deal about that now

Yes, that's true. However, the general public uses Dr. in a more limited sense. For example, pharmacists and lawyers generally are not referred to as Drs. despite possessing doctoral degrees.
 

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Optometrists are Doctors; however, they are NOT physicians. Even podiatrists are NOT physicians. Only MD/DO are physicians.
 

S A M

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Chiropractors are doctors :eyebrow:


...they just aren't real doctors.
 

EyEnStein 07

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Yes, that's true. However, the general public uses Dr. in a more limited sense. For example, pharmacists and lawyers generally are not referred to as Drs. despite possessing doctoral degrees.

i agree with this...idk why Lawyers are not called doctors by the general public..but most people when they talk about doctors are talking about physicians...Pharmacists may make more sense but maybe just in my case. Every time i go to a pharmacy, most of the time i dont see the pharmacist. I know who he is because my father speaks to him, but i never see him really talking to anyone besides the other workers there. Maybe because he doesnt really have interaction? But idk, maybe in a different type of setting Pharmacists do have interactions.

Chiropractors are doctors :eyebrow:

...they just aren't real doctors.

What is a real doctor then? The definition varies by person.
 

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that analogy does not make any sense.

optometrists can prescribe medicine. optometrists are recognized as physicians by the united states government. I dont see how there is still discussion about this. I've already linked and copied and pasted the excerpts.

Optometrists are NOT physicians although often being addressed as Dr. How many medicine can optometrists prescribe? Can optometrists consider them being equal as an ophthalmologist or do eye surgeries without supervision? Just because you are allow to bill certain to get similar reimbursement as ophthalmologist, doesn't make you automatically a physician. PA and NP can prescribe certain medicines as well. But do you consider them as physicians?? Optometrists to me is more or less like a mid level provider.
 

epcku924

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First off, learn some grammar. Second, there are limitations within all areas of health care. For example, general practitioners (MD/DO), who are by all means physicians, often need to refer out patients with specialty issues. That does not make them any less of a competent doctor. There is a reason why there are different specialties within the field. A gynecologist wouldn't perform LASIK without expecting major malpractice suits... I'm pretty sure that would also be considered a limitation.

Many flaws in your analogy as if physicians ONLY refer out patients if pathology is outside of their practice scope. However, you don't see ophthalmologists refer patients who has eye issues. ;)
 

KHE

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Optometrists are NOT physicians although often being addressed as Dr. How many medicine can optometrists prescribe? Can optometrists consider them being equal as an ophthalmologist or do eye surgeries without supervision? Just because you are allow to bill certain to get similar reimbursement as ophthalmologist, doesn't make you automatically a physician. PA and NP can prescribe certain medicines as well. But do you consider them as physicians?? Optometrists to me is more or less like a mid level provider.

Thank you.

Thank you for reviving an 18 month old thread and adding absolutely nothing to it.
 

Shnurek

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Optometrists are NOT physicians although often being addressed as Dr. How many medicine can optometrists prescribe? Can optometrists consider them being equal as an ophthalmologist or do eye surgeries without supervision? Just because you are allow to bill certain to get similar reimbursement as ophthalmologist, doesn't make you automatically a physician. PA and NP can prescribe certain medicines as well. But do you consider them as physicians?? Optometrists to me is more or less like a mid level provider.

I'm going to assume you are an FMG (foreign medical graduate) because of your horrendous grammar. Therefore you must be ignorant of the American Medical system. Optometrists are unique in America in that they are autonomous eye care doctors. They can own their own practice, prescribe and administer medications (oral, injections, topical etc.), perform surgical procedures and get reimbursed directly by insurance companies without any supervision of an MD/DO.
 
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Thank you.

Thank you for reviving an 18 month old thread and adding absolutely nothing to it.

:laugh:

LOL...

Here we go again, right? :p

I wonder if the original poster decided to pursue Optometry for sure then? Should be in college by now...
 
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Hello friends, I am writing an essay on the use of the title "doctor". I understand optometrists hold doctoral degrees and are legally entitled to put Dr. in front of their names. Here in Canada; however, there are limitations on being able to refer oneself as "a doctor" or "a physician". Optometrists are able to introduce themselves as "a doctor of optometry" but not "a doctor" by itself. There seems to be some confusion south of the border. Some sources suggest the rules are the same in the States, but other sources, such as this thread, seem to suggest otherwise. I would be extremely grateful if an American optometrist friend can clear it up for me. Are you able to use the title "doctor" without adding the title "optometry" or "optometrist" in addition. Also, are you allowed to call yourself "a physician". Thank you.
 

Shnurek

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Depends on the state. In some states you can call yourself an optometric physician while in others only a doctor of optometry or optometrist.
 

Erick Torres

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Optometrists are not Doctors. They can check for cornial abrasions, pappelidema, increased intraoccular pressure/glaucoma (but cannot diagnose the underlying causes and have an insurance company respect their diagnosis), and set a person up with glasses or contacts to improve their vision. They are talented professionals that do a lot for the community, but they are not physicians and they are definitely not Doctors (no matter how many times they may introduce themselves to their clients in that way). I apologize for the honesty in this posting, but I'm not sure why Optometry is even a subject on the Student-Doctor network.
 
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