Are people getting worse in regards to mental health?

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annoyedpsychiatrist

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Im seeing more and more polypharm, substance use, benzos, inappropriate sleep meds, etc. Im also even seeing more late onset psychosis/bipolar and more rare disorders in general. Granted im a younger attending compared to a lot of people on here. What do you guys think?

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If you were practicing in the late 70s or early 80s you would have seen all the insane polypharm you're seeing now but with more dangerous drugs. I remember hearing stories about doctors in the late 80s and 90s who would make sure to have patients taking EVERY SSRI that was on the market at the time and as soon as a new one was released they would add that in to the regimen. 3 or 4 SSRIs at above max dose alongside a TCA. Things like that.

Back in the real hayday of benzodiazepines you would be seeing people taking much, much higher doses because they were so much safer than the barbiturates, which if you had been practicing 10 years prior would have been what was being mixed so egregiously.

You're probably just seeing more than you were used to in the settings you worked in before whatever happened that caused the patients you're seeing to be different.
 
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I think possibly because im seeing more geri patients now, and they have had more years to build up more and more inappropriate meds to their list as opposed to younger patients. Also there were some significant events that impacted the area and a lot of people in it
 
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I think possibly because im seeing more geri patients now, and they have had more years to build up more and more inappropriate meds to their list as opposed to younger patients. Also there were some significant events that impacted the area and a lot of people in it
In general, the stats measuring mental health markers are up, but I would think what you are seeing is probably more specific to your population.
 
I'm seeing less opioids.
More cannabis.
More transgender and more types of sexual preference descriptions.

More awareness of memory, focus, concentration issues that people come in suspecting is ADHD.... But I don't think it is more of anything.

All the rest of my more/less observations are likely just my population, but I think those above might rise to statistical significant.
 
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I'm seeing less opioids.
More cannabis.
More transgender and more types of sexual preference descriptions.

More awareness of memory, focus, concentration issues that people come in suspecting is ADHD.... But I don't think it is more of anything.

All the rest of my more/less observations are likely just my population, but I think those above might rise to statistical significant.
definitely more cannabis. Ive yet to have a young patient not using cannabis in months.
 
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“What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.”

 
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Yes. The bare metric of increased depression during COVID was about 300%.

All the other stuff is complicated but agree with what was mentioned above by Sushirolls.
 
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I'm seeing more adults come in with suspected autism due to tiktoks influence
omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently
 
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omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently
This is my life. So frustrating.
 
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omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently

There are gender differences in symptom presentation in ASD, so this wasn't completely wrong.
 
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ADHD: I believe it is on the rise and significantly despite that the genepool hasn't changed. ADHD can be subject dependent. If you like what you do-increased dopamine. If you're exercising and being more physically active-increased dopamine. Increased dopamine means less ADHD.

Kids and more screentime-more ADHD

Kids these days have more screentime, work is more data driven then before and it will become more and more data driven as technology advances, and people are sitting on their butts all day long where as before most jobs required people be more physically active.

Of course ADHD is on the rise.

Don't believe me on the subject dependent thing? Get 100 heterosexual men with ADHD. Their job is to be to a bikini beauty model judge. You won't see too many ADHD symptoms in that group of judges as they stare at these physically attractive young women. Tell these same people to do physics and those same men will be suffering big time ADHD sx.
 
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omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently
Yes they got all that from TikTok. Most illness criteria is by white males.
 
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I'm seeing more adults come in with suspected autism due to tiktoks influence

omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently

Yep, had experience with this myself (as a non health care professional) and it is so darn annoying. It's like some people are so attached to their tik tok diagnosis of autism, that it becomes very important to them that they try and slap the same diagnosis on other people as well.

Paraphrased conversation that took place when I was discussing being a formerly gifted child with apparent asynchronous development, with a group of like minded folk.

Random TitTok Autistic - Sounds like you're autistic, you should get tested for that. Here's some links to tik tok reels that I think you'll really relate to.

Me - Look thanks for the info, but I've actually been assessed twice for autism spectrum disorder, once as a child and again as an adult, and I'm not autistic.

Random TitTok Autistic - But you really should get tested by someone who knows what their doing to make sure.

Me - Again, I've been assessed twice, by a specialist paediatrician and by a psychiatrist. Am I supposed to just have endless assessments until I find someone to give me a label that you agree with?

Random TitTok Autistic - Diagnostic criteria has changed over the years, and a lot of paediatricians and psychiatrists are stuck on old ideas of what autism is, so unless you're presenting as a really severe case you can go undiagnosed (cue life story of tik tok reels and realisation of misdiagnosis and blah blah Doctors don't know everything, you need to advocate for yourself, etc etc.)

Me - (straining to maintain patience at this point) Look you seem really attached to your diagnosis, I wish you well with that, but I'm not autistic and I'm not going to pretend otherwise or go shopping around for a diagnosis I don't have.

At that point I back spaced out of the conversation entirely. Nothing like a conversation about one thing getting highjacked by a devotee of diagnosis by tik tok, who's really invested in talking about something else entirely, to frustrate the living daylights out of you. I can only imagine the level of annoyance you guys feel when confronted with a patient who insists that their relating to tik tok reels trumps your diagnostic skills as a medical professional. :rolleyes:
 
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definitely more cannabis. Ive yet to have a young patient not using cannabis in months.
It's interesting, I work physically in a small to medium size town, politcally conservative area and cannabis use now seems about the same as 10-20 years ago. Maybe slightly more but not much. I do remote consulting to a larger metro, politcally extrememly liberal, and the MDs and social workers I interface with see tons of patients using cannabis. I specifically notice my recommendations to pursue sobriety from cannabis in this area are met with a sort of shock and surprise from treatment providers, like it's just the new normal and why would I worry about patients and cannabis use.
 
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omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently
Frequent occurrence here, as well. As with pretty much any diagnosis, there are ASD forums where these patients get all of their "facts" (echo chamber of people without ASD telling each other they all have ASD.)
There are gender differences in symptom presentation in ASD, so this wasn't completely wrong.
If you happen to have any solid references in mind, I'd greatly appreciate a link/title/etc.
 
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Frequent occurrence here, as well. As with pretty much any diagnosis, there are ASD forums where these patients get all of their "facts" (echo chamber of people without ASD telling each other they all have ASD.)

If you happen to have any solid references in mind, I'd greatly appreciate a link/title/etc.

Been a while since I've done a deep dive here, but in general boys are more likely to show the issues with things like routines/stereotyped behaviors , have issues with textures in clothing and such, and have the avoidant eye contact in convos. Girls seem to be better at "camouflaging." IF you look up the latter, you'll see quite a bit in terms of the lit. If I get a chance, I'll look for a recent review/meta.
 
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Been a while since I've done a deep dive here, but in general boys are more likely to show the issues with things like routines/stereotyped behaviors , have issues with textures in clothing and such, and have the avoidant eye contact in convos. Girls seem to be better at "camouflaging." IF you look up the latter, you'll see quite a bit in terms of the lit. If I get a chance, I'll look for a recent review/meta.
Yes but we have standardized testing for this. I'm not going to diagnose based on feelings
 
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Been a while since I've done a deep dive here, but in general boys are more likely to show the issues with things like routines/stereotyped behaviors , have issues with textures in clothing and such, and have the avoidant eye contact in convos. Girls seem to be better at "camouflaging." IF you look up the latter, you'll see quite a bit in terms of the lit. If I get a chance, I'll look for a recent review/meta.
Is the physical sensitivity more prevalent in boys? Seems like it's also been very common in the girls I've seen who are on the spectrum and in a couple cases was actually the biggest thing that tipped us off to them likely being autistic.
 
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Is the physical sensitivity more prevalent in boys? Seems like it's also been very common in the girls I've seen who are on the spectrum and in a couple cases was actually the biggest thing that tipped us off to them likely being autistic.

At least when it comes to clothing, it seems so. But, we're talking group differences that still have a good amount of overlap here.
 
Been on a date before with this girl who was insisting to me that she was on the spectrum “but it just doesn’t present like it does in males” and that’s why it’s not obvious. Of course she found a therapist to agree. The tiktok effect (and other precursors) are a big part of these social contagion diseases and they all annoy me to no end. Random list in particular order of driving me insane: Tourette’s/tics, asd, adhd, sexuality/orientation/identification issues. The field of psychiatry and MH in general is always subject to dealing with societal trends and attempting to medicalize them in order to respond to society’s demands to “do something” about x issue. X can be depression, SUD, SI, “loneliness epidemic”, and others. Which is a good intention but by pretending like psychiatry has an answer for a myriad of social problems makes this worse. On the plus side: therapists and psychiatrists have more money than ever before!
 
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omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently

For the lolz, you could explore what she means by "male" or "female". Bonus points if you explore her presumptions of what gender you identify as, if any. Extra bonus points if you explore whether her "symptoms" would change if she identified as male.


There are gender differences in symptom presentation in ASD, so this wasn't completely wrong.

There are no gender differences in symptom presentation of stupidity.


Don't believe me on the subject dependent thing? Get 100 heterosexual men with ADHD. Their job is to be to a bikini beauty model judge. You won't see too many ADHD symptoms in that group of judges as they stare at these physically attractive young women.

But the specificity will be way off, as bikini contests tend to induce ADHD-like symptoms among hetero males, among other things.
 
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ADHD: I believe it is on the rise and significantly despite that the genepool hasn't changed. ADHD can be subject dependent. If you like what you do-increased dopamine. If you're exercising and being more physically active-increased dopamine. Increased dopamine means less ADHD.

Kids and more screentime-more ADHD

Kids these days have more screentime, work is more data driven then before and it will become more and more data driven as technology advances, and people are sitting on their butts all day long where as before most jobs required people be more physically active.

Of course ADHD is on the rise.

Don't believe me on the subject dependent thing? Get 100 heterosexual men with ADHD. Their job is to be to a bikini beauty model judge. You won't see too many ADHD symptoms in that group of judges as they stare at these physically attractive young women. Tell these same people to do physics and those same men will be suffering big time ADHD sx.
Yes but why does the treatment for this have to be meds?
 
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At least when it comes to clothing, it seems so. But, we're talking group differences that still have a good amount of overlap here.
I have always found this argument circular as the initial issue was a discrepancy in prevalence between genders which lead to an argument that females were being missed so they expanded the case definition of the disease itself and found that could address the prevalence issue somewhat. But then you have essentially created a new disease category that was not derived from an understanding of the pathophysiology or any type of effort to develop a consistent disease model that captures the clinical reality, but rather one that is driven by other unrelated and fairly ridiculous aims. The increase in autism overall is also clearly partly driven by a loosening of the case definition and it is unfortunate that at a time when we have an ever increasing neuroscientific understanding of autism we are using neither objective measures of brain function nor even high quality psychological research to drive the science and practice of diagnosis, but rather a consumer driven approach by allowing a group of people who likely don't have autism but would like to have autism to decide what it should be and who it should include. There is no hope except to make a new category and take better care of it.
 
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I have always found this argument circular as the initial issue was a discrepancy in prevalence between genders which lead to an argument that females were being missed so they expanded the case definition of the disease itself and found that could address the prevalence issue somewhat. But then you have essentially created a new disease category that was not derived from an understanding of the pathophysiology or any type of effort to develop a consistent disease model that captures the clinical reality, but rather one that is driven by other unrelated and fairly ridiculous aims. The increase in autism overall is also clearly partly driven by a loosening of the case definition and it is unfortunate that at a time when we have an ever increasing neuroscientific understanding of autism we are using neither objective measures of brain function nor even high quality psychological research to drive the science and practice of diagnosis, but rather a consumer driven approach by allowing a group of people who likely don't have autism but would like to have autism to decide what it should be and who it should include. There is no hope except to make a new category and take better care of it.

Isn’t that just ceding the ground? Sort of Thomas Szazian theory of why dsm can expand seemingly rapidly without stable underpinnings/rationale/justification? Just a question. If I understand correctly then we have to constantly create newer dx that eventually get loosely defined or just lose their parameters altogether.
 
Isn’t that just ceding the ground? Sort of Thomas Szazian theory of why dsm can expand seemingly rapidly without stable underpinnings/rationale/justification? Just a question. If I understand correctly then we have to constantly create newer dx that eventually get loosely defined or just lose their parameters altogether.
I mean I definitely agree, but there is very little energy to pushback against stakeholder communities. I guess I don't think we should constantly make new categories but retain one category that denotes a construct within disability theory that has a broad definition and and few medical implications and allow people to identify with it at will (we can call that 'neurodiverse') and then have a much stricter biomedical diagnosis and if we had taken this approach sooner we could have called it autism but that ship has sailed. If we called multifactorial congenital disorder of social learning maybe nobody on TikTok will notice.
 
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I mean I definitely agree, but there is very little energy to pushback against stakeholder communities. I guess I don't think we should constantly make new categories but retain one category that denotes a construct within disability theory that has a broad definition and and few medical implications and allow people to identify with it at will (we can call that 'neurodiverse') and then have a much stricter biomedical diagnosis and if we had taken this approach sooner we could have called it autism but that ship has sailed. If we called multifactorial congenital disorder of social learning maybe nobody on TikTok will notice.

I think a better answer is us being honest that psychiatry specifically but even medicine in general is very susceptible to socialization pressures. And while I like the idea of “multi factorial congenital disorder of social learning” I’m afraid that adhd, fibromyalgia, crps, etc. fads all preceded tiktok if I’m not mistaken. I’d venture that your MFCDSL will be also infringed on fairly quickly even though it’s a mouthful!
 
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Yes but why does the treatment for this have to be meds?

Doesn't have to be but how many parents and kids will voluntarily get rid of the automated baby sitter otherwise known as screen-time, and replace it with a healthy diet, exercise, daily mental exercise.....? Very few.

On a related tangent-about 50% of Americans have a vitamin D deficiency. I don't see 1 physician checking Vitamin D levels other than myself.
 
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Mental health in the child population has certainly declined. In the adults I deal with, the rates of schizophrenia amd bipolar disorder seem to be increasing, almost all of which seem to use high-dose THC vapes
 
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Doesn't have to be but how many parents and kids will voluntarily get rid of the automated baby sitter otherwise known as screen-time, and replace it with a healthy diet, exercise, daily mental exercise.....? Very few.

On a related tangent-about 50% of Americans have a vitamin D deficiency. I don't see 1 physician checking Vitamin D levels other than myself.
Patients admitted to our inpatient unit get a level checked and I'd say 90%+ that I've seen are started on chole or ergo depending on level. Doesn't seem to stop them coming back to the ER, but at least their labs look better on recheck.
 
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omg yes. more than once that has happened. They are convinced having ASD is the cause of their woes. And when you tell them it isnt ASD it doesnt go well. Had one tell me that i didnt understand ASD because the criteria was created by white males and females present differently
I have this conversation around once every 2 weeks. Usually it is just somebody with poor social skills or a few eccentricities that wants to believe they've got some special reason for being a little off. The most frustrating thing is the kids that, when I talk with their parents, I find out all of their unusual behaviors are relatively new in onset, many of whom have managed to trick their therapists into believing they have the diagnosis based on superficial behaviors alone.
 
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Been on a date before with this girl who was insisting to me that she was on the spectrum “but it just doesn’t present like it does in males” and that’s why it’s not obvious. Of course she found a therapist to agree. The tiktok effect (and other precursors) are a big part of these social contagion diseases and they all annoy me to no end. Random list in particular order of driving me insane: Tourette’s/tics, asd, adhd, sexuality/orientation/identification issues. The field of psychiatry and MH in general is always subject to dealing with societal trends and attempting to medicalize them in order to respond to society’s demands to “do something” about x issue. X can be depression, SUD, SI, “loneliness epidemic”, and others. Which is a good intention but by pretending like psychiatry has an answer for a myriad of social problems makes this worse. On the plus side: therapists and psychiatrists have more money than ever before!
Much of mental illness is caused by a dissonance between society and the patient moreso than being inherent. If you took away the internet access of 90% of these patients for a couple of years they'd probably be fine. I wish I could just prescribe that they get their face out of a screen and touch grass sometimes. Like, at the rate I'm going this career is going to turn me into a Luddite
 
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Doesn't have to be but how many parents and kids will voluntarily get rid of the automated baby sitter otherwise known as screen-time, and replace it with a healthy diet, exercise, daily mental exercise.....? Very few.

On a related tangent-about 50% of Americans have a vitamin D deficiency. I don't see 1 physician checking Vitamin D levels other than myself.
Insurance seldom covers it. Do you want to have that long discussion with patients or just blindly encourage some Vit D supplementation?
 
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Much of mental illness is caused by a dissonance between society and the patient moreso than being inherent. If you took away the internet access of 90% of these patients for a couple of years they'd probably be fine. I wish I could just prescribe that they get their face out of a screen and touch grass sometimes. Like, at the rate I'm going this career is going to turn me into a Luddite
There's still farm land out there that Bill Gates hasn't bought yet. Take a page out of my playbook.
Tractor therapy. Go classic, get a Farmall, or go new. Either will make you smile once throttling up.

Recently I had one of those head scratching thoughts. The over dependence people have on their pets and morphing them into surrogate children, was always a bit perplexing. I know think its the modern manifestation from our agricultural roots. It was there all along. People would be attached to their prize milk cow, horse, pig, whatever. Now they have an ESA with a letter to stick it to their landlord...
 
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Pretty much why the Vitamin D thing occurred in my mind with this treatment other than ADHD meds issue. Society needs a paradigm shift. IMHO the rise in ADHD is a societal issue due to advancing technology, cultural changes, lack of exercise, poor diet, and break up of the family structure. A kid pressing a touch-screen 5 hours a day is going to predispose that kid to ADHD. Aside that it's obvious data is showing this in studies.

Encouraging Vitamin D supplementation-the problem there is that the FDA recommends 400 IU a day, a standard written decades ago and off. Heftier dosages are usually needed but the only real way to tell if the patient is getting enough is a blood test.
 
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Pretty much why the Vitamin D thing occurred in my mind with this treatment other than ADHD meds issue. Society needs a paradigm shift. IMHO the rise in ADHD is a societal issue due to advancing technology, cultural changes, lack of exercise, poor diet, and break up of the family structure. A kid pressing a touch-screen 5 hours a day is going to predispose that kid to ADHD. Aside that it's obvious data is showing this in studies.

Encouraging Vitamin D supplementation-the problem there is that the FDA recommends 400 IU a day, a standard written decades ago and off. Heftier dosages are usually needed but the only real way to tell if the patient is getting enough is a blood test.
I frequently have to remind my patients that we probably learn more every time we get a new electronic device than a primitive human learned in their entire adult life due to the static nature of society and technology in primitive times. The information and sensory overload just isn't something our brains were evolved to handle, in my opinion. Most tolerate it, but by accident, not design. Those that struggle with the pace, structure, loneliness, and demands of the modern world would probably do just fine, and possibly even thrive, in an early agrarian society.
 
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Doesn't seem to stop them coming back to the ER, but at least their labs look better on recheck.

Even when vitamin D is low, evidence isn’t really strong that supplementing back into “optimal” range confers much of a benefit, if at all.
 
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Even when vitamin D is low, evidence isn’t really strong that supplementing back into “optimal” range confers much of a benefit, if at all.
With depression yes. With COVID, MS, and several other disorders there's data showing if you have good levels it could prevent the problem in the first place although once you got it, correcting it may only somewhat improve outcomes. E.g. MS. That's such a terrible disease to begin with, and correcting Vitamin D after the patient has it might not do much, but given how bad MS is and that the data is nice with it preventing it, and that half the US population has a deficiency, Vitamin D IMHO should be part of the annual physical exam. Again, not just MS but other potentially lethal health problems such as COVID.
 
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Much of mental illness is caused by a dissonance between society and the patient moreso than being inherent. If you took away the internet access of 90% of these patients for a couple of years they'd probably be fine. I wish I could just prescribe that they get their face out of a screen and touch grass sometimes. Like, at the rate I'm going this career is going to turn me into a Luddite

As a technophile I still got a kick out of this and agree to an extent. Tx: 1 hour daily of touching grass preferably with the sun.
 
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Even when vitamin D is low, evidence isn’t really strong that supplementing back into “optimal” range confers much of a benefit, if at all.
Eh, I've seen mixed results. Most of the time it's probably incidental, but I have had a small number of patients who had pretty remarkable improvements with supplementation that I think was probably beyond what I'd expect from starting 20mg of prozac or 15mg of remeron. From what I recall though, all of them had true deficiency (levels in the single digits). Interestingly, there's also some evidence that vitamin D supplementation can cause issues with antipsychotic efficacy d/t increasing metabolism of CYP3A4:

 
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Vitamin D and opioid abuse

Pregnancy outcomes: The first study stated that monitoring of Vitamin D antenatally should be "mandatory."
 
Everyone needs Ozempic, Vit D, and Caplyta? (APA should create a focus group)
 
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