Are Physicians Being Squeezed?

[Forthegood]

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Melanoleuca-- You are right. The guy surely was given everything and knows nothing.

But just to get this straight, what have you done with your life?

You can not possibly believe the guy is an idiot.

I am not sure if you are trolling or really believe this...

And Ronald Reagan is your example of a THOUGHTFUL person? Yeah, he handled the AIDS epidemic so well...

I would love to hold you to the same scrutiny in which you hold the leaders of the free world. And why do you always use Bush as an example? What point are you trying to make with that?

If you put Bush against Obama in a debate, what do you think would be the result?

Yes, I am judging you.

 

[maceo]

Likewise, academic credentials are deathly important if you are Republican president but if you are a Democrat the importance is variable depending on whether they are better than the Republican presidents...a "C" average and an MBA for a Republican showing a distressing lack of intellectual accomplishment while the same or worse for a Democrat is irrelevant and in no why hinders them gaining the title, "Smartest Man In the Friggin' World."

obama was editor of the harvard law review. do you achieve that with c grades? i dont know the answer to that question because i know nothing about lawschool but i would think not.

 

[maceo]

lhttp://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB122108881386721289.html

Obama has not released transcripts for his grades from Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law. He has also not released his SAT and LSAT scores. No explanation has been offered for not releasing them. Per the Wall Street Journal September 11, 2008, "Obama's Lost Years," Obama graduated from Columbia University (to which he transferred after his first two years at Occidental College in California), with a degree in Political Science without honors, so had a GPA less than a 3.3. His roomate Sohale Siddiqi indicated Obama itially felt alienated, felt "very lost," and used drugs to get high, which could have led to low grades initially. The roomate indicates that he then turned serious and "stopped getting high." Obama transferred to Columbia because he was concerned with urban issues. Based on his overall undergraduate GPA of less than a 3.3, Mr. Obama's admission to Harvard Law School may reflect affirmative action statutes, low grades early, then higher grades later (purely speculation) and/or other factors.
At Harvard Law School, Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude, which, according to the Havard Law School website, is awarded to the top 10% of Harvard Law School students.
Also at Harvard Law School, Obama was accepted as one of 85-90 Editors of the Harvard Law Review, out of an estimated 1,000 students from the 2L and 3L classes that might have sought this honor. Obama was also elected President of the Law Review, which according to a Harvard Law spokesperson is not based at all on academics, but on other measures as would occure in any club.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Seems like we know the story.
1. Obama got poor undergrad grades. Worse than McCain or Bush? Unknown, but they'd have to be pretty bad to be worse than those two. McCain was at the bottom of his class, and Bush didn't do hot either.
2. Obama got let into Harvard law due to affirmative action. Even though I like Obama, I'll call it like it is.
3. Obama aced Harvard Law school, which accepts the brightest students in the nation.

So why isn't he releasing his transcripts? Because #1 and #2 look bad. Does that mean he's an academically weak student? Do you think academically weak students normally score in the top 10% at Harvard Law school? You tell me.

 

[copingmethods]

Why won't Mr. Obama release his transcripts from Columbia and Harvard?

Because no one cares?

 

[Impromptu]

They care more about his birth certificate and if he qualifies to be president.

 

[chessknt]

No, I haven't changed my mind : it's quid pro quo. Obama wanted the spending bill to go his way, including things that democratic members of Congress did not want. The sheer magnitude of it was so much that even many of the democrats did not want to waste that much Federal money.

How do you think he got the holdouts to agree to let it go through? It's horse trading. The man's platform is change, and he has changed a large number of things in the executive branch. However, in order to take real actions to make his proposed changes go through, he has to still play the game and make compromises. The very nature of being a politician means even the best ones do have to compromise.

I distinctly remember him saying no more pork. Yet he signed a bill with pork in it. That sounds like compromising his values, not "horse trading." What if he agreed to have gay rights suppressed to fulfill some other goal he has? Is that horse trading too? What exactly is the limit on what values he is allowed to compromise and which ones he isnt? It is a slippery slope and he boarded it with his first major bill passed.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

I distinctly remember him saying no more pork. Yet he signed a bill with pork in it. That sounds like compromising his values, not "horse trading." What if he agreed to have gay rights suppressed to fulfill some other goal he has? Is that horse trading too? What exactly is the limit on what values he is allowed to compromise and which ones he isnt? It is a slippery slope and he boarded it with his first major bill passed.

Has there been a politician who has gotten anything done in the past 200 years who didn't compromise?

OBAMA : "You know, the days of just pork coming out of Congress as a strategy, those days are over."

Only a rabid conservative would see that statement as a promise "no more pork, EVER, from Congress while I'm the prez"

 

[chessknt]

Only a rabid obamamaniac would go to such extreme illogical lengths to defend some of his actions. I mean honestly, you dont see a promise in that statement? Look at the ****ing title of the article. Yet what happened to get the fatty useless piece of ... err stimulus bill passed? Yep.

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Only a rabid obamamaniac would go to such extreme illogical lengths to defend some of his actions. I mean honestly, you dont see a promise in that statement? Look at the ****ing title of the article. Yet what happened to get the fatty useless piece of ... err stimulus bill passed? Yep.

What percentage of the stimulus bill was pork?

Did Obama write the article title, or the news media?

 

[chessknt]

Thats right, lets use percentages because that bill was so incredibly huge (like 1/10 of our annual GDP) any number I provide will pale in comparison.

I am talking about compromising his values to forward an agenda quickly instead of let the congress tough it out like it needs to. Change doesnt come easy, and if Congress needs to fight it out and let blood be spilled to get things done, then that is part of his change.

You apparently dont hold this particular value very important, but I do. Lets say he agreed to ban all forms of abortion in exchange for the stiumulus, would that have been ok too? Where is the line on this?

 

[GeraldMonroe]

Thats right, lets use percentages because that bill was so incredibly huge (like 1/10 of our annual GDP) any number I provide will pale in comparison.

The amount does matter. If the pork were, say, only 3% or so of the entire project (liberal commentator), that wouldn't really amount to anything. 97% efficiency is pretty good by government standards.

If it were 50%-98% of the bill (conservative commentators) then it would be pretty bad.

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/stimulus_bill_bravado.html is what I found. You can read it for yourself and do the math. 3% looks about right.

Obama never once promised to eliminate all pork. He did appear to try, cutting it down to a measily few billion on an 800 billion dollar bill. I'm impressed. I know I couldn't do better, and I don't think any other SDNers could, either. If you were president tommorow, you could refuse to pass the bill until ALL pork is removed...and never get anything done. What's 24 billion or so in pork between friends, anyway?

 

[DarknightX]

I can't see a huge difference between George W. Bush and Obama....to me, they seem like the same guy.

George W. Bush - conservative who had the highest spending administration in the history of the US.

Barack Obama - liberal who has the highest spending administration in the history of the US.


New day, same crap.

 

[Slack3r]

no way man! Change has come to america!! Yes we can!!!!111one

Get real.

 

[circulus vitios]

I'm caught up on being intellectually honest. I'm focusing on IQ because I read the transcript of what the man had to say during that 'town hall meeting'. He answered questions from the live audience in a manner that did not appear to give him a chance to prepare ahead of time. He answered each question with a more or less straight answer, with little doublespeak, and a reasonably well thought out position. For this reason, I think the man is one of the better politicians to reach this level in a very long time. The media doesn't swoon over him merely because the man is half black.

How about you read the transcript of the man's talk in it's entirety (took me about 25 minutes) and get back to me after you've looked at the primary source, and tell me if you still think the man's an idiot. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Open-for-Questions-Town-Hall/

One of the better politicians? He's a slick talking liar who can't speak for **** when his teleprompter is removed.

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I watched the presidential debates. He's very skilled at saying something without saying anything at all. Answer in lofty generalities without making any specific points then conclude with a bit of HOPEn'CHANGE™.

As for being intelligent? He refuses to release his SAT and LSAT scores. He graduated with a political science degree from Columbia without honors (<3.3 GPA).

 

[wasvsdal]

I work as an accountant right now makin 53k (with bonuses 59k). If only I could get into medical school...this job is mind-numbing, boring, bureaucratic, and plain old useless. I really hope things work out for me. As far as the salary issue, while 60k isnt enough...150k definitely is! If you want more money from your field, take on more responsibility - aka start your own practice/business. In terms of career look at what you want out of your job if this was a money-free society.

 

[chessknt]

The amount does matter. If the pork were, say, only 3% or so of the entire project (liberal commentator), that wouldn't really amount to anything. 97% efficiency is pretty good by government standards.

If it were 50%-98% of the bill (conservative commentators) then it would be pretty bad.

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/stimulus_bill_bravado.html is what I found. You can read it for yourself and do the math. 3% looks about right.

Obama never once promised to eliminate all pork. He did appear to try, cutting it down to a measily few billion on an 800 billion dollar bill. I'm impressed. I know I couldn't do better, and I don't think any other SDNers could, either. If you were president tommorow, you could refuse to pass the bill until ALL pork is removed...and never get anything done. What's 24 billion or so in pork between friends, anyway?

Wait how did he try? All he did was sign the bill like a good democrat the second it landed on his desk.

And since when was $24B wasted not a big deal? I think thats a big deal. Why does he expect change to come if he just continues to do business as usual. If he refused to support the bill, he would have put enormous pressure on Congress to compromise with Republicans to get the 2/3 needed to overturn veto (or scrap the bill and make a new one). In either case, this would have led to a more balanced budget/one without pork in it. Like I said, change comes with pain but he wasnt willing to lose his popularity cult over it because the guy is a tool.

And please stop the if you were president bs, I didnt run for president, he did. Part of his job is being scrutinized for every action he does, and he knew that when he ran for it. We need a strong leader in the office who is willing to alienate himself from both parties if it effects some sort of long lasting positive change that can reverse the bloated growth government has undergone as of late and maybe restore some of the capitalistic ideals that this country needs to function.

 

[maceo]

I work as an accountant right now makin 53k (with bonuses 59k). If only I could get into medical school...this job is mind-numbing, boring, bureaucratic, and plain old useless. I really hope things work out for me. As far as the salary issue, while 60k isnt enough...150k definitely is! If you want more money from your field, take on more responsibility - aka start your own practice/business. In terms of career look at what you want out of your job if this was a money-free society.

youll be singing a whole notha tune if you get anywhere in medicine. and thast a big if.

 

[Forthegood]

I'm really starting to lose faith in the world. I was always under the impression that people who made it to med school were intelligent, thoughtful, and logical. Well, I was wrong. This has proven it.

Then again, how could we ever expect a bunch of pre-meds to be "smart" when our own president is so obviously not up to standard.

Of course, if the guy was from the SUPERIOR conservative party he would be a golden god. But, he is not. After all, the conservative party has been to busy the past 10 years f***ing our country to worry about little things like qualified candidates (hence, Palin.)

 

[chessknt]

Or we could just accept that both parties completely suck and are full of thieving liars, leaving us with no other choice then to berate them and vote for the other major party next election, just to have the same thing happen again.

 

[Slack3r]

I work as an accountant right now makin 53k (with bonuses 59k). If only I could get into medical school...this job is mind-numbing, boring, bureaucratic, and plain old useless. I really hope things work out for me. As far as the salary issue, while 60k isnt enough...150k definitely is! If you want more money from your field, take on more responsibility - aka start your own practice/business. In terms of career look at what you want out of your job if this was a money-free society.

Work harder? In a few years (3-5 if you're working hard) you can be promoted to a senior level accountant, at which point you're making six figures. Bust your ass and you make partner. Then you're made. Or you could start your own firm. There's money in every field, you just can't be the lowest common denominator to get it.

 

[DarknightX]

Or we could just accept that both parties completely suck and are full of thieving liars, leaving us with no other choice then to berate them and vote for the other major party next election, just to have the same thing happen again.

Agreed...some of you really need to make an effort to break out of the us/them, left/right paradigm.

 

[45408]

I can't see a huge difference between George W. Bush and Obama....to me, they seem like the same guy.

George W. Bush - conservative who had the highest spending administration in the history of the US.

Barack Obama - liberal who has the highest spending administration in the history of the US.


New day, same crap.

Yep, welcome to politics. The Republicans can't even jokingly call themselves the fiscal conservative option. This is why I went libertarian.

 

[womp]

Work harder? In a few years (3-5 if you're working hard) you can be promoted to a senior level accountant, at which point you're making six figures. Bust your ass and you make partner. Then you're made. Or you could start your own firm. There's money in every field, you just can't be the lowest common denominator to get it.

Or you could be stuck in a dead-end position that maxes out at $70k, because your boss doesn't like you very much or he likes his own job too much. There are a lot more variables in many careers outside medicine. You can easily bust your ass and still not get anywhere in the business world. That would be truly demoralizing when you turn 40. Why do you think so many strip clubs cater to married businessmen?

Since a retail pharmacist can easily make $100-110k straight out of school, I truly believe physicians and surgeons are underpaid. But would I personally ever be a retail pharmacist? Not unless you paid me twice a doctor's salary. Retail pharmacy is a mind-numbingly boring job and many pharmacies have drive-thrus, so the job is essentially similar to a McDonald's french fry server.

As someone who worked in the finance world and made loads of money before medical school, I can honestly say the worst feeling in the world is to waste your youth crunching numbers for someone else over something that ultimately doesn't matter and most often never even sees the light of day. Even if you make VP someday, what was it all for? Yay, you saw through a successful merger; big whup and then you died. It's never a waste to spend your youth learning and striving to make a living for yourself and only yourself.

Fair compensation is absolutely important, but it would be equally intellectually dishonest to say that there isn't an extra appeal to medicine that is unique amongst nearly all other high paying professions.