Are there any other medical schools besides NYU that guarantee residency of your choice?

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Alaxandra

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NYU's 3 year MD program guarantees placement into a residency of your choice at NYU. I think this is a great ROAD to competitive specialties, if you know what I mean. Are there any other med schools like this that guarantee residency of your choice? Or any particular programs? I dont care if it's DO or MD. And by residency of your choice, i mean really any residency that med school offers, not just family practice or whatever.
 
I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be cautious about making your decision to go to a specific medical school for this reason. Medical school graduates choose to go to different residencies for a wide variety of reasons that we pre-meds can't hope to fully understand or appreciate the importance of right now. Chances are, you will want to explore residencies outside of NYU, or whatever other place. If you are a strong candidate/student (and you would have to be to go to NYU) then you will likely do just fine at placing at a residency of your choice (or close to your-choice) from a well respected medical school (accredited, non Carib).
 
NYU's 3 year MD program guarantees placement into a residency of your choice at NYU. I think this is a great ROAD to competitive specialties, if you know what I mean. Are there any other med schools like this that guarantee residency of your choice? Or any particular programs? I dont care if it's DO or MD. And by residency of your choice, i mean really any residency that med school offers, not just family practice or whatever.

You know, even if you wanted to do NYU's three year med program (and it seems like tons of people are interested in it-- at least the only questions people asked on my interview day pertained to the 3 year program), you would need experiences relevant to whatever field you're interested in for the 3 year med program. That's the point of the program. You already know what you want to do when you've graduated med school, and you have the experiences to prove it (research in that area, shadowing that particular doctor, etc).

A lot of people look at NYU's 3 year med program like it's a free ticket to any competitive residency (like ROAD), but in reality, the residency directors aren't going to pick you to even interview for the 3 year program if you don't have any experiences relevant to the competitive specialities and your only reason in applying is because you want a free ticket to a strong residency program. They will see right through it.

Also, if you do well enough in med school and do research for your speciality interests, you shouldn't have much of an issue getting your foot into a residency of your choice.
 
Also, if you do well enough in med school and do research for your speciality interests, you shouldn't have much of an issue getting your foot into a residency of your choice.

No. Overall, of US Seniors who successfully match, only 50% get their first choice residency. About 15% match into their 2nd choice, 10% to their 3rd choice . . . 20% match lower than that. And that's with all of the non-competitive specialties factored in.

I cannot comment on NYU's ROAD residencies, so even if you are competitive for this special path, you need to investigate, but NYU 1) is not a strong program in all fields, 2) has some programs known for being extremely clinically oriented (minimal support for research), 3) has some programs reputed to offer inadequate autonomy (given a paying patient population who demands to see the attending), and like many institutions 4) does not always have good representation in all subspecialties. Regarding (4), even if you know exactly which field you want to enter, I will say it verges on impossible to know what if any subspecialty you want to do (things you like academically may bore you to death in clinic), and you may regret this type of program if you find out your area of interest is absent or if the respective faculty leave the year before you enter residency. That said, I know it offers excellent training in many fields.

With regards to residency in general, changes in program directors can completely alter the tenor of a program -- it can change the balance of clinical/research focus, and occasionally results in multiple faculty leaving a program. If you essentially commit yourself to a program 3-4 years ahead of time, it may not be the program you were hoping for when you arrive. I don't think as a pre-med you are well equipped to evaluate residency programs (it's difficulty when you're doing it as an MS IV), and one of the biggest factors in ranking programs ends up being gut feeling when you visit a place -- you meet the faculty and PGY 1/2 who will be your senior residents, and you evaluate their interests and personality. You cannot do that ahead of time.
 
No. Overall, of US Seniors who successfully match, only 50% get their first choice residency. About 15% match into their 2nd choice, 10% to their 3rd choice . . . 20% match lower than that. And that's with all of the non-competitive specialties factored in.

By "if you do well enough in med school and do research for your speciality interests, you shouldn't have much of an issue getting your foot into a residency of your choice," I meant getting a residency position in the speciality area you're interested in pursuing even if it's not your first, second, or third choice lol.
 
I cannot comment on NYU's ROAD residencies, so even if you are competitive for this special path, you need to investigate, but NYU 1) is not a strong program in all fields, 2) has some programs known for being extremely clinically oriented (minimal support for research), 3) has some programs reputed to offer inadequate autonomy (given a paying patient population who demands to see the attending), and like many institutions 4) does not always have good representation in all subspecialties. Regarding (4), even if you know exactly which field you want to enter, I will say it verges on impossible to know what if any subspecialty you want to do (things you like academically may bore you to death in clinic), and you may regret this type of program if you find out your area of interest is absent or if the respective faculty leave the year before you enter residency. That said, I know it offers excellent training in many fields.

It seemed to me on interview day that NYU is really try to expand its research based and is looking to invest a lot more into research in the future.
 
. I don't think as a pre-med you are well equipped to evaluate residency programs (it's difficulty when you're doing it as an MS IV), and one of the biggest factors in ranking programs ends up being gut feeling when you visit a place -- you meet the faculty and PGY 1/2 who will be your senior residents, and you evaluate their interests and personality. You cannot do that ahead of time.

I have a question then. If you can't really evaluate them ahead of them, then how do MS4s decide how to rank their residency program on their ERAS? From their audition rotations? But don't MS4s go on 1-2 audition rotations (if at all)?
 
I thought the point of the 3 year program was to fill in more of the primary care positions? Not offer an easy ticket to ROADS specialties.

Nope, you can apply to any of their residencies, ranging from internal med to plastics.
 
I have a question then. If you can't really evaluate them ahead of them, then how do MS4s decide how to rank their residency program on their ERAS? From their audition rotations? But don't MS4s go on 1-2 audition rotations (if at all)?

As an MS-4 going through that now, let me tell you it is not easy. Any number of factors come into play. The clinical volume, the research support, resident autonomy, fellowship placement, collegiality of residents/faculty, big names in the department, location/location/location, pay + perks (money for books/parking/food/loupes/conferences etc.), and the all important "gut-feeling." It's hard enough to figure these things out in a 1-2 day interview, knowing them basically sight unseen about NYU when you have 0 other places to compare it to is basically impossible.

It also seems highly risky to commit to a residency before undergoing 3rd year rotations. I know some students that knew they wanted one field throughout med school and stuck with it, but they are the exception, not the rule. I, and most of my classmates, changed their mind several times.

Finally, if you are good enough to get into this (probably highly selective) program at an already very selective medical school, you're probably good enough to get into the field of your choice anyways. The only truly intriguing aspect of it to me is the ability to skip a year of tuition.
 
As an MS-4 going through that now, let me tell you it is not easy. Any number of factors come into play. The clinical volume, the research support, resident autonomy, fellowship placement, collegiality of residents/faculty, big names in the department, location/location/location, pay + perks (money for books/parking/food/loupes/conferences etc.), and the all important "gut-feeling." It's hard enough to figure these things out in a 1-2 day interview, knowing them basically sight unseen about NYU when you have 0 other places to compare it to is basically impossible.

It also seems highly risky to commit to a residency before undergoing 3rd year rotations. I know some students that knew they wanted one field throughout med school and stuck with it, but they are the exception, not the rule. I, and most of my classmates, changed their mind several times.

Finally, if you are good enough to get into this (probably highly selective) program at an already very selective medical school, you're probably good enough to get into the field of your choice anyways. The only truly intriguing aspect of it to me is the ability to skip a year of tuition.

Can you find that info on websites or do you have to go to the interview and get that info? Wait, but don't you rank your choices on ERAS before even visiting residencies to interview? Or do you rank your choices later?

Basically what NYU did is that they just got rid of the 4th year of med school (avoiding everything interview related for residencies and basically being a second semester senior in college again-- at least my friends say that that's what the 4th year is like). That's why it's a combined program with one of their residencies.
 
Can you find that info on websites or do you have to go to the interview and get that info? Wait, but don't you rank your choices on ERAS before even visiting residencies to interview? Or do you rank your choices later?

Nope, you apply via ERAS (no rankings, just sent out X number of applications), get interview offers, go on interviews, then rank the programs through the NRMP (separate from ERAS).
 
Nope, you apply via ERAS (no rankings, just sent out X number of applications), get interview offers, go on interviews, then rank the programs through the NRMP (separate from ERAS).

Oh okay. Makes lots more sense now.
 
It seemed to me on interview day that NYU is really try to expand its research based and is looking to invest a lot more into research in the future.

Whatever the school wide goal is, you need to look specifically at the residency program for a given field. I'm sure some departments do more research than others, but regardless of the goals, if you want to be an academic physician with your feet significantly in certain types of research, regardless of how a program is changing, you're not going to be prepared in the same way as you would be by a program that already has a strong research environment established. You don't grow a research core overnight just because you want to.

I have a question then. If you can't really evaluate them ahead of them, then how do MS4s decide how to rank their residency program on their ERAS? From their audition rotations? But don't MS4s go on 1-2 audition rotations (if at all)?

ERAS is the application system. You apply everywhere you want to and then the programs offer you interviews. After that you rank them on a different website.

The experience of clinical rotations in general and the many interactions you have and opportunities to ask questions of all residents as an MS3 or 4 as well as the experience you have with hospital logistics will help you decide what you are looking for an alert you to more questions/concerns you need to have about your future residency. And regardless of audition rotations, you'll have done at least 2 rotations in the field of interest (even if at your home institution), so you learn pros/cons of the field from that -- how would the experience be different at a place that doesn't have interns on the team? if it's a field with a prelim year, what system do they have in place at the beginning of PGY2 to help you transition or do they just throw you to the wolves when you haven't touched the field since you were an MS4? What other programs/departments at the hospital do you need to ask about to make sure they have a good relationship with your residency? Do you want more or less outpatient in your training? Why? What type of certifications/limitations does the hospital have for certain procedures if any in your field and what does that mean to your training? How are patients distributed between teaching and non-teaching teams if there are both? What percentage of patients are restricted to attendings and who are those patients (i.e. are all the patients with disease X being seen by the hot-shot specialist b/c they're paying out of pocket and thus you won't actually learn to manage disease X paradoxically b/c that hospital has a highly regarded specialist for it)?

When you go to interview for a residency, it is typically over 2 days with a dinner/social gathering with residents the night before to get to ask questions away from faculty followed by an entire day of discussing the program with you, having interviews with numerous faculty, and meeting other applicants who are actually in my experience a great resource for learning about differences in programs. Even if everybody were totally up front with you, you as a pre-med won't have the context to understand the implications of what they're saying with regards to many pros/cons. A lot of it comes down to gut instinct, but if you're only interviewing with one program you'll have no basis for comparison. The first few interviews I did were poor fits, but I didn't realize that until I had basis for comparison and experienced a better fit. Likewise, I've learned a lot of questions/concerns from other applicants on the interview trail -- you won't have that.

That said, it's NYU & I doubt any of the programs are bottom of the barrel in terms of training. You do have to be wary even with good programs that they might be malignant.

Also, at each step further along this path, you have more and more clout in the admissions decision. By the time you're applying for residency, if you're a strong applicant for your field, the interview has a significant component of you interviewing the program to rank them as opposed to you as the applicant being the only one scrutinized. I say this b/c I don't want you to feel like you have to do this b/c residency application is as much of a crap shoot as med school admissions, and you shouldn't feel like this opportunity to secure yourself a spot is an offer you can't refuse.
 
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Whatever the school wide goal is, you need to look specifically at the residency program for a given field. I'm sure some departments do more research than others, but regardless of the goals, if you want to be an academic physician with your feet significantly in certain types of research, regardless of how a program is changing, you're not going to be prepared in the same way as you would be by a program that already has a strong research environment established. You don't grow a research core overnight just because you want to.



ERAS is the application system. You apply everywhere you want to and then the programs offer you interviews. After that you rank them on a different website.

The experience of clinical rotations in general and the many interactions you have and opportunities to ask questions of all residents as an MS3 or 4 as well as the experience you have with hospital logistics will help you decide what you are looking for an alert you to more questions/concerns you need to have about your future residency. And regardless of audition rotations, you'll have done at least 2 rotations in the field of interest (even if at your home institution), so you learn pros/cons of the field from that -- how would the experience be different at a place that doesn't have interns on the team? if it's a field with a prelim year, what system do they have in place at the beginning of PGY2 to help you transition or do they just throw you to the wolves when you haven't touched the field since you were an MS4? What other programs/departments at the hospital do you need to ask about to make sure they have a good relationship with your residency? Do you want more or less outpatient in your training? Why? What type of certifications/limitations does the hospital have for certain procedures if any in your field and what does that mean to your training? How are patients distributed between teaching and non-teaching teams if there are both? What percentage of patients are restricted to attendings and who are those patients (i.e. are all the patients with disease X being seen by the hot-shot specialist b/c they're paying out of pocket and thus you won't actually learn to manage disease X paradoxically b/c that hospital has a highly regarded specialist for it)?

When you go to interview for a residency, it is typically over 2 days with a dinner/social gathering with residents the night before to get to ask questions away from faculty followed by an entire day of discussing the program with you, having interviews with numerous faculty, and meeting other applicants who are actually in my experience a great resource for learning about differences in programs. Even if everybody were totally up front with you, you as a pre-med won't have the context to understand the implications of what they're saying with regards to many pros/cons. A lot of it comes down to gut instinct, but if you're only interviewing with one program you'll have no basis for comparison. The first few interviews I did were poor fits, but I didn't realize that until I had basis for comparison and experienced a better fit. Likewise, I've learned a lot of questions/concerns from other applicants on the interview trail -- you won't have that.

That said, it's NYU & I doubt any of the programs are bottom of the barrel in terms of training. You do have to be wary even with good programs that they might be malignant.

Also, at each step further along this path, you have more and more clout in the admissions decision. By the time you're applying for residency, if you're a strong applicant for your field, the interview has a significant component of you interviewing the program to rank them as opposed to you as the applicant being the only one scrutinized. I say this b/c I don't want you to feel like you have to do this b/c residency application is as much of a crap shoot as med school admissions, and you shouldn't feel like this opportunity to secure yourself a spot is an offer you can't refuse.

Good advice pietachok! Thanks!
 
By "if you do well enough in med school and do research for your speciality interests, you shouldn't have much of an issue getting your foot into a residency of your choice," I meant getting a residency position in the speciality area you're interested in pursuing even if it's not your first, second, or third choice lol.

I don't think that this is true for some of the ultra competitive specialties like derm or plastics that have average step scores around 250 and match rates <70% (making this up but it is published). If you have exposure to one of those fields and you are totally certain that you want to do it NYU's program seems like a great option.
 
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I don't think that this is true for some of the ultra competitive specialties like derm or plastics that have average step scores around 250 and match rates >70% (making this up but it is published). If you have exposure to one of those fields and you are totally certain that you want to do it NYU's program seems like a great option.

Given how competitive these residencies are normally, I think the difficulty level of getting into NYU's plastic or derm program through this program would be similar. If anything, it might be harder. Those residencies, even if they accept applications for derm and plastics for the 3 year program, aren't required to accept someone into their residency program through the 3 year med program. I mean can you imagine how many people would apply to derm and plastics just because they thought it would an easy ticket to get a residency in a coveted lifestyle field?
 
Given how competitive these residencies are normally, I think the difficulty level of getting into NYU's plastic or derm program through this program would be similar. If anything, it might be harder. Those residencies, even if they accept applications for derm and plastics for the 3 year program, aren't required to accept someone into their residency program through the 3 year med program. I mean can you imagine how many people would apply to derm and plastics just because they thought it would an easy ticket to get a residency in a coveted lifestyle field?

NYU says that you can do the 3 year program for any specialty and have a guaranteed spot if accepted prior to matriculation. Looking at the #s , the average step 1 score for a matched plastics applicant is 249, over 1 sd above the mean. Whether getting that score is more difficult than getting into the 3 year program is impossible to say. For the 3 year program you have to have a really good reason for choosing that field, so I'd imagine the number of people applying just for the hell of it is pretty low.
 
NYU says that you can do the 3 year program for any specialty and have a guaranteed spot if accepted prior to matriculation. Looking at the #s , the average step 1 score for a matched plastics applicant is 249, over 1 sd above the mean. Whether getting that score is more difficult than getting into the 3 year program is impossible to say. For the 3 year program you have to have a really good reason for choosing that field, so I'd imagine the number of people applying just for the hell of it is pretty low.

They say that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that one particular residency is required to accept any applicants to the program.
 
I thought the point of the 3 year program was to fill in more of the primary care positions
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Why are there so many spambots these days...
 
Disclaimer: Interviewed at NYU, if accepted, will apply to this.

The one thing I'm worried about for this program is that they don't publish their continuing eligibility requirements. NYU is P/F, but I think they might require you to be in a certain percentile ranking to be eligible. What worries me is that this might be like Wash U's "guaranteed" admissions program that requires like a minumum 38 (!!!!) MCAT to complete. What if they have a crazy Step 1 limitation? I've looked around NYU's website and couldn't find anything about it (It'd be helpful if someone in the program or at NYU could comment about this). The thing is, if you that well in medical school anyway, you'd probably be able to match anywhere in the country anyway, and this program would just limit your flexibility.

On the other hand, I think it's a cool opportunity. I'm 100% interested in ortho, have shadowing, a ton of research and even a pub in the field, and I'm pretty sure that I could wrangle up a LOR from an ortho guy I worked for. To be able to have a residency set, save a year of tuition, and probably get long term mentoring would be awesome.
 
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Disclaimer: Interviewed at NYU, if accepted, will apply to this.

The one thing I'm worried about for this program is that they don't publish their continuing eligibility requirements. NYU is P/F, but I think they might require you to be in a certain percentile ranking to be eligible. What worries me is that this might be like Wash U's "guaranteed" admissions program that requires like a minumum 38 (!!!!) MCAT to complete. What if they have a crazy Step 1 limitation? I've looked around NYU's website and couldn't find anything about it (It'd be helpful if someone in the program or at NYU could comment about this). The thing is, if you that well in medical school anyway, you'd probably be able to match anywhere in the country anyway, and this program would just limit your flexibility.

On the other hand, I think it's a cool opportunity. I'm 100% interested in ortho, have shadowing, a ton of research and even a pub in the field, and I'm pretty sure that I could wrangle up a LOR from an ortho guy I worked for. To be able to have a residency set, save a year of tuition, and probably get long term mentoring would be awesome.

True, but like you said, it will probably have a minimum that if reached would give you flexibility on location. While NYU is a wonderful affiliation to have, not all of the NYU programs are as strong as other places. However, nothing beats saving a year. I for one will be happy to have 4 years to get a good chance to decide what I truly want. Being stuck with something day 1 isn't exactly ideal for me.
 
Disclaimer: Interviewed at NYU, if accepted, will apply to this.

The one thing I'm worried about for this program is that they don't publish their continuing eligibility requirements. NYU is P/F, but I think they might require you to be in a certain percentile ranking to be eligible. What worries me is that this might be like Wash U's "guaranteed" admissions program that requires like a minumum 38 (!!!!) MCAT to complete. What if they have a crazy Step 1 limitation? I've looked around NYU's website and couldn't find anything about it (It'd be helpful if someone in the program or at NYU could comment about this). The thing is, if you that well in medical school anyway, you'd probably be able to match anywhere in the country anyway, and this program would just limit your flexibility.

On the other hand, I think it's a cool opportunity. I'm 100% interested in ortho, have shadowing, a ton of research and even a pub in the field, and I'm pretty sure that I could wrangle up a LOR from an ortho guy I worked for. To be able to have a residency set, save a year of tuition, and probably get long term mentoring would be awesome.

They told us on interview day that the only requirement is that you have to stay in the top 50% of your class.
 
When I toured MSUCOM, the dean said that they had a residency match of over 98%. And people who don't match is usually because they don't want to for some reason. He said this is because they own 1/3 (~28 hospitals) of the DO residency spots in the country lol. So there really isn't a reason you shouldn't get a spot.
 
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