Are there PharmD jobs that don't require a license?

[mooseRx]

I'm approaching graduation and I have not been able to study properly for NAPLEX or the CPJE. During rotations, I was completely burned out and didn't study enough during downtimes. The past few weeks I have not been able to commit to a solid study schedule due to some personal problems. I will have more time in about two weeks. But as I try to study I realize how little I actually know. I just can't retain any information. When I try to study brand and generic names I just get frustrated that I haven't even been able to memorize the top 200 drugs. My study resources are the PassNaplexNow course (videos and the chartbook) and Quizlet. I haven't even been able to go through the whole video course even though I've had it for over a month. Even if I delay the exams, I really don't think I'm ever going to pass the NAPLEX or get my license.

I'm looking into alternatives to needing a license. Even if it means using my PharmD for something outside pharmacy. I have leads for medical writing and drug info associate jobs. Technically any role in industry doesn't require a license but I know it's highly recommended (usually for career growth/stability). Are there any jobs or fields out there that don't even look to see if someone has a license? I know this seems ridiculous but I really need to look into my options.

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[TheBlaah]

It seems ridiculous because it is ridiculous.

Instead of studying for the exams like you should be doing, you're finding a way to procrastinate even further by planning for scenarios that haven't even happened yet.

What you should be asking is advice on alternate methods to study.

 

[RxPreceptor]

Agreed, time management...

 

[dmd20000]

I sat down and cramming the whole review book and tried to memorize everything in it. I studied everyday for a couple months and passed easily.

 

[ReallyAznGuy]

Well, I have 2 friends who failed their MPJEs but they ended up working in industry. I do not recommend following their path as they spent their whole pharmacy student careers headed towards that path and knew they did not have to pass their exams.

 

[RxPreceptor]

I sat down and cramming the whole review book and tried to memorize everything in it. I studied everyday for a couple months and passed easily.

Similar experience....was quite disheartened/disappointed how my school taught (chaos, disorganization, and lack of focus). Was proactive in deliberate studying for rotations and the NAPLEX roughly 2 years before taking the exam...minimum 1 hour a day...some days 6-12 hours (I called those weekends) with breaks in between sessions. Find some motivation

 

[wazoodog]

I remember spending about a month or so of dedicated studying a few hours every day. After the exam, I realized all that studying helped with less than 10 questions. The questions felt either simple/basic like a given, or so out there that I doubt even 3x the amount of studying would have given me the answer. There were only a handful that fell in between.

 

[lord999]

Wow, that's so serious. I remember my entire class barely studying for the NAPLEX like the rest of my classmates and finishing with a high pass before taking the first break (>97% first take pass rate that year for my class). Everyone studied for CALPLEX (last year they did it) and the MPJE, which was much trickier than it is now for the initial states we were licensing in. The hardest exam for pharmacy I ever took after school was the insane Canadian PEBC, where you actually had to know your analytic chemistry to pass where the CALPLEX was easy by comparison. Even with the revisions, NAPLEX is not a hard exam.

@wazoodog 's experience is the norm (also, depending on his/her score, most of the questions that really stump you are the test ones that never make it into the final version). You should practice enough that it's a fairly instinctual answer. You should focus your preparation on what you know you don't know and use the practice exams as diagnostic.

Covering all the bases like many do, you feel hopeless at times. You have test anxiety, and you shouldn't give in to your fear yet. Just keep working a little bit and spending some disciplined time with those sections. Cramming does not work well in this scenario, it's more of a breadth than depth test that usual practice should keep you passable. Almost everyone though feels that they overstudied, and that's a good thing, NAPLEX is a minimum competency and CPJE is not the monster CALPLEX used to be.

In other words, think of the stupidest practice pharmacist you know in CA, and they passed too.

 

[wazoodog]

Wow, that's so serious. I remember my entire class barely studying for the NAPLEX like the rest of my classmates and finishing with a high pass before taking the first break (>97% first take pass rate that year for my class). Everyone studied for CALPLEX (last year they did it) and the MPJE, which was much trickier than it is now for the initial states we were licensing in. The hardest exam for pharmacy I ever took after school was the insane Canadian PEBC, where you actually had to know your analytic chemistry to pass where the CALPLEX was easy by comparison. Even with the revisions, NAPLEX is not a hard exam.

@wazoodog 's experience is the norm (also, depending on his/her score, most of the questions that really stump you are the test ones that never make it into the final version). You should practice enough that it's a fairly instinctual answer. You should focus your preparation on what you know you don't know and use the practice exams as diagnostic.

Covering all the bases like many do, you feel hopeless at times. You have test anxiety, and you shouldn't give in to your fear yet. Just keep working a little bit and spending some disciplined time with those sections. Cramming does not work well in this scenario, it's more of a breadth than depth test that usual practice should keep you passable. Almost everyone though feels that they overstudied, and that's a good thing, NAPLEX is a minimum competency and CPJE is not the monster CALPLEX used to be.

In other words, think of the stupidest practice pharmacist you know in CA, and they passed too.

All I remember about my score is it was enough to pass with a safe enough margin, but nothing impressive to write home about.

I wasn't a great student by any means. I definitely wasn't the most efficient when it came to study skills. My memory is pretty good, but no one I've come across that has survived pharmacy school has terrible memory. So, unless you have an exceedingly talented memory I think most people are in the same boat.

Seriously, the questions are going to be either a given (like furosemide is a diuretic)... or they're going to be so obscure that the chances of you coming across it in your study materials is pretty unlikely. I found the MPJE to be a more tricky exam because many of the answer choices could be narrowed down to 2 but not clearly 1 over the other. I did take my exams several years ago though.

If you went to a decent pharmacy school (1st attempt pass rate > 90%), what you already know is probably enough to pass.

 

[Hels2007]

How much of it is just nerves? The only people I know who didn't pass NAPLEX were just overcome with anxiety to the point of being physically unable to complete the exam. Also, sitting and staring at books and notes for hours at a time is super inefficient and probably does more harm than good. Study for 2-3 hours in the morning and review/practice test questions for 1-2 hours in the evening, and spend the rest of the time on your personal well-being, it will do more good than spending 10 hours fretting and feeling guilty and only actively retaining information for a couple hours of that time at best...

 

[RxPreceptor]

How much of it is just nerves? The only people I know who didn't pass NAPLEX were just overcome with anxiety to the point of being physically unable to complete the exam. Also, sitting and staring at books and notes for hours at a time is super inefficient and probably does more harm than good. Study for 2-3 hours in the morning and review/practice test questions for 1-2 hours in the evening, and spend the rest of the time on your personal well-being, it will do more good than spending 10 hours fretting and feeling guilty and only actively retaining information for a couple hours of that time at best...

Unfortunately I had an intern who seemed characteristic of your description...trying to get said person to simulate the test environment along with the habits you mentioned seem like a good idea.

 

[Sparda29]

The NAPLEX isn't that hard at all. It's just time management and knowing not to spend too much time on one question.

I was done with it in under 2 hours and I didn't study ****.

 

[RxPreceptor]

The NAPLEX isn't that hard at all. It's just time management and knowing not to spend too much time on one question.

I was done with it in under 2 hours and I didn't study ****.

Definitely agree with you on this...I did commit to daily studying well in advance; however, I did NOT even take a practice exam or finish all the questions on the exam (close though). I hit 2 standard deviations above average, despite wasting time not being familiar with using the digital calculator and double checking my math...should have just been more confident and I would've hit like 140/150 or so (very satisfied with how I did though and getting ready to train some interns in the next coming year) #Non-breeder lifestyle, LMFAO

On a side note, it's nice seeing @Sparda29 back in action (I was a tad worried we'd lose you a while back over some trivial nonsense)

 

[zNoodlez]

I'm approaching graduation and I have not been able to study properly for NAPLEX or the CPJE. During rotations, I was completely burned out and didn't study enough during downtimes. The past few weeks I have not been able to commit to a solid study schedule due to some personal problems. I will have more time in about two weeks. But as I try to study I realize how little I actually know. I just can't retain any information. When I try to study brand and generic names I just get frustrated that I haven't even been able to memorize the top 200 drugs. My study resources are the PassNaplexNow course (videos and the chartbook) and Quizlet. I haven't even been able to go through the whole video course even though I've had it for over a month. Even if I delay the exams, I really don't think I'm ever going to pass the NAPLEX or get my license.

I'm looking into alternatives to needing a license. Even if it means using my PharmD for something outside pharmacy. I have leads for medical writing and drug info associate jobs. Technically any role in industry doesn't require a license but I know it's highly recommended (usually for career growth/stability). Are there any jobs or fields out there that don't even look to see if someone has a license? I know this seems ridiculous but I really need to look into my options.

There certainly are, but they often require you to have pretty good street cred.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I remember spending about a month or so of dedicated studying a few hours every day. After the exam, I realized all that studying helped with less than 10 questions. The questions felt either simple/basic like a given, or so out there that I doubt even 3x the amount of studying would have given me the answer. There were only a handful that fell in between.

this exactly - I studied for a few hours each night after work (I started work the day after my rotations finished as a grad intern). I scored a 129- I guarantee you studying for anything other than the calculations gave me the right answer on exactly one question - which I still remember today.

 

[projektreverb]

this exactly - I studied for a few hours each night after work (I started work the day after my rotations finished as a grad intern). I scored a 129- I guarantee you studying for anything other than the calculations gave me the right answer on exactly one question - which I still remember today.

Boom. Honestly I wish I hadn’t studied anything else other than the calculations.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I agree with the general theme that studying barely helped. Definitely got a few questions just from reading some of the less clinical chapters the day before/of my NAPLEX though. Things like compounding excipients that you can easily commit to memory for a couple hours.

I was generally somewhat upset the evening after my exam thinking about how much time I spent studying. 1.75L Wild Turkey 101 was on sale though so I got over it pretty quickly.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I agree with the general theme that studying barely helped. Definitely got a few questions just from reading some of the less clinical chapters the day before/of my NAPLEX though. Things like compounding excipients that you can easily commit to memory for a couple hours.

I was generally somewhat upset the evening after my exam thinking about how much time I spent studying. 1.75L Wild Turkey 101 was on sale though so I got over it pretty quickly.

lol

I am still amazed, my exam had exactly zero questions on diabetes/HTN/cholesterol. Tons on TB, AIDS, and vaccinations.

Bacardi 151 was my poison of choice back in those days

 

[watchfulwaiting1957]

I'm approaching graduation and I have not been able to study properly for NAPLEX or the CPJE. During rotations, I was completely burned out and didn't study enough during downtimes. The past few weeks I have not been able to commit to a solid study schedule due to some personal problems. I will have more time in about two weeks. But as I try to study I realize how little I actually know. I just can't retain any information. When I try to study brand and generic names I just get frustrated that I haven't even been able to memorize the top 200 drugs. My study resources are the PassNaplexNow course (videos and the chartbook) and Quizlet. I haven't even been able to go through the whole video course even though I've had it for over a month. Even if I delay the exams, I really don't think I'm ever going to pass the NAPLEX or get my license.

I'm looking into alternatives to needing a license. Even if it means using my PharmD for something outside pharmacy. I have leads for medical writing and drug info associate jobs. Technically any role in industry doesn't require a license but I know it's highly recommended (usually for career growth/stability). Are there any jobs or fields out there that don't even look to see if someone has a license? I know this seems ridiculous but I really need to look into my options.

The good news first:
Yes there are jobs you can get that don't require a active RpH license. Jobs such as Managed Care and other insurance type white collar jobs do not always require a license.
The bad news: It will be a giant red flag and will come up during interviews at most jobs. Not passing the NAPLEX and MPJE may be viewed by potential employers as the applicant being lazy or having a deficient in knowledge about the field. Most of the pharmDs that failed the NAPLEX or MPJE are living with their parents either not working or working a low wage job while on IBR.

I would try you best to pass the NAPLEX you are given 5 tries in most states.

I agree with the general theme that studying barely helped. Definitely got a few questions just from reading some of the less clinical chapters the day before/of my NAPLEX though. Things like compounding excipients that you can easily commit to memory for a couple hours.

I was generally somewhat upset the evening after my exam thinking about how much time I spent studying. 1.75L Wild Turkey 101 was on sale though so I got over it pretty quickly.

I disagree that studying didn't help. For me studying helped greatly to pass the NAPLEX. Now the MPJE? not so much. I studied for 4 weeks for the NAPLEX and 2 weeks for the MPJE. I found the MPJE to be a much wider scope of knowledge.

 

[mooseRx]

I have really been struggling to study. I think it's mostly anxiety and just trying to find a decent job in this market. I will study and give the test my best shot. Since I'm going the industry route, if I don't pass the NAPLEX then maybe it won't be the end of the world. But I should still try.

I really am struggling with this feeling that I didn't even deserve to graduate. I really didn't have a too impressive GPA from didactics and rotations kicked me down so much I didn't even have time (or motivation?) to study.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[abrahamdrinkin]

The good news first:
Yes there are jobs you can get that don't require a active RpH license. Jobs such as Managed Care and other insurance type white collar jobs do not always require a license.

I see it said regularly that managed care jobs don’t require a license. The vast majority do require a license. I don’t know of any common managed care positions that don’t because you need it to deny PAs, appeals, be on boards, etc for accreditation.
Maybe better luck in industry.

 

[watchfulwaiting1957]

I see it said regularly that managed care jobs don’t require a license. The vast majority do require a license. I don’t know of any common managed care positions that don’t because you need it to deny PAs, appeals, be on boards, etc for accreditation.
Maybe better luck in industry.

great information! I only say that it doesn't matter because I know that some of the managers in the Managed care Medicaid insurance company i worked at had let their licenses expire, sometimes for years. But you are right that you probably need a license to work your way up to a manager position where a pharmacist no longer needs an active state license. I also know the CEO of a hospital let his license expire years ago.