Are things really that bad?

[JDoc9]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

For starters, I completely understand that going into medicine for 'the money' would be going into the profession for the wrong reasons, but for now I am jut talking about the financial aspects/gains (or apparent lack thereof) of healthcare.

There seams to be a dark shadow above going into medicine right now with the uncertainty of Obama's PPACA at the moment. My question here is: Is it really that bad? When speaking in terms of financial gain, how many other things are really more of a sure deal than medicine? Finance? What are the chances of actually making it big as a partner? Law? What are the chances of even obtaining employment anymore? I've seen members on this forum write things like 'if you want money, go become an actor or professional athlete.' Really?

My question is, even if 'Obamacare' does bestow negative effects upon physician reimbursement, are the realistic outcomes really THAT bad?

I apologize if I am beating a dead horse in regards to this topic. I wish all of you the best of luck.

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[Kal EI]

Depends who you ask.

Just like some people like 100k a year is a lot and others think 300k a year isn't enough.

Some have 0$ debt, others have $400,000 in debt.

Some fields will earn 50% of what they did 5 years ago, others will earn the same or more.

Factors like these all determine "How bad" people think it is.

To combine them all: If you earn 50% of what your specialty did a few years ago, have $400k in debt, and trained 9 years all the while expecting to have a great income and now you earn 1/2 that. You may think it's bad.

 

[cbrons]

Pre allo

 

[tiedyeddog]

It's not that bad. It really isn't.

Post in preallo, btw.

 

[Frazier]

Could be better, could be worse.

 

[michaelrack]

There are no sure things anymore. Although declining physician income is somewhat of a problem, the bigger problem is the corporatization of medicine. It is becoming harder and harder to be in private practice- the trend is towards docs being employees of hospitals or other large organizations.

 

[J ROD]

It is all relative.

 

[fourhumours]

There are no sure things anymore. Although declining physician income is somewhat of a problem, the bigger problem is the corporatization of medicine. It is becoming harder and harder to be in private practice- the trend is towards docs being employees of hospitals or other large organizations.

^^^this. it will be very hard to have a private practice and most doctors who make bank are in private practice and make so much because of their small business. when doctors become employees salaries will decline as will the ceiling, but working hours and responsibilities will most likely also become better for doctors (don't have to worry about financials of a private practice, more co-workers to split hours with).

but yeah can't imagine as many people in my class will have a private practice as say ing my parents class 35 years ago

 

[Kahreek]

if you are ok with practicing medicine, i guess it cant be that bad.

 

[circulus vitios]

https://www.aamc.org/download/48732/data/compensation.pdf

Don't fool yourself into thinking you could make millions in law or finance. If you think a floor of ~$200k/year isn't enough, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[IJL]

https://www.aamc.org/download/48732/data/compensation.pdf

I knew I liked radiology....

 

[Anastomoses]

https://www.aamc.org/download/48732/data/compensation.pdf

Don't fool yourself into thinking you could make millions in law or finance. If you think a floor of ~$200k/year isn't enough, then I don't know what to tell you.

you love these threads when they complain about doctor salary

 

[514901]

If you're cool with making 1/3rd or 1/4th of what previous generations of physicians made, with significantly more qualifications and experience needed, more hours worked, higher insurance premiums and risk of litigation, and more time spent in residency, then sure, medicine is doing just fine.

But the reality is every other profession is doing just as poorly, but that still doesn't mean there is a bright future for current med students

 

[Law2Doc]

https://www.aamc.org/download/48732/data/compensation.pdf

Don't fool yourself into thinking you could make millions in law or finance. If you think a floor of ~$200k/year isn't enough, then I don't know what to tell you.

Averages and "floors" are very different things. A lot of people end up looking up at the average. Currently there are several fields (radiology, pathology, cardiology) where good jobs are becoming hard to find, and likely more specialties to follow. Given a long residency/fellowship the job market difficulties should really temper the analysis even if the average salary is still good. For instance is eg 3-7 years training after professional school for a 70% chance of earning $200k really better than 0 years of training for a 50% chance of earning $100k? Because thats what the analysis of medicine compared to non medical paths more or less is becoming.

Because there's a time value of money ($1 earned today is worth more than $ earned a year from now), you also need to heavily discount your ultimate salary for every year of training you do when making comparisons ( and that's ignoring any debt you may have). Ortho, radiology etc make good mony, but those are long residencies with fellowships usually at the end. This is why anyone with some financial wherewithall is going to tell you not to do medicine for the money. it's not the ultimate average salary that matters, it's the salary adjusted for the time, less the debt and interest involved.

Or you can remain blissfully ignorant of basic finance and just tell yourself $200k is mire than $100k...

 

[tiedyeddog]

Averages and "floors" are very different things. A lot of people end up looking up at the average. Currently there are several fields (radiology, pathology, cardiology) where good jobs are becoming hard to find, and likely more specialties to follow. Given a long residency/fellowship the job market difficulties should really temper the analysis even if the average salary is still good. For instance is eg 3-7 years training after professional school for a 70% chance of earning $200k really better than 0 years of training for a 50% chance of earning $100k? Because thats what the analysis of medicine compared to non medical paths more or less is becoming.

Because there's a time value of money ($1 earned today is worth more than $ earned a year from now), you also need to heavily discount your ultimate salary for every year of training you do when making comparisons ( and that's ignoring any debt you may have). Ortho, radiology etc make good mony, but those are long residencies with fellowships usually at the end. This is why anyone with some financial wherewithall is going to tell you not to do medicine for the money. it's not the ultimate average salary that matters, it's the salary adjusted for the time, less the debt and interest involved.

Or you can remain blissfully ignorant of basic finance and just tell yourself $200k is mire than $100k...

You have to admit, most people don't come straight out of college with a bachelors degree and earn 100k a year. I will agree totally that you still are earning money then and could be saving it, thus earning more money on that. Most people don't even earn 50k a year straight out of college...

You always need to factor job security into this equation. The security given by being a doctor is unparalleled to most jobs open to kids straight out of college. You are rather insulated from market meltdowns as a doctor while almost all other fields are not.

I am not saying medicine is a great field for every individual. If your dad is a bigwig at some large firm in New York and you thus have the connections to a 100k job right out of college, then yes, Medicine makes little financial sense. If you are like the other 90% of people who become medical students and don't have those same connections, then medicine makes great financial sense.

In my experience, the same doctors who complain about how ****ty compensation is are the same guys with a vacation house in the south, sending his kids to private school, who drives a year or two old Benz. It's the people who just need something to complain about....

 

[circulus vitios]

you love these threads when they complain about doctor salary

I'm driven by money, too, but I'm not so arrogant to believe that nearly a quarter million dollars a year isn't enough, or that I have the luck and talent to make more money in another field.

 

[deleted307836]

If you're cool with making 1/3rd or 1/4th of what previous generations of physicians made, with significantly more qualifications and experience needed, more hours worked, higher insurance premiums and risk of litigation, and more time spent in residency, then sure, medicine is doing just fine.

But the reality is every other profession is doing just as poorly, but that still doesn't mean there is a bright future for current med students

Without any kind of evidence to support your views, this seems very exaggerated. Making 25-33% of what previous generations made? Any fields in particular that you are referring to? Certainly not primary care.

 

[circulus vitios]

Averages and "floors" are very different things. A lot of people end up looking up at the average.

2010 MGMA data lists FM without OB salaries in 25th/50th/75th/90th percentiles: $151k/$183k/$233k/$297k. Mean $201k, standard deviation of $80k.

This is from a sample of 5524 FM without OB physicians across 612 practices.

 

[siliso]

Doctors have always worked hard and I haven't met a poor one yet. Only some who think they are...even though they're driving beamers and living in McMansions....or likely, because they are doing that. It's all, perspective. The median personal income for everyone is like 30K. For BA holders, 50something. If you think you can get a better deal in terms of job satisfaction and compensation doing something else, by all means do so. Don't stick around in medicine being butthurt and resentful. Medicine is pretty great if you like it and probably awful if you don't.