How much would you say that charisma comes into play? Are you taking somebody who may be awkward with a 265 10 publications or the class President type with a 250 5 publications?
This is categorically untrue, and while you might assume medical students are self-aware enough to prepare for interviews, every year (in-person or zoom) we see the occasional person or two who are unable to conceal their arrogance, weirdness, or disinterest for even a few minutes of conversation.
That’s tough to say. Both sound like strong applicants. I’d personally lean more toward the latter but I know a number of academics who prize publications over all else. The step scores are identical in my mind given how close they are.
Oh most definitely. I don’t think that’s a bad thing though. And they’d probably be right!
This is a bizarre comparison because a 250 and 5 papers are not really worse than a 265 and 10 papers
I’m guessing the academics will pay attention to publication quality right?
Oh most definitely. They love to get deep in the weeds on that stuff. I don’t really gaf. Just so long as they’ve gotten a few projects from A to Z, I think they have the potential to be productive in training.
I think there are definitely programs that would adjust rank lists based on second look attendance. That adjustment could be in either direction though!
Yea, I just think when you are in-person with people, you establish more of a deeper connection then behind a computer screen. Although somewhat different, look at job interviews. Most job applicants that are offered an interview all come qualified, but it is the sit-down interview that gets them hired.
Exactly...
For the ones I can think of, I know of two over the last few years that were fired by their programs that ultimately got stuck with them. A few others were very troubled residents at their programs but hadn’t been bad enough to fire yet.
Also agree with this in that aways can be a two-edged sword. For example, we recently had an away rotator who was late literally every day. This wouldn't have shown up on any interview or metric on their application, but this (along with other performance issues) did not help their cause.
Does this actually happen? Because I find it hard to believe MS4s on the interview trail are socially inept
That’s another reason why I don’t drink. Nice try PDs
Absolutely not. The purpose of in-person pre-interview meet and greets is for the applicants to get to meet the residents and get the vibe of the program - it's not a "trap" or "test" in any way. It's supposed to be a fun social gathering. No one's going to care if you drink one drink too many and share something embarrassing or whatever - this is a gathering of friends, and almost universally, the residents generally outdrink the applicants anyway. Besides, of the few people I've seen put their feet in their mouth during one of these, almost all were completely sober.
Absolutely. Think about it - in what situation could a socially-inept, sheltered young adult better thrive than medical school? A college student with zero social skills but a 4.0 GPA and a 95th percentile MCAT is still getting into medical school and probably at least surviving clinicals. It's certainly rare, but I see it every year. In addition to the example you quoted (which I personally witnessed), here are a few more:
How weird is it to not drink during these events? Should one order a drink anyway and pretend to drink it. I can imagine the people ranking would automatically assume that sober people are boring and what not.
You have to remember that residency interviews are job interviews, and for tons of medical students, they've never, ever had a job before.
I bet Mayo is in for some trouble!
Oh most definitely. It’s not intentional, but sometimes you do spot someone who clearly has a problem. And you sometimes discover someone’s inner douche. Most of the true weirdos let their weirdo flags fly even before they started drinking.
No, but if someone stands out above the rest of the applicants (for good or bad), the program leadership is very likely going to hear about it. We asked all our residents who attended pre-interview dinner and lunch about their impressions of the applicants. Most of the time it was 'oh, they're all fine', but every once and a while someone clicked really well, or made an awful impression.
Yes…YES…*evil laugh* the SHORTIES SHALL RISE!
Your point about not every program being right for every applicant is spot on and woefully under-discussed.
How does one identify the type of program best suited for them? How do you find out which are the fast-paced, high intensity residencies and which are the more laid back, slower-paced programs?
Yeah that’s a tough one. Hopefully the residents are pretty up front about things. If I were interviewing now, I’d make sure I really understood the call schedule in terms of frequency, type, and experience. I’d ask the typical number of consults per call, whether you also cover floor pages, daytime consult requirements, simultaneous clinic/OR duties, etc. I’d pay attention to how many residents were present for interview and social events - you can expect the call resident(s) to be absent, but if more are then that may mean they’re just exhausted and getting crushed.
Depends on the specialty, but this is why you talk to the current residents. We were very up front that we were more of a service-based residency, where you were on service a lot and carried a relatively large load of patients. The applicants asked a lot about patient caps and we didn't have them. For someone like me, who learns and retains information by seeing patients more than reading theory from a book, that was exactly what I needed. My med school's program was definitely lower volume and more of a book learning program. Asking about autonomy is also a good way to get at this--you're probably doing more if your attendings are comfortable letting you make decisions earlier in training.
Oh definitely, but this has been the case even with in person interviews. Strong home students and rotators definitely have an advantage. Thankfully for outside applicants, most students are not that strong and often the strongest home students want to go elsewhere for residency.
Those are the type of questions residents are expecting. You'll hear all about the program structure itself from the leadership, but the residents are there to tell you about the day-to-day life in the program.
This might be true at lower tier schools, but doesn't the converse apply at the higher tier programs (i.e., most students are "that strong," and they either want to stay or move on to another top program, thereby creating a game of musical chairs at the top programs and leaving relatively few spots for everyone else)?
Actually my experience has been that there’s little correlation with school rank and rotating student quality. There’s certainly some- the T10 students seemed ahead of the schools with no home program, but they were often indistinguishable from students from other lesser known schools with decent home programs. And by that I mean comfortably mediocre with a few rockstars sprinkled among them. And there were plenty of T10 rotators who earned themselves a blackball form being objectively terrible.
You are absolutely correct, as I have previously mentioned...In-person interviews offer so much more of an opportunity for someone to shine than behind a computer screen, where some feel very awkward. The argument being made is it is now in the interest of equity to keep the interviews virtual, however, I say it will do more harm to the same set of people it is trying to help. Sure, you may save money and travel time, but think what it would do for the person that may not have the big name school behind them or big test scores....they were able to get an interview and had it been in-person, may have really connected with those interviewing and as we all know, those connections can sometimes trump all what's on paper.
