Arizona Pain Doctor's Inspiring Message to Colleagues During COVID-19

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drusso

drusso

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Was he continuing to see patients during shutdown?
 
He actually went to NY and worked for part of it. Do I think that was fully out of the kindness of his heart? No. But he did do it.
 
I don’t fully get his deal. He took off for 4 years to travel the world and take pictures. Then made a big deal this fall about his triumphant return to clinical practice and was consulting for companies immediately on SCS (even though he clearly had not done any cases in years). Good marketer certainly, that Oral Roberts education has served that bunch well.
 
BobBarker said:
He actually went to NY and worked for part of it. Do I think that was fully out of the kindness of his heart? No. But he did do it.
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Why else would he expose himself to this deadly virus?
 
well he did his residency in anesthesia at NYU
 
mazinger said:
Why else would he expose himself to this deadly virus?
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Optics and marketing. He is an expert on opioids even lecturing to the DEA, telemedicine, covid 19, SCS, etc despite not doing any clinical work to speak of in years. He wasn’t that concerned with Covid when he was vacationing in March. I got invited to the Nevro webinar he did on scs and telemedicine he recently did, and my response to the rep was, “why?” Anyone on this forum has more experience with both than he does.

I don’t think he is a bad guy, it just all makes sense from a televangelist perspective/ORU which I am familiar with from living in Tulsa in the past.
 
Green Grass said:
The dude went to NYC and worked in the middle of this **** for 2 weeks. And y'all want to criticize him for it?
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Does anyone know what kind of message it sent to go "volunteer" when hospitals were REQUIRING MD/DO's to work for free on one hand, but paying $10K per week to PA's, NP's, and ICU RN's on the other?
 
I know Dr Lynch and think he is a very talented and smart physician and businessman. He’s a mentor of mine of sorts and many, but not all, of my practice endeavors have mirrored his own when he was starting. That being said I tend to agree with Bob Barker. He’s not been in clinical practice in years, made a bunch of money and got out for a while, but immediately on return is lecturing at NANS purely based on politics and influence. This is one of a few reasons I’ve decided to no longer participate in teaching or speaking for any company. Previously I had agreed to speak to fellows about transitioning to practice, the business of medicine, and how to navigate the job market. I thought I could make a difference in that regard without being paid to “sell a product”. I am discouraged now about my ability to have any influence in the specialty of pain medicine and have decided to simply do my thing in my small corner of the world.

As for “volunteering to work in the face of this deadly virus”... I for one have never been fearful of the virus killing me or any family members, have never really seen it that way. I know some have, several on this forum specifically have, but not me. Many of my physicians friends have felt the same. Maybe you’re feeling in the matter is all about what part of the country you’re in?
 
gdub25 said:
I know Dr Lynch and think he is a very talented and smart physician and businessman. He’s a mentor of mine of sorts and many, but not all, of my practice endeavors have mirrored his own when he was starting. That being said I tend to agree with Bob Barker. He’s not been in clinical practice in years, made a bunch of money and got out for a while, but immediately on return is lecturing at NANS purely based on politics and influence. This is one of a few reasons I’ve decided to no longer participate in teaching or speaking for any company. Previously I had agreed to speak to fellows about transitioning to practice, the business of medicine, and how to navigate the job market. I thought I could make a difference in that regard without being paid to “sell a product”. I am discouraged now about my ability to have any influence in the specialty of pain medicine and have decided to simply do my thing in my small corner of the world.

As for “volunteering to work in the face of this deadly virus”... I for one have never been fearful of the virus killing me or any family members, have never really seen it that way. I know some have, several on this forum specifically have, but not me. Many of my physicians friends have felt the same. Maybe you’re feeling in the matter is all about what part of the country you’re in?
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "politics and influence?" The only reason I ask is that some people have lamented that this forum spends too much time discussing the politics and the political dimensions of this specialty? Do you think it's even possible that politics trumps evidence?
 
no matter what you think his motives are, he did it. he risked his life going to NYC. probably the worst place in the world hit by covid19.

you guys want to question his motives. who cares?

maybe it's ego, hero complex or he just wants to be a good guy and set an example for his YOUNG children.

He's stinkin' filthy rich. crazy money that most of us peasants will never see. these guys helped start the trend for mega pain practices selling to VC money, round 1, round 2, etc

He doesn't need clinical medicine. he definitely doesn't need the money. but he came back. is he smart enough to learn about new wave forms and DRG well-enough to talk about it intelligently? without a doubt. just cuz he didn't pick up a tuohy and put in some stim leads in a few years doesn't mean he couldn't have set up dozens since his return to medicine. and fwiw, he was big on the lecture circuit not too long ago. even without being in clinical medicine i could see him keeping abreast of the literature and maybe having continued consulting the whole time for the stim companies.
 
i absolutely hate all the god stuff. there was probably some ulterior motives. but who cares? the guy did a mitzvah. he should be credited.
 
drusso said:
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "politics and influence?" The only reason I ask is that some people have lamented that this forum spends too much time discussing the politics and the political dimensions of this specialty? Do you think it's even possible that politics trumps evidence?
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I for one will pardon your pun....
 
pmrmd said:
Selling out to private equity firms shouldn’t be celebrated unless you feel lowering the standard of care to the PA office visit and quickly-stick-everything model is good for Pain Medicine.
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I wasn’t celebrating that. Just pointing out that money is a non motivating factor for him. The last place any of you would volunteer to go is a war zone. Otherwise you’d all have enlisted. Selling to VC is just business. Many small practices these days will be worthless when they go to close up shop. These guys bucked that trend and grew large enough to be worth acquiring. It’s not just pain medicine. It’s every field.

Do I think PA office visits and stick everything is good medicine? Of course not.
 
drusso said:
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "politics and influence?" The only reason I ask is that some people have lamented that this forum spends too much time discussing the politics and the political dimensions of this specialty? Do you think it's even possible that politics trumps evidence?
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By influence and politics I mean the defect that as soon as he started getting back into practicing every stim company on the market wanted him to speak for them. He’s a well known guy with a lot of influence over other doctors. He speaks for Nevro so I personally believe he’s doing the right thing in terms of talking about good evidence based medicine so no problems there from my perspective. I would feel differently had he been talking about a different therapy with a less than 40% success rate in a level 1 peer reviewed study. I am just tired of the stim marketing game in which foolish physicians are sold on products by clever marketing by The entire “What’s your favorite stimulator” thread is a perfect example. Evidence is there for all of us to look at but we still have our “favorite” and the reasons listed are better reps, my patients are older than most, mine are poor, mine experience didn’t match the studies...etc.
 
SSdoc33 said:
i absolutely hate all the god stuff. there was probably some ulterior motives. but who cares? the guy did a mitzvah. he should be credited.
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He volunteered to work for free, but I feel sorry for the doctors who were COMPELLED to work for free (often without assurances of PPE or workplace safety) despite their objections otherwise. Maybe he should have stood alongside his colleagues who made a principled objection against conscription.
 
He is also in a position where he can work for free. I would guess most physicians are not. Not all of us are loaded, many have kids to worry about providing for, parents, and practices to try and keep open. People with tons of money who do things and then tell everyone “hey look at what I did” always rub me wrong.
 
oreosandsake said:
He's stinkin' filthy rich. crazy money that most of us peasants will never see. these guys helped start the trend for mega pain practices selling to VC money, round 1, round 2, etc
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Can you expand on this. What is the model one follows to make this happen? Is it narcs to feed in house labs in exchange for out of network private ASC facility fees type thing employing 30+ midlevels to feed a few pain docs doing injections?

I honestly have no idea how one turns a pain clinic into something venture capitalists have any interest in at all. Why would they? How do they profit? What do they pay for such aquisitions? What is the model to make this happen?
 
Ligament said:
Can you expand on this. What is the model one follows to make this happen? Is it narcs to feed in house labs in exchange for out of network private ASC facility fees type thing employing 30+ midlevels to feed a few pain docs doing injections?

I honestly have no idea how one turns a pain clinic into something venture capitalists have any interest in at all. Why would they? How do they profit? What do they pay for such aquisitions? What is the model to make this happen?
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think you have answered your own questions
 
Ligament said:
Can you expand on this. What is the model one follows to make this happen? Is it narcs to feed in house labs in exchange for out of network private ASC facility fees type thing employing 30+ midlevels to feed a few pain docs doing injections?

I honestly have no idea how one turns a pain clinic into something venture capitalists have any interest in at all. Why would they? How do they profit? What do they pay for such aquisitions? What is the model to make this happen?
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Yes chronic narcotic med refill appointments every month . Monthly uds, other ancillaries. All fu by PAs. Docs doing procedures 4 days a week.
Typically at least 3 docs and 5 pa's. Multiple locations . The pa's see at least 20 med fu a day each of them. And they feed the docs procedures
 
Ligament said:
Can you expand on this. What is the model one follows to make this happen? Is it narcs to feed in house labs in exchange for out of network private ASC facility fees type thing employing 30+ midlevels to feed a few pain docs doing injections?

I honestly have no idea how one turns a pain clinic into something venture capitalists have any interest in at all. Why would they? How do they profit? What do they pay for such aquisitions? What is the model to make this happen?
Click to expand...

Wondering about this too. Is there also some SOS arbitrage or is it purely a volume play? If I had to abandon my pain practice to go work for free in NYC who would take of my patients, handle the PPP applications, etc?
 
drusso said:
Wondering about this too. Is there also some SOS arbitrage or is it purely a volume play? If I had to abandon my pain practice to go work for free in NYC who would take of my patients, handle the PPP applications, etc?
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SOS works if you own your own hospital. Probably just an OON ASC.
 
Ligament said:
Can you expand on this. What is the model one follows to make this happen? Is it narcs to feed in house labs in exchange for out of network private ASC facility fees type thing employing 30+ midlevels to feed a few pain docs doing injections?

I honestly have no idea how one turns a pain clinic into something venture capitalists have any interest in at all. Why would they? How do they profit? What do they pay for such aquisitions? What is the model to make this happen?
Click to expand...
I've seen a practice sold with the "pills for procs" setup. There need to be a lot other modalities to make it look like healthcare and ideally, the owner can donate to charities, and be active in the community. The brand is the shield.

I guess there's more risk nowadays with the crackdown on opioids but mostly we're just seeing outrageous practices being shut down.
 
Since he did his anesthesia residency at NYU I can understand his desire to return and help. I wouldn’t go to NYC for free, but my home program in another state was on the verge of building an emergency hospital and I was considering volunteering there if things got really bad. It’s like taking care of family.
 
Ligament said:
Can you expand on this. What is the model one follows to make this happen? Is it narcs to feed in house labs in exchange for out of network private ASC facility fees type thing employing 30+ midlevels to feed a few pain docs doing injections?

I honestly have no idea how one turns a pain clinic into something venture capitalists have any interest in at all. Why would they? How do they profit? What do they pay for such aquisitions? What is the model to make this happen?
Click to expand...


Your little pain practice evolves over 20 years to where you have dozen+ MD/DOs, 30 mid-levels, pills for shots, your own pharmacy, in house lab with monthly UDS for majority of patients, own multiple ASCs where you have pain docs heavily implanting SCS, employed in house Neurosurgeons and Ortho surgeons at your ASC. This is the setup of my group. VC guys looking to purchase not to long ago for 50-60 million...
 
jsaul said:
Yes chronic narcotic med refill appointments every month . Monthly uds, other ancillaries. All fu by PAs. Docs doing procedures 4 days a week.
Typically at least 3 docs and 5 pa's. Multiple locations . The pa's see at least 20 med fu a day each of them. And they feed the docs procedures
Click to expand...
I remember him telling us at a St. Jude course during fellowship that he and 4 midlevels see 80 clinic patients in an afternoon.
 
Kudos to anyone who risks their life to help someone else in need. I don’t have enough life insurance or guts to be able to do that. That said, I have to wonder if the truly brave and unselfish among us who do something like this just do it and remain silent about it rather than use social media to give everyone the blow-by-blow. Not a criticism but rather something that I wonder about...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BobBarker said:
Optics and marketing. He is an expert on opioids even lecturing to the DEA, telemedicine, covid 19, SCS, etc despite not doing any clinical work to speak of in years. He wasn’t that concerned with Covid when he was vacationing in March. I got invited to the Nevro webinar he did on scs and telemedicine he recently did, and my response to the rep was, “why?” Anyone on this forum has more experience with both than he does.

I don’t think he is a bad guy, it just all makes sense from a televangelist perspective/ORU which I am familiar with from living in Tulsa in the past.
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What’s the scoop on ORU? I’ve noticed a disproportionate number of ORU grads who are tremendously successful in the business of medicine including making $$$ as device KOLs. Is it a training ground for televangelmedicine?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NJPAIN said:
What’s the scoop on ORU? I’ve noticed a disproportionate number of ORU grads who are tremendously successful in the business of medicine including making $$$ as device KOLs. Is it a training ground for televangelmedicine?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Yes.
 
If you spend your formative years listening to charismatic preachers use their charm to extract money from old people, it probably sets you up to be a successful pain doctor. Intersect that with the prosperity doctrine, where since they believe they expect and deserve to be financially blessed and there you have it.
 
Ducttape said:
in an afternoon... asking midlevel to see 4 patients per hour...
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Yes. Efficient midlevels can see uncomplicated follow ups in 15 minutes. Usually, it’s other inefficiencies in clinic flow that prevent this from happening consistently. Like I said, this is Lynch’s claim, not mine.
 
Disciple said:
Ok. I see your point. And Bob Barker's.

Are those Instagram posts?
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Though I applaud his efforts for helping those NY patients out and contracting COVID in the process, he didn’t miss a beat on promoting it on his IG feed every step of the way.
 
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