Arizona State to open new MD-engineering school

[Darrow O'Lykos]

ASU set to open new medical school

Looks like they’ll be partnering with Mayo and Maricopa Health.

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[chilly_md]

So they will be adding another one in an area that has Mayo, University of Arizona, and Creighton along with 2 DO schools in AZCOM and AT SOMA. That's a bit bold.

 

[Goro]

So they will be adding another one in an area that has Mayo, University of Arizona, and Creighton along with 2 DO schools in AZCOM and AT SOMA. That's a bit bold.

And U AZ has TWO med schools!

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

And U AZ has TWO med schools!

I wonder how much of this is seller's remorse by ASU backing out from the UA-Phoenix partnership 15 years ago. They also attained AAU status this week, which leads me to think this is reflective of the university's overall overhaul in academic prestige. I have no connection to AZ, but anecdotally it seems like ASU has dramatically improved their reputation and prestige over the last 10 years or so.

So they will be adding another one in an area that has Mayo, University of Arizona, and Creighton along with 2 DO schools in AZCOM and AT SOMA. That's a bit bold.

Phoenix MSA has 4.7 million people and is about to have a 6th medical school. For comparison, the Dallas-Fort Worth MSA has nearly twice that many and only has 3 medical schools.

I get that Phoenix is seeing tons of growth, but I agree, it seems a bit bold.

 

[deleted1139416]

So they will be adding another one in an area that has Mayo, University of Arizona, and Creighton along with 2 DO schools in AZCOM and AT SOMA. That's a bit bold.

Well, Phoenix is one of the Top 5 largest cities in the US, and all of the other large cities (LA, NY, Chicago, Philly) have a million medical schools as well.

 

[chilly_md]

Well, Phoenix is one of the Top 5 largest cities in the US, and all of the other large cities (LA, NY, Chicago, Philly) have a million medical schools as well.

I did not know that it had grown to that much, but it does lag behind the other 4 quite a bit.

2020 census:
NYC - 8.8 million
LA - 3.9 million
Chicago - 2.7 million
Houston - 2.3 million
Phoenix - 1.6 million

It does come ahead of Philly, but Philadelphia also is in close proximity to other major cities and the state of PA itself has almost double the population of AZ.

The comparison to the DFW MSA is also pretty telling if we want to include the surrounding areas (especially since some of the schools are there and not right in Phoenix itself).

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

I did not know that it had grown to that much, but it does lag behind the other 4 quite a bit.

2020 census:
NYC - 8.8 million
LA - 3.9 million
Chicago - 2.7 million
Houston - 2.3 million
Phoenix - 1.6 million

It does come ahead of Philly, but Philadelphia also is in close proximity to other major cities and the state of PA itself has almost double the population of AZ.

The comparison to the DFW MSA is also pretty telling if we want to include the surrounding areas (especially since some of the schools are there and not right in Phoenix itself).

And if you look at metro areas, there's even more disparity. The "LA Basin" including the almost unbroken urban/suburban sprawl from Ventura County to Orange County including the Riverside / Inland Empire areas has something like 18 million people. It has the 3rd largest "metro area" GDP in the world, trailing only Tokyo and NYC. I haven't counted the LA Basin medical schools but Phoenix "metro" has many more per capita.

 

[MDMechEngr]

MD Engineer. Noicee!

 

[Kuratz]

Eh I don’t think it’s overkill. Keep in mind all of the Phoenix MD campuses have smaller class sizes:
UA- Phoenix (70)
-Creighton (60)
-Mayo (40)

And then the DO schools have 100 and 250 respectively (the proliferation of massive DO schools being another discussion entirely).

So currently there are approximately 520 graduates per year in a metro of 5 million = 1 graduate per 9600 population.

Contrast to Denver which graduates 200 from CU and 160 from Rocky Vista respectively in a metro of 3 million = 1 graduate per 8500 population.

In Boston (the closest metro in population to Phoenix):
-HMS 175
-Tufts 180
-BU 150
-UMass 175
Total = 680 = 1 grad per 7400 population.

Granted I understand these aren’t apples to apples but Phoenix currently doesn’t have great healthcare and also has a very large older population. ASU is not like some random osteopathic school with uncertain credibility that will have 250 person class sizes. For all of the questionable medical school openings around the country, this is one of the least egregious, by far.

 

[Cognovi]

I think that statistic, graduate per population. How about San Francisco, Dallas, Pittsburgh?

 

[Dantes]

Honestly with the resources ASU has, I can see this one being stronger than Creighton and the DO institutions off the bat. Not that we need more med schools, but I'd rather have an MD school like this pop up than what we're seeing elsewhere.

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Eh I don’t think it’s overkill. Keep in mind all of the Phoenix MD campuses have smaller class sizes:
UA- Phoenix (70)
-Creighton (60)
-Mayo (40)

And then the DO schools have 100 and 250 respectively (the proliferation of massive DO schools being another discussion entirely).

I admittedly didn't realize those class sizes were that small (the DO schools not withstanding obviously, that's no surprise at all). That's a really good point and does make ASU's entry a little more sensible.

ASU is not like some random osteopathic school with uncertain credibility that will have 250 person class sizes. For all of the questionable medical school openings around the country, this is one of the least egregious, by far.

Honestly with the resources ASU has, I can see this one being stronger than Creighton and the DO institutions off the bat. Not that we need more med schools, but I'd rather have an MD school like this pop up than what we're seeing elsewhere.

Yeah, I think it's likely going to pay dividends for ASU and I agree that they are going to be well-positioned in the region, immediately ahead of Creighton and the DO schools.

I'm curious to see how many new GME spots this initiative will open in the region.

 

[chilly_md]

Eh I don’t think it’s overkill. Keep in mind all of the Phoenix MD campuses have smaller class sizes:
UA- Phoenix (70)
-Creighton (60)
-Mayo (40)

UA Phoenix is at 120 and Creighton is at 100 now. Though, if ASU is going to have an engineering focused school like Carle, it likely will be a rather small class size. That will make it easier to manage.

 

[Slack3r]

Philly, in comparison to Phoenix as a city with similar population size, has Jefferson, Temple, Drexel, Penn, PCOM, and then Cooper right across the river in southern NJ.

Main problem with Phoenix is the lack of academic teaching hospitals. There are a few “communiversity” programs at Banner and Dignity, and even Mayo is pretty lackluster compared to the main campus in Rochester.

 

[Slack3r]

And U AZ has TWO med schools!

The second med school is 2 hours south in Tucson (metro area of approx 1 million) and has the entire southern half of AZ as their catchment area. There is no overlap between the two.

 

[Goro]

The second med school is 2 hours south in Tucson (metro area of approx 1 million) and has the entire southern half of AZ as their catchment area. There is no overlap between the two.

I get that. It's like the SUNY, IU or UC systems. All individual schools within the same family.