As a premed student would you pay to shadow a doctor?

[JGNYC]

As a premed student would you pay to shadow a doctor?

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[workaholic181]

no

 

[Isoval]

A few people from my undergrad tried to do this.

From what I understand, they crashed and burned in a heaping mess.

EDIT:
I wanted to add that they didn't necessarily crash and burn because nobody was willing to pay. They crashed and burned because they were laughed out of every hospital and clinic they tried to get on board.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

In all honesty, yes. I will do my best to explain my reasoning lol. In my hometown I made a lot of connections and could basically shadow any/most Physicians. THEN I moved to a larger city and realized a lot of Physicians don't allow shadowing because a) Their policies don't allow students b) They don't know you... So I would pay a small fee, because I would love to shadow certain Physicians (PM&R, Pediatricians, etc..). How much would I be willing to pay? MAYBE $10-20 because I can always network with Physicians and ask them to refer me to a local colleague. Like @Isoval said, if you are looking to turn this into a side business, I don't know how it would go.

 

[BombsAway]

People will pay for just about anything these days if it means less perceived effort. I'm sure you could pull off an Uber for shadowing if you really wanted to.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Even if people would pay, this wouldn't work because what's in it for the doctors/facilities? A "cut" which is not substantial?

 

[PreMedMissteps]

No

 

[infectiousdisease101]

No and I would not even do a shadowing program even if it was free for so many reasons.
1. Some schools have shadowing programs at their affiliated hospitals for undergraduates. However, anyone can apply and get into a program. It is when you do it outside the box that you have something worthwhile that would make you stand out for if and when you are asked "What are you accomplishments?"
2. If physicians have had countless students shadowing them through a shadowing program, a student who takes initiative and contacts them directly and asks to shadow independently would stand out more. That translates to stronger recommendation letter.
3. Less competition. Not many people take the initiative to do it this way.
4. Flexiblity. Shadowing programs require students to adhere to certain hours and such. By doing it on your own, you are doing it on your own time whenever it best suits you.

I shadowed 3 physicians all within a 3-4 month period. One of whom agreed to be my letter writer when the time comes. By doing it on my own instead of adhering to a program, I got shadowing checked off my to-do list.

Also if this third party can find physicians willing to take shadows, why can't you?

 

[plshelpvanxious]

I would consider it only after trying to have success shadowing for free. A program I'm in requires shadowing, and getting doctors to respond can be difficult

 

[infectiousdisease101]

Shadowing is like of like a job application. You can't contact one or two. I contacted like 20. You get what you put into it. Don't be the type that expects handouts by doing what other people are doing.

 

[Lannister]

No. Paid shadowing programs are not seen in a positive light at my school, participating in one would definitely hurt more than it would help.

 

[gyngyn]

No.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

No. Paid shadowing programs are not seen in a positive light at my school, participating in one would definitely hurt more than it would help.

I agree with your school. Paying for it gives me the impression they expect shortcuts and handouts rather than work, sweat, and get their hands dirty to get where they want.

 

[HuskyMD Emeritus]

Most attendings teach and let premed students shadow them because they 1) enjoy it, 2) want to be a positive role model for the next generation of doctors, 3) like to share knowledge and in teaching, become a learner as well.

 

[longhaul3]

No and I would not even do a shadowing program even if it was free for so many reasons.
1. Some schools have shadowing programs at their affiliated hospitals for undergraduates. However, anyone can apply and get into a program. It is when you do it outside the box that you have something worthwhile that would make you stand out for if and when you are asked "What are you accomplishments?"
2. If physicians have had countless students shadowing them through a shadowing program, a student who takes initiative and contacts them directly and asks to shadow independently would stand out more. That translates to stronger recommendation letter.

It's not exactly an accomplishment to shadow a doctor. And I hate to break it to you but a recommendation from a doctor you shadow isn't worth much at least in MD admissions.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

It's not exactly an accomplishment to shadow a doctor. And I hate to break it to you but a recommendation from a doctor you shadow isn't worth much at least in MD admissions.

My school does committee letters and requires a rec letter from a physician, so for me it is something important to get done.

Regarding the accomplishment, finding a physician to shadow without connections or programs may not be worth of a mention in itself, it does show you think outside the box.

 

[deleted480308]

I don’t think a service (I’m assuming you are brainstorming starting one) could find enough doctors willing to let you charge premeds

 

[longhaul3]

My school does committee letters and requires a rec letter from a physician, so for me it is something important to get done.

Regarding the accomplishment, finding a physician to shadow without connections or programs may not be worth of a mention in itself, it does show you think outside the box.

Very interesting about the committee letter. I stand corrected.

Still not buying the other angle. No reason to deny yourself a resource that you have access to just to go out of your way. I think that shows poor judgment just as much as it shows initiative, although it's so unremarkable that it doesn't speak much to one or the other.

 

[ODea]

No.

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

I wouldn't agree to be paid to "shadow" a doctor. Of all the things you could do to gain some medically related experience, this is perhaps the worst way to do it.

There are plenty of other things you could do to get that letter. For instance, working in a research lab got me a decent paying job, several publications, and excellent LORs. My father works in a hospital where there are regularly undergrads and high school students sent in to "shadow" him and his colleagues, and he says that is one of the most awkward, useless activities he has seen in his life.

 

[Piglet2020]

In my area, doctors are not receptive to shadowing either. I didn't have personal connections with docs other than my old pediatrician.

Anyways, back when I was shadowing, I spent almost a month trying to find someone to shadow. I looked up the directory for every docs in my area, emailed, called (got stuck at reception a lot), and went to visit many in person. I left my resume and a note.

It's best to show your own effort because effort = better experiences in the long run. Just my $0.02.

But if you have the $$$ and connections, it's up to you. If you had neither like me, a little (or a lot) of effort goes a long way!

 

[MareNostrummm]

2. If physicians have had countless students shadowing them through a shadowing program, a student who takes initiative and contacts them directly and asks to shadow independently would stand out more. That translates to stronger recommendation letter.
I shadowed 3 physicians all within a 3-4 month period. One of whom agreed to be my letter writer when the time comes. By doing it on my own instead of adhering to a program, I got shadowing checked off my to-do list.

I'm not sure how strong of a letter you can get from shadowing lol. Unless its a requirement like for most DO schools.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

I'm not sure how strong of a letter you can get from shadowing lol. Unless its a requirement like for most DO schools.

Ask good questions, learn to read charts and make a diagnosis from that data. Just like how you get a strong letter from participating in lecture. I didn't think I had to spell it out for someone who's applying.

 

[Kingsmen2018]

The doctor wipes his taint with the 200$ you are willing to offer him

 

[BombsAway]

Ask good questions, learn to read charts and make a diagnosis from that data. Just like how you get a strong letter from participating in lecture.

"I spent 6 hours with little timmy while he shadowed at my practice. During that time, he asked me several relevant questions, and even attempted to make a diagnosis without any medical training (#initiative). I find his ability to maintain a pulse (his own) to be the foundation upon which a future physician should build their career and I grant him my most dispassionate recommendation for medical school"

 

[infectiousdisease101]

Is that what he really wrote? :O

PS erase your name

 

[Cigar]

You probably don’t want to shadow the kind of doctor who would ask you to pay for shadowing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[infectiousdisease101]

I got to see my letter as well. Here are some key points:
* Made a diagnosis followed by a flawless explanation
* Residents had a hard time believing I was only an undergrad.
* I attended seminars/lectures where other physicians of the same department talk about notable cases and physicians that lectured all say I ask really good questions.
* I was the only non-staff to be invited to a retirement party for said department because I stood out so well while shadowing.

That's only a few key points. There are a lot more and I can tell you the letter is glowing. I was even told by an admin staff the physicians spoke highly of me that's why I asked her.

Although, to be fair, I shadowed this one physician for almost 100 hours. The school I attend requires a set amount of shadowing hours in addition to a letter from a physician. I decided to get all those hours under one physician because it would strengthen my letter.

In addition, the attending I shadowed had a charisma about them that makes you feel they want to help you anyway they can.

So either I lucked out, know how to stand out, or I know how to tell which physician would be willing to put out the effort on writing me a letter.

TBH, if I didn't click with any of the physicians I shadowed or felt like they would not put in an effort to write me a good letter, I would have kept looking.

 

[Tenk]

The doctor wipes his taint with the 200$ you are willing to offer him

Hey man. I've pulled money out of some REALLY nasty body orifices. No way in hell any money is going anywhere near my taint.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Most attendings teach and let premed students shadow them because they 1) enjoy it, 2) want to be a positive role model for the next generation of doctors, 3) like to share knowledge and in teaching, become a learner as well.

Can you tell me where I can find these attendings? Cause I'm pulling teeth trying to find someone to even have existing medical students shadow them. They see it as a blow to productivity and they want something in return (RVUs, faculty appointment etc). Very few teach for the sake of teaching anymore--it's sad.


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[HuskyMD Emeritus]

Can you tell me where I can find these attendings? Cause I'm pulling teeth trying to find someone to even have existing medical students shadow them. They see it as a blow to productivity and they want something in return (RVUs, faculty appointment etc). Very few teach for the sake of teaching anymore--it's sad.


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Somewhere in SCal. OK, maybe I am exaggerating, but most of my colleagues do enjoy teaching, my entire department received the residents' excellent teaching award one year and the ICU rotation remain one of their favorite rotations since the residency program started.
As to shadowing at the medical center where I work: It seemed everyone's son, daughter, niece, nephew and their neighbors kids wanted to shadow, so the administration put a stop to it.... It was fun while it lasted.

 

[Catalystik]

As a premed student would you pay to shadow a doctor? You obviously won't pay the doctor. This would be a third party service that placed you in a doctor's office (specialty of choice) for x amount of days for a fee. Just a survey question, please answer honestly. Thank you!

No.

 

[Turkishking]

As a premed student would you pay to shadow a doctor? You obviously won't pay the doctor. This would be a third party service that placed you in a doctor's office (specialty of choice) for x amount of days for a fee. Just a survey question, please answer honestly. Thank you!

No

 

[Planes2Doc]

It depends on what the ultimate goal is. Pre-meds need to remember that you can't ride on a physician's success for getting into medical school.

For example, let's put it this way... Pretend you're walking down the street and you see a Lamborghini Aventador sitting there. You take a picture with your cell phone, and upload the photo on Facebook. You will get plenty of likes. But do you actually have anything to be proud of? Unless you're an amateur photographer and trying to work on being artistic, not really. No one is denying that it's a cool car, but it's not YOUR car. You did not put forth the effort and sacrifices, whether time or money, to purchase the car. Therefore, unless you are a photographer with a Canon EOS 1DX Mark II attached to a Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS USM II trying to be artistic, you have nothing to be proud of.

The same principal applies for shadowing. It doesn't matter whether the doctor you shadow is a local guy down the street or a well-known doctor like Ben Carson. ADCOMs will only care about YOUR accomplishments, and not that of the physician you're shadowing. Don't forget that shadowing is a non-selective process. If a local doctor is willing to have college students shadow, it's highly unlikely that they would differentiate between a 4.0-GPA quantum physics major that's an Olympic athlete versus a starry-eyed 2.6-GPA basket-weaving major that will never stand a chance for getting into medical school. You can not ride someone else's success into medical school.

Now with that said, I would like to think of the experience similar to volunteering (assuming you would not have done it in the first place). Volunteering allows you to check the boxes with a minimal once weekly commitment that will have only a minor impact on your grades and MCAT as long as it's not at an awkward time or distant location. Therefore, you are pretty much paying a "premium" by not actually taking a wage with volunteering for the convenience. Therefore, if there was a physician that was very close by, had the most convenient available hours, and let you write your own LOR (DO letter comes to mind) versus someone that works very far away and has an awkward schedule that would conflict with school and not allow you to write your own letter, I wouldn't actually mind paying for the former, all ethics aside of course.

Personally, I would prefer to let students shadow me for free, and would hope most physicians would do the same. But I wanted to put this line of thought out there for argument's sake.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

(To be fair I didn't read this whole thread)

Cleveland clinic has a program where you can basically buy a summer worth of shadowing (~300 hrs) for around $3000. You get a long white coat and you "rotate" with different services each week.

I would hate myself for doing something like that, but every year that I worked there the program was filled to capacity

 

[infectiousdisease101]

(To be fair I didn't read this whole thread)

Cleveland clinic has a program where you can basically buy a summer worth of shadowing (~300 hrs) for around $3000. You get a long white coat and you "rotate" with different services each week.

I would hate myself for doing something like that, but every year that I worked there the program was filled to capacity

Talk about desperate. The people who shadowed I mean.

 

[Planes2Doc]

(To be fair I didn't read this whole thread)

Cleveland clinic has a program where you can basically buy a summer worth of shadowing (~300 hrs) for around $3000. You get a long white coat and you "rotate" with different services each week.

I would hate myself for doing something like that, but every year that I worked there the program was filled to capacity

They probably think the name will actually mean something. But at the end of the day, these pre-meds aren't carefully selected physicians at the Cleveland Clinic, and thus no one will give a crap.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

When you expect handouts, you take what you get. When you're a go getter, you won't stop working until you're satisfied. As I said, if I didn't feel like the physicians didn't know me well to write me a good letter, I would have kept shadowing until I found someone. I judge letter writers two things. One tells me if they can write me a strong letter. The other tells me if they will put the effort to write me a strong letter. So using these two rules: I can judge if they can and will write me a strong letter. Of course, this is theoretical and not all letter writers let you view their letters.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

"I spent 6 hours with little timmy while he shadowed at my practice. During that time, he asked me several relevant questions, and even attempted to make a diagnosis without any medical training (#initiative). I find his ability to maintain a pulse (his own) to be the foundation upon which a future physician should build their career and I grant him my most dispassionate recommendation for medical school"

Did you really only shadow for 6 hours?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Cleveland clinic has a program where you can basically buy a summer worth of shadowing (~300 hrs) for around $3000. You get a long white coat and you "rotate" with different services each week.

Wow. I feel shame just from reading about this....

Shadowing is a joke.