ASA conference Thread

[Justin4563]

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Its sad that you are so digruntled.
You are presenting a "grass is always greener" philosophy in your post. 2 parts of it bothered me:

1)Half of my problems as chief of our department involve troubleshooting CRNA issues with each other. I can assure you they are no different than any other group of people. They in-fight over the schedule, not cleaning up after themselves, etc.

2)Doctors are not out to "screw" each other. I'm sure there are times/individuals that this happens, but your depiction is very skewed. My partners and I cover for each other, etc. We strive for a friendly workplace. We are not disgruntled.

i get along with my colleagues as well very well ... But think about residency and medical school the way the process was and how cut throat it was and how demeaning some people made you feel and how much harder and difficult the process was for no reason at all...

your problems with the crna issues are "pish" compared to what physicians do to each otehr.. such as keeping other good people off medical staff to cut out the competition etc..

 

[Justin4563]

JD,

Are you saying we don't need to have a board certification process?

I have worked with and gotten to know close to 100 anesthesiologists in the various places that I have practiced.....and let me tell you, there IS a difference between those who were invited to join the club and those who have been rejected.

I think I said that before.

You are a snob.. No question about it.. SO you mean to say those who arent board certified are poor physicians....or should not be practicing

 

[Justin4563]

JD,

Are you saying we don't need to have a board certification process?

I have worked with and gotten to know close to 100 anesthesiologists in the various places that I have practiced.....and let me tell you, there IS a difference between those who were invited to join the club and those who have been rejected.

I think I said that before.

and what club are you talking about.. are you talking about the club where no foreigners are allowed to join

 

[militarymd]

and what club are you talking about.. are you talking about the club where no foreigners are allowed to join

The BC club where people who work at it gets to join....including foreigners like me. 🙂

 

[Justin4563]

The BC club where people who work at it gets to join....including foreigners like me. 🙂

I didnt know there was a club... Im board certified.. where do i join... am i allowed to join

 

[militarymd]

You are a snob.. No question about it.. SO you mean to say those who arent board certified are poor physicians....or should not be practicing

My, my....we down to name calling now 🙁

Those who are not board certified are folks who don't have the work ethic or work habit that gets you through the certification process....those same work ethic and habits make you a better physician.

 

[militarymd]

such as keeping other good people off medical staff to cut out the competition etc..

Your unhappiness essentially boils down to this statement. The doctors aren't keeping you off the medical staff. The hospital is....the hospital AND surgeons, who bring patients to the hospital, allow the "exclusive contracts". The hospital and surgeons want "groups" to provide services....not cowboys who ride into and out of town at their convenience.

If you're telling me that the hospitals don't want this arrangement, then why do they offer such contracts....why do they look for such contracts.

Your beef is with the wrong group of people.

 

[Justin4563]

My, my....we down to name calling now 🙁

Those who are not board certified are folks who don't have the work ethic or work habit that gets you through the certification process....those same work ethic and habits make you a better physician.

Im not name calling...... i just called you a snob.. If i were to call you aname that would be different.. Im professional and you are entitled to your opinion.. Im saying that because there are people like you who exist.. the system will NEVER change.. It will be the same old frustrating system. I read a lot for my boards.. DO i think its requisite to being a good and conscientious physician. No i dont. DO i think its expensive .. hell yes.. do i think people are making out on us yes.. there is a whole industry for review.. whats that about??????

 

[Justin4563]

Your unhappiness essentially boils down to this statement. The doctors aren't keeping you off the medical staff. The hospital is....the hospital AND surgeons, who bring patients to the hospital, allow the "exclusive contracts". The hospital and surgeons want "groups" to provide services....not cowboys who ride into and out of town at their convenience.

If you're telling me that the hospitals don't want this arrangement, then why do they offer such contracts....why do they look for such contracts.

Your beef is with the wrong group of people.

I wasnt saying in anesthesia per se.. although it happens like that in groups too.. if they dont like you .. you wont work there.. plain and simple.. It doesnt matter if you invented anesthesia.. IF there is no connection.. No work there.. I think thats unreasonable.. IF you show adequate credentials with no malpractice lawsuits.. I think the h ospital should grant you priveleges... It happens in surgery a lot.. A group of surgeons will lobby to keep other groups or individuals off staff so they get the lions share of the work in the hospital. That should be criminal activity.. IT happens all the time.. I say the more physicians who want to be on staff the better. and the patients will decide.. or in our case the surgeons will decide who gets the cases...

 

[militarymd]

I read a lot for my boards.. DO i think its requisite to being a good and conscientious physician. No i dont

Good physicians who don't need to read or study....what a novel concept.

Unfortunately, I and the majority of the physicians out there believe in reading, studying, CME, etc.

I guess the system will never change....most of us expect our physicians to read, continue to read, and I guess show that we read.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

First off, I want to apologize to ThinkFast007 for the redirection of this thread.

As for the last arguments made by Justin, old school is not what you see in anesthesiology training programs and the ASA/ABA today. Old school is a constant litany of negative feedback designed to beat you out of your training program, beat the joy out of your training program, or just plain beat you out of the program. It is a system designed to turn you into a cynical, sarcastic curmudgeon whose only joy is beating the joy out of other people. Is that what you really think the ASA/ABA and the docs here are all about?

My mindset is the same as Military and Jet's: We need to remain vigilant and we need a process by which we can at least try to ensure minimum educational standards. Do those who pass these tests suddenly become more conscientious than those who don't? Of course not. That would be an exceedingly silly assertion. Does passage of these tests improve our clinical knowledge and skills? As Military's experience attests to, the answer is predominantly yes.

As for having to spend ten thousand dollars to be a member of our medical organizations, the amount is far from that assertion. In fact, it's not even in the thousands. Annual membership in the ASA is exactly $200 with some extra recognition for donating more money. That's a far cry from thousands of dollars.

It is obvious that you have pushed yourself enough to become fully certified in anesthesiology. If all programs provided a good to excellent didactic and clinical experience that could be standardized to ensure equality of training, the boards would be unnecessary. Do you feel we are at that juncture especially in light of the number of programs that have recently been placed on probation or have lost their accreditation, which by the way is governed by the ACGME, not the ASA?

If you feel that physicians foster an environment of hostility and backstabbing with each other, then again I ask you to become involved and do something about it. If you think the CRNA's have it licked, then find out what you feel is the reason you see it that way and kick it out for the rest of us to consider. Obviously it is not membership and financial support of your main professional society. Maybe it is the thought of going to a 6 times a year board exam that isn't as comprehensive as the current exam. I don't care what it is, just be as active in the dynamics of our profession in as vocal and visible a way as you are trying to be here in this thread.

Just don't be the anonymous voice in a room full of noise.

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Duplicate

 

[Justin4563]

i cant be vocal in the asa because it will cost me a few hundred dollars and i dont feel like lining someones pocket since Ive lined a lot of peoples pocket over the years. Id rather spend that money for my gym membership and some baseball box seats.. ya'll can piss the specialty down the toilet if you want. DO it without me.. Ill continue to put as many people to sleep as possible and retire as soon as possible.

 

[jwk]

i cant be vocal in the asa because it will cost me a few hundred dollars and i dont feel like lining someones pocket since Ive lined a lot of peoples pocket over the years. Id rather spend that money for my gym membership and some baseball box seats.. ya'll can piss the specialty down the toilet if you want. DO it without me.. Ill continue to put as many people to sleep as possible and retire as soon as possible.

I'm still trying to figure out whose pockets are being lined. None of the officers and directors at the national or state level are. That's usually the case in most professional organizations. They might pay some meeting and travel expenses, but that doesn't even begin to count the time away from doing what YOU prefer to do - make money.

The ABA, like other specialty boards, is self-supporting. It can remain in existence only by charging fees that cover the costs associated with the exam. Even us AA's get hit with exam costs - $1200 for our initial certification exam, and $600 every 6th year for a recertification exam. I scream every 6th year writing that check.

There is paid staff for the ASA office in Chicago, as well as the legislative office in DC. Your annual dues pays for those folks, plus, it includes subscriptions to both Anesthesiology and the ASA Newsletter , and FREE registration to the Annual Meeting each year (non-members pay about $450, CRNA's $300). Membership is a bargain.

Getting involved financially is not that big a burden for anyone. Resident dues are minimal, and full membership isn't bad either for what you get. Those of you in practice are certainly making more than I am, and I'm a member of the ASA, GSA, and AAAA (the AA professional association). I'm a member of the ASA and GSA, even though they are physician organizations, because they support ME, an AA, as well as anesthesiologists.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

This thread is becoming very painful to read.

 

[ThinkFast007]

First off, I want to apologize to ThinkFast007 for the redirection of this thread.

.

no apologies necessary man.

Although I'm terribly busy with my rotation right now, i'm sure when i'm done with it, i'll read the extensive arguments everyone is making here for and against the ASA. I guess the good part of this thread is that it brings together various perspectives on this issue of the ASA, which normally are not thought about.

One love

 

[redstorm]

First off, I want to apologize to ThinkFast007 for the redirection of this thread.

As for the last arguments made by Justin, old school is not what you see in anesthesiology training programs and the ASA/ABA today. Old school is a constant litany of negative feedback designed to beat you out of your training program, beat the joy out of your training program, or just plain beat you out of the program. It is a system designed to turn you into a cynical, sarcastic curmudgeon whose only joy is beating the joy out of other people. Is that what you really think the ASA/ABA and the docs here are all about?

My mindset is the same as Military and Jet's: We need to remain vigilant and we need a process by which we can at least try to ensure minimum educational standards. Do those who pass these tests suddenly become more conscientious than those who don't? Of course not. That would be an exceedingly silly assertion. Does passage of these tests improve our clinical knowledge and skills? As Military's experience attests to, the answer is predominantly yes.

As for having to spend ten thousand dollars to be a member of our medical organizations, the amount is far from that assertion. In fact, it's not even in the thousands. Annual membership in the ASA is exactly $200 with some extra recognition for donating more money. That's a far cry from thousands of dollars.

It is obvious that you have pushed yourself enough to become fully certified in anesthesiology. If all programs provided a good to excellent didactic and clinical experience that could be standardized to ensure equality of training, the boards would be unnecessary. Do you feel we are at that juncture especially in light of the number of programs that have been recently been placed on probation or have lost their accreditation, which by the way is governed by the ACGME, not the ASA?

If you feel that physicians foster an environment of hostility and backstabbing with each other, then again I ask you to become involved and do something about it. If you think the CRNA's have it licked, then find out what you feel is the reason you see it that way and kick it out for the rest of us to consider. Obviously it is not membership and financial support of your main professional society. Maybe it is the thought of going to a 6 times a year board exam that isn't as comprehensive as the current exam. I don't care what it is, just be as active in the dynamics of our profession in as vocal and visible a way as you are trying to be here in this thread.

Just don't be the anonymous voice in a room full of noise.

Hey UT I saw in another thread you took the writtens over the weekend..... thank god im threw with that ****.. now was it fair tell me//

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Hey UT I saw in another thread you took the writtens over the weekend..... thank god im threw with that ****.. now was it fair tell me//

It was pretty damn hard. I thought last year's test was a chip shot and the morning portion of the day wasn't too bad, but the afternoon session had more second and third level questions covering a lot of topics. The hardest questions I thought were the choose the best/least/etc. type of questions because at least three questions had different answers if you were to look at different texts. However, if you looked at the clinical scenario they presented, you probably could eliminate one.

Overall, I know I didn't get a 45 and I am hoping to just pass. I think the test covered a wide enough variety of topics to be reasonably representative, although this year, there were maybe only 2 or 3 questions on circle systems and none on Mapleson circuits.

There were only two questions on statistics which suprised me since I thought they were going to place more of an emphasis on that this year.

As a side note, I wonder if the same test will be given to those people who will be taking it on July 30 because of the hurricane in the gulf. That might be advantageous to those people because they could harvest some questions from colleagues in other states. I wonder if they will then grade them separately because of that.

 

[Justin4563]

It was pretty damn hard. I thought last year's test was a chip shot and the morning portion of the day wasn't too bad, but the afternoon session had more second and third level questions covering a lot of topics. The hardest questions I thought were the choose the best/least/etc. type of questions because at least three questions had different answers if you were to look at different texts. However, if you looked at the clinical scenario they presented, you probably could eliminate one.

Overall, I know I didn't get a 45 and I am hoping to just pass. I think the test covered a wide enough variety of topics to be reasonably representative, although this year, there were maybe only 2 or 3 questions on circle systems and none on Mapleson circuits.

There were only two questions on statistics which suprised me since I thought they were going to place more of an emphasis on that this year.

As a side note, I wonder if the same test will be given to those people who will be taking it on June 30 because of the hurricane in the gulf. That might be advantageous to those people because they could harvest some questions from colleagues in other states. I wonder if they will then grade them separately because of that.

yeah i bet it was pretty damn hard.. sounds like it was... are you taking it for certification now or is this your last ite

 

[UTSouthwestern]

yeah i bet it was pretty damn hard.. sounds like it was... are you taking it for certification now or is this your last ite

Justin, it was definitely an *** kicker and I got mine kicked. Of course, unfortunately, I took it for real this year. 😱

 

[VentdependenT]

lmao, Dude!

Guess whose department gave him time off to go to the ASA this year in N'awlins? I got first round!

 

[me454555]

I'm a 3rd year who wants to go to this conference. I'm not a member of the ASA yet b/c I can't find a sponser. My hospital does not have an anesthesia dept so its hard for me to find someone to sign for me. Can find any MD/DO to be a sponser or do they have to be an anesthesiologist?