Asian or White

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marymatthews

marymatthews

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I will not be changing my ethnicity in order to better my chances. I had this discussion with my Asian friend and I just want to settle the debate. I am just very curious, because I keep hearing opposing arguments.
 
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poor bastards. this is why I'm grateful to be a Guatemalan pituitary giant. good luck beating me out.
 
failed_2.jpg
 
For medical school, same standard applied to everyone, it is about who you are and if your interviewer like you.
 
You can never go wrong when identifying yourself as white.
 
Good thing there are interviews and "other schools to apply to" that make this question moot.

Really, don't worry about it. Just put together a solid application and make sure to kill 'em during your interviews.
 
I could totally pass by identifying myself as being white. I'll just have to list yoga, listening to black music black people don't like anymore, going to whole foods, and reading the Sunday NYTimes as my EC's.






For those who didn't get the joke and going to jump up in fury, this is from stuffwhitepeoplelike.com :laugh:
 
marymatthews said:
I will not be changing my ethnicity in order to better my chances. I had this discussion with my Asian friend and I just want to settle the debate. I am just very curious, because I keep hearing opposing arguments.
So, who would have an easier time getting into medical school, an applicant with the ethnicity of Asian or White?
Let's say there are two applicants with the exact same stats, the only difference between them is their ethnicity. Will the Asian student be picked over the White, or vice versa? My Asian friend says there are quotas for ethnic groups for every school and there is more competition among the Asian ethnic group. So I am just wondering who has an easier/harder situation.
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Aside from any stereotypes that may be applied to you by the interviewer (which probably won't exist to any existent in the vast majority of cases), you have equal chances as a white or Asian applicant. Only ones with different chances are URM.
 
Narmerguy said:
Aside from any stereotypes that may be applied to you by the interviewer (which probably won't exist to any existent in the vast majority of cases), you have equal chances as a white or Asian applicant. Only ones with different chances are URM.
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I somewhat think medical schools profile other ethnicity's as well as URM ones. I mean personally at my state Asian pre-meds dominate in sheer mass. Now by the same logic as why URM's were even created ( to reflect the population) you wouldn't want 80% of medical students being Asian when they are just 10% of the population.
Of course however this is just speculation.
 
chinocochino said:
Whoa, whoa. Just look at the GPA and MCAT data for accepted MD applicants from different races, they are VERY different depending on the ethnicity.

To the OP, the whites and asians had very similar stats. I would say its about the same.

This post might annoy some people, but the evidence doesn't lie. 😎

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table25-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt-raceeth.htm

Compare the above link with the white/asian stats.
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Wow someone got in with a GPA between 1.47 and 1.99 and had an MCAT between 15 and 17. There is officially hope for everyone 😀
 
serenade said:
I somewhat think medical schools profile other ethnicity's as well as URM ones. I mean personally at my state Asian pre-meds dominate in sheer mass. Now by the same logic as why URM's were even created ( to reflect the population) you wouldn't want 80% of medical students being Asian when they are just 10% of the population.
Of course however this is just speculation.
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I suppose this is possible, however, I find it highly unlikely and only possible in really extreme cases. The legality of what is done for URM is easier to justify than giving "black marks" against another race, and hardly necessary. Most studies show that Whites feel perfectly comfortable with Asians and Asians in America are marrying and living with white almost at an equal rate that they do with themselves (sociology minor, not pulling this stuff out my anus).

Point of all this is that there is not the same distrust and barriers of understanding between Asians/Whites as there are between most URM and other ethnicities and because of this, most patients would not feel the slightest bit different if they were seen by an Asian doctor rather than a White one. This is the reason that I highly doubt there will ever be an attempt to more closely force the Asian med student % match their population %'s (this is without even addressing my personal preferences or the legality of it all). What is done for URMs is already hard fought enough.
 
Ok who would have an easier time getting into medical school, an applicant with the ethnicity of Asian or White?
 
marymatthews said:
Ok who would have an easier time getting into medical school, an applicant with the ethnicity of Asian or White?
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Did you not get the suggestion that you're asking a pretty stupid question? There's no way anyone can answer that. You got pointed to some data about acceptance rates amongst the different ethnicities. That's all you're going to get.
 
those statistics are pretty unsettling. I'm all for giving someone a chance, but I don't like the idea of subpar students becoming doctors so schools can rave about how diverse their student body is. there's something fundamentally wrong with this.
 
Chevy Chase Fan said:
those statistics are pretty unsettling. I'm all for giving someone a chance, but I don't like the idea of subpar students becoming doctors so schools can rave about how diverse their student body is. there's something fundamentally wrong with this.
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woow there buddy, just because they have lower GPAs or MCATs does not mean they would be terrible doctors. These things are only a portion of an applicant. Furthermore, URMs have these stats in part due to extenuating factors like poverty, etc. What everyone seems to forget is even if you get in with lower stats your grades DURING med school will not be any different than your 4.0/40 MCAT peers. EVERYONE has to pass the USMLE 1,2 and 3 and if they can do that THEY ARE QUALIFIED to be doctors. MCAT/GPA means **** when it comes to actually BEING a doctor so let's just cut that **** out now.
 
Ischemic said:
woow there buddy, just because they have lower GPAs or MCATs does not mean they would be terrible doctors. These things are only a portion of an applicant. Furthermore, URMs have these stats in part due to extenuating factors like poverty, etc. What everyone seems to forget is even if you get in with lower stats your grades DURING med school will not be any different than your 4.0/40 MCAT peers. EVERYONE has to pass the USMLE 1,2 and 3 and if they can do that THEY ARE QUALIFIED to be doctors. MCAT/GPA means **** when it comes to actually BEING a doctor so let's just cut that **** out now.
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:laugh:
 
Ischemic said:
woow there buddy, just because they have lower GPAs or MCATs does not mean they would be terrible doctors. These things are only a portion of an applicant. Furthermore, URMs have these stats in part due to extenuating factors like poverty, etc. What everyone seems to forget is even if you get in with lower stats your grades DURING med school will not be any different than your 4.0/40 MCAT peers. EVERYONE has to pass the USMLE 1,2 and 3 and if they can do that THEY ARE QUALIFIED to be doctors. MCAT/GPA means **** when it comes to actually BEING a doctor so let's just cut that **** out now.
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👍

How soon people forget that we're not even close to starting with equal opportunity...smh...white privilege at it's best
 
:smack: are you serious?

Unless if you are URM it isn't going to matter that much...
 
Ischemic said:
woow there buddy, just because they have lower GPAs or MCATs does not mean they would be terrible doctors. These things are only a portion of an applicant. Furthermore, URMs have these stats in part due to extenuating factors like poverty, etc. What everyone seems to forget is even if you get in with lower stats your grades DURING med school will not be any different than your 4.0/40 MCAT peers. EVERYONE has to pass the USMLE 1,2 and 3 and if they can do that THEY ARE QUALIFIED to be doctors. MCAT/GPA means **** when it comes to actually BEING a doctor so let's just cut that **** out now.
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tell that to an adcom...i don't think they would agree with you.
 
chinocochino said:
Well, not ALL white people (or Asian, for that matter) are privileged. Some are dirt-poor or have to work at mom's restaurant while taking 18 credits a semester. Some are immigrants that don't even have family in the country, working full-time while in school. It would be best to say, "In GENERAL...."
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I don't think you understand what white privilege means.
 
Mbeas said:
tell that to an adcom...i don't think they would agree with you.
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I would beg to differ..and I think an adcom would simply not want to admit it. If that were completely true, all the GPAs and MCATs of matriculants would be a LOT higher than they are.

That being said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's important to first establish criteria for what makes a good physician. On the basis of academic intelligence, I would contend that a high mcat/gpa is going to be ONE of the several indicatosr of the ability of a student to do WELL in medical school. Moving onto another criteria, such as compassion or empathy, a high score in the mcat/gpa scale likely has no correlation to that.

I think adcoms want to filter out low scoring students simply so that they can ensure a matriculant will be able to handle the demands of a medical school education, but in the big picture, they also want people who are compassionate, caring, and will make a good physician with whom patients will actually be satisfied and WANT to see. Nobody would want to visit an asshat who has a terrible personality, even if he got a 4.0/40 in his undergraduate, especially if someone with a 3.5/30 with an amazing, warm, charming personality was able to treat this patient...Adcoms realize this and for that reason, they choose a diverse student body without making it a "requirement" that the student had HIGH stats.
 
Mbeas said:
tell that to an adcom...i don't think they would agree with you.
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The reason that adcoms care about GPA/MCAT is that it means you're able to handle the rigors of medical school, not whether or not you will be an amazing doctor, which is what I stipulated. Yes, a doctor must be knowledgeable but you know what? That's measured by the USMLE step 1,2 and 3. Which if you had read my post as a whole and not focus on small aspects you would see that I've already addressed this issue. If they can pass the steps then they ARE qualified physicians REGARDLESS of what they scored on their MCATs or their GPA in college. Med school is a huge money investment schools put on their student and to have them fail out the first 2 years, where most do, because they can't handle the workload is a loss on their investment. Mind you, roughly 5-10% of each class fail or repeat and we're not just talking URMs, which you seem to question their academic ability but 3.5+/30+ MCAT kids too. But that's ok premed, you believe what you want. I'm telling you how it is from the other side.
 
Ischemic said:
Mind you, roughly 5-10% of each class fail or repeat and we're not just talking URMs, which you seem to question their academic ability but 3.5+/30+ MCAT kids too. But that's ok premed, you believe what you want. I'm telling you how it is from the other side.
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rock it, isch.
 
Ischemic said:
The reason that adcoms care about GPA/MCAT is that it means you're able to handle the rigors of medical school, not whether or not you will be an amazing doctor, which is what I stipulated. Yes, a doctor must be knowledgeable but you know what? That's measured by the USMLE step 1,2 and 3. Which if you had read my post as a whole and not focus on small aspects you would see that I've already addressed this issue. If they can pass the steps then they ARE qualified physicians REGARDLESS of what they scored on their MCATs or their GPA in college. Med school is a huge money investment schools put on their student and to have them fail out the first 2 years, where most do, because they can't handle the workload is a loss on their investment. Mind you, roughly 5-10% of each class fail or repeat and we're not just talking URMs, which you seem to question their academic ability but 3.5+/30+ MCAT kids too. But that's ok premed, you believe what you want. I'm telling you how it is from the other side.
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Oh so knowledgeable medical student, please forgive me. I was simply pointing out one part of your post. I didn't disagree with the rest of it, just the bolded part. I don't know how you could say that an adcom doesn't care about GPA/MCAT. They obviously do, or people with 2.5 GPA/15 MCAT would be admitted regularly. You stated that "MCAT/GPA means **** when it comes to actually BEING a doctor". Too bad you have to get into medical school and successfully complete it to actually BE a doctor. Most people don't get into medical school with poor stats, and thus don't become doctors.

And I by NO means doubted or even implied that I doubted the academic ability of URM's, so please refrain from making false accusations/assumptions in the future. I completely agree with you though when you say that the MCAT/GPA doesn't reflect the personality or care the doctor will give the patient. That is where the other aspects (EC's, URM status, etc.) come into play.
 
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Mbeas said:
Oh so knowledgeable medical student, please forgive me. I was simply pointing out one part of your post. I didn't disagree with the rest of it, just the bolded part. I don't know how you could say that an adcom doesn't care about GPA/MCAT. They obviously do, or people with 2.5 GPA/15 MCAT would be admitted regularly. You stated that "MCAT/GPA means **** when it comes to actually BEING a doctor". Too bad you have to get into medical school and successfully complete it to actually BE a doctor. Most people don't get into medical school with poor stats, and thus don't become doctors.

And I by NO means doubted or even implied that I doubted the academic ability of URM's, so please refrain from making false accusations/assumptions in the future. I completely agree with you though when you say that the MCAT/GPA doesn't reflect the personality or care the doctor will give the patient. That is where the other aspects (EC's, etc.) come into play.
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I see where the misunderstanding came from. Unfortunately for you I've seen way to many of these threads about GPA/MCATs eventually boil down to bitching about URMs getting into medical school with lower stats and eventually questioning their ability as doctors. Your initial response definitely had that feel and so I responded to nip it at the bud. Since you don't feel that way, I guess we're good. Hopefully it'll enlighten someone else that may have that feeling.

Oh yeah, should you enter medical school you should be ready to have you status on the proverbial medical totem pole be used as an insult by someone higher up. Example "what the hell do you know, you're only a ****ing med student" or "you useless resident, get out the way". So learn to develop thicker skin and bite the bullet especially when you get smashed for something you dont know at your level.
 
Ischemic said:
I see where the misunderstanding came from. Unfortunately for you I've seen way to many of these threads about GPA/MCATs eventually boil down to bitching about URMs getting into medical school with lower stats and eventually questioning their ability as doctors. Your initial response definitely had that feel and so I responded to nip it at the bud. Since you don't feel that way, I guess we're good. Hopefully it'll enlighten someone else that may have that feeling.

Oh yeah, should you enter medical school you should be ready to have you status on the proverbial medical totem pole be used as an insult by someone higher up. Example "what the hell do you know, you're only a ****ing med student" or "you useless resident, get out the way". So learn to develop thicker skin and bite the bullet especially when you get smashed for something you dont know at your level.
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Oh trust me, I have realized my status at the absolute BOTTOM of the totem pole already as a pre-med. Of course I have much respect for you as a medical student, so I apologize for coming off strong like I did. I just feel that some people forget that they were once in my shoes (pre-med). It reminds me of seniors in college who hate the freshmen, when they were in their shoes 4 years ago. But yea, I won't make that attitude clear when I am with residents or people of higher status in the future.
 
chinocochino said:
Aight. Then tell me what IS "white privilege." Its not a fair world for a lot of people, including whites, blacks, asians, native americans, people of different religions.
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Sorry but hearing this argument made that white's have it as bad as the rest of the world's ethnicities is a little humorous. I'm not saying all people don't have hardship, because anyone can have it. But if you're going to compare races, I don't think there's much sympathy for whites compared to what most other ethnicities have faced...often at the hands of whites.

Thus the whole "White Guilt" notion.
 
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